Psychiatry drugs and Religion

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ElizaE

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I’m a med student doing my Psych rotation right now. I have to say that it is a very interesting rotation.

I was just wondering how different religions view the mind and psychiatric drugs? We already heard some things from Tome Cruise. When I heard what he had to say, I really wanted to lock him up in our in patient unit with his treadmill and vitamins and see how far that could go 🙂 . But it got me thinking about which religions feel that psychiatric illnesses are valid and which do not.

God bless
 
the Church of Scientology(of which Tom Cruise is a member of), believes that the treatments used to treat psychiatric are, in many cases, overused. This is especially the case with depression, and in children. Schools and parents are quick to recommend drugs, when there are other methods that could be used. I do think that Cruise took our position to an extreme. However, we shouldn’t always be quick to medicate.

How were your psych rotations? I’m a pre-med college student, and I’ve always thought about psychiatry as a field of practice, but I’m also thinking of radiology and pediatrics. lol basically, I’ll wait until i’m in med school to fully decide.

On the mind, well, Scientology basically focuses on the study of the mind. A part of the Scientology religion is Dianetics, which focuses on the mind, mental health, etc.
dianetics.org/
The first book on this science of the mind is called Dianetics:The Modern Science of Mental Health
 
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Thetan:
the Church of Scientology(of which Tom Cruise is a member of), believes that the treatments used to treat psychiatric are, in many cases, overused. This is especially the case with depression, and in children. Schools and parents are quick to recommend drugs, when there are other methods that could be used. I do think that Cruise took our position to an extreme. However, we shouldn’t always be quick to medicate.
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Forgive my ignorance but I thought they actually believed those drugs should never be used. Under what conditions does Scientology accept the use of drugs by psychiatrists? I could find none on the sites you listed. (I also thought they rejected modern psychiatry in toto .)

Thanks,

David
 
no, according to the What is Scientology? book, Scientology does allow for the use of drugs recommended by doctors to treat various diseases. If not, then i’m making a mistake pursing a medical career,lol.
Scientology is very skeptical of psychiatry, in that many psychiatrists focus on medicating every patient, or simply looking at drugs as the only or first solution to psychiatric problems, without looking at the entire situation. Scientologists are against the unnecessary and forced use of drugs in children in various cases that I’m sure we all know about. People rely way too much on ritalin and other drugs when dealing with children who might not even need them. That is what Scientology sees, and many others do as well.
 
Scientology is also concerned with psychiatry’s denial of the spirit and religious experience. If religious experience is believed in, it is caused by various chemical responses, neurotransmitters, etc. in the brain, not by an external force, being, etc.(ie. God). Scientology therefore is very skeptical of psychiatry in that regard. Sure, various treatments do work, however they are overused in various cases, and psychiatry as an overall practice, denies the existence of religious experience.
 
I do not believe that is correct. In every case that we saw in our clinics and in-patient settings we always asked the patient about their Religious beliefs and if they were part of a church. The support system that a church can give is very powerful and beneficial and many psychiatrist are very open and encouraging for their patients to have a religious life. I thought I would chime in and say what actually occurs in the clinics.

By the way, I saw the worst of the worst. I have not doubt in my mind that these people needed to be on medicaiton.
 
Oh yes, I don’t deny the efficacy of psychotropic drugs, and I do know that doctors as a whole, in various situations, ask the patient about their religious beliefs. However, in varous textbooks I’ve seen(can’t remember them off the top of my head, but a few years ago I was interested in how meditation and psychology relate, and i think i found a text called Psychology and Religion), they talk about how religious experience is a result of various brain activities(lol maybe I should’ve paid attention in behavioral neuroscience last semester,lol j/k). So yes, I recognize the validity and efficacy of psychotropic drugs and that psychiatrists and physicians as a whole question about the religious beliefs of the patient, however the above is also true to a degree. It is also true that some psychiatrists and various institutions use drugs in various situations that might not warrant the use of drugs, or at least the dosage.

Ok, no more responses until Sat the latest, sorry.
 
I think that psychiatric drugs are overused, and that society and churches “push” them, because they falsly think that it is an easier way to deal with people’s hurt than to give them real time consuming human support.

There are cases in which these drugs are neccessary and good, but the word on the street now for anyone feeling down over anything is “are you taking something?” and if you say no, well then, why should anyone bother to take time with you if you wont “help yourself”. But these drugs have affects and side effects that makes them quite different from taking aspirin for the occasional headache, and can have profound effects on a person’s life, and yes, their spiritual life.

I was put on drugs for depression, and told that I should pretty much stay on them forever because I probably had a chemical imbalance that made me prone to depression. These drugs made me manic, but no one paid attention because I wasn’t depressed anymore. Mania does not equal happy, it does have other classic symptoms, aggitation, over confidence, belief in infallibility, high sex drive, feelings of invincibility etc. But hey, I wasn’t depressed… I nearly ruined my life, marriage, spiritual life, etc, but hey, at least I wasn’t depressed. And people weren’t bothered to feel like they needed to support me and find out how I was doing, so they were releived, the drug let them off the hook!

I got myself off the meds. Everyone told me I’d be sorry, and how “bad” I was not to take my happy pills, and don’t expect them to bail me out when I felt down when I wouldn’t comply with treatment…8 years and counting! Sure, I get down sometimes. I have two really scary depressive episodes during that time, but that still leaves me with about 7 years of good fruitful life, which I would not have had on the meds. They left me feeling crappy both physically and mentally almost all the time, and drained my family’s limited budget (the docs always prescribe the “newest” drug, which has no generic and the ins. co doesn’t pay for yet!)

I’ve gotten my family and spiritual life back into shape

I listen to the gals at work discuss these drugs and which mixture they are on as if they are talking about a new brand of paper towel. Here is a quote " I wasnt’ feeling depressed, but I asked the doctor for something to make me feel happier. He gave me “name of drug here” and, well, I think I might be sleeping better…" Why turn to family, friends, or faith when we can find salvation in a little pill! Why make any effort at all when we can talk the doc into giving us meds we don’t need?

Why inspect our souls and make changes in our lives when we can blame anything and everything on “chemistry” and get a pill instead?

I can’t believe the chemical cocktails the women I work with are on, and most of them claim they have never experienced a true episode of depression, but then, why wait? Why not head it off at the pass?

Is this the meaning of life?

I think all religions need to look long and hard at the misuse of psychiatric drugs. Much of the time, true support and fellowship could do more with fewer side effects. Let’s help one another face life with grace and courage.

cheddar
 
I support Eliza here. As a mental health social worker here in UK, who has extensive experience of both Forensic as well as ordianry major mental illness I can tell you I have met many, extremely ill (and sometimes dangerous) people who most definitely benefitted from Psychotropic medications. The ones now on the market and which are rapidly becoming the drug of choice so far as prescribing Doctors are concerned are amazingly good with little side-effects.

So far as conditions such as Schizophrenia are concerned, a non drug alternative is simply not realistic. Talking therapies are totally ineffectual with Schizophrenia as research from the (UK) National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) proves.

What is effective with Schizophrenia is information and coaching on ‘illness management’, using Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy (CBT) to build up awareness in the ill person concerning their illness,including their own particular ‘warning signs’ and reasons why they need to continue taking the medication.

Regarding religions and being members of faith communities. Can only be a good thing for the patient. The more support and validation the better. Too often mentally ill people are marginalised and socially excluded to their detriment.

Although I have worked with many Psychiatrists who were atheist or humanist in outlook I don’t remember many of them being rabidly anti-church or anti-religious where patients were concerned. It only does good if the patient is part of some community other than ‘the mad’.
 
I never wanted to make this thread a pro or anti psychiatric drug treatment thread. I was just trying to understand how different faiths view psychiatric drugs.

The psychiatrist that I work with see the most acute and troublesome cases. Most are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, manic. We also see people that are substance abusers that would benefit from rehab and staying clean. Usually after 90 days their brain chemistry goes back to normal. One thing about psychiatric drugs and any drugs is that a person can chose to take them or not take them. People with schizophrenia chose not to take their drugs quite often and so they end up in a psych ward until they are stable and then they are sent out into the world again. Many of these people are very dangerous.

I wanted to get this thread back on track and ask how other religions view psych drugs.
 
Dear ElizaE,

I do understand what you are asking.

The difficulty is, for someone who is truely mentally ill [me]
it’s like asking:
What do different religions think of diabetes? high blood
pressure? and the medications used to treat these?
It’s an interesting sociological question, I’ll admit.
But, somehow, it doesn’t resonate with me.:o

For me, the illness is a reality, whatever a given religious
group “thinks” about it.
What most people know about mental illness [or the
medications used to treat same] could be accomodated
inside a martini olive.🙂
Just my thought. I wish you the best in getting a solid
answer to your question.

reen12
 
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ElizaE:
I never wanted to make this thread a pro or anti psychiatric drug treatment thread. I was just trying to understand how different faiths view psychiatric drugs.

The psychiatrist that I work with see the most acute and troublesome cases. Most are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, manic. We also see people that are substance abusers that would benefit from rehab and staying clean. Usually after 90 days their brain chemistry goes back to normal. One thing about psychiatric drugs and any drugs is that a person can chose to take them or not take them. People with schizophrenia chose not to take their drugs quite often and so they end up in a psych ward until they are stable and then they are sent out into the world again. Many of these people are very dangerous.

I wanted to get this thread back on track and ask how other religions view psych drugs.
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I have often wondered why meds for Schizoid patients are not administered like depo provera, inbedded so the patient gets them without having to remember etc.

Any ideas on that?

cheddar
 
Schizoid personality disorder and Schizophrenia a very different thing. Schizoid is a personality disorder where the person in very isolated and does not feel a need to associate with other people. They are loners and they like it, and they are not psychotic. Schizophrenia is a different disease where the person hear voices and has delusions among other things.

First of all they do have injections that last 2 weeks at a time and sometimes the courts can mandate these for the most severly ill patients esp if the patients do not think that they have a problem. However, mentally ill people have rights as well and one of those rights is whether they will or won’t take medications. It is a problem especially because once they are on their medication, their thinking becomes clearer and they do not hear voices any more and think that they are ok and stop taking their medicine. They then do something “crazy” or “scary”. Then, they are taken to an (name removed by moderator)atient unit where the doctors will stabilize them again and send them out again because that is the law. There a very few people that can be pernamently institutionalized. The law only alows people to be court ordered into a mental institution for 90 days at the most.

Mental illness is a disease just like heart disease or diabetes. It is a struggle for these patients because many of them want to be able to get a job and have a family. It is especially heart breaking to see a 21 year old with his first psychotic break and wonder how his life will turn out. I did not want to imply that it is not an illness. I just wanted to understand how other religions view a mental illness because that will help me better understand how to explain it to different people.

God bless

PS, can you imagine asking a patient who has delusions about the FBI and other people being after them to implant a device into them. Not that easy.
 
I didn’t know the difference between schizoid and schizophrenic, thanks for clearing that up.

I also had not thought about the paranoid aspect, good point. But I wonder if some would not OK the meds, as some comply and take their meds…until they don’t. so maybe they would comply with an implant. I really don’t know. I have very little experience with schizophrenia, I was thinking (out my butt perhaps), that is all.

I do have experience with mental illness and am VERY grateful that patients do have rights and appreciate how hard fought and won they were. I would not at all want to take them away, but some people would welcome an easier/accurate way to take their meds. At least I’ve had this talk with others and they felt it would be a help, as well as (most likely) a big money saver. But, as I mentioned, these folks were not schizophrenic.

I have been a member of the United Church of Christ, and they support psychiatry and psychiatric meds as a valid and God given way of helping mankind.

cheddar
 
Hey there Eliza,

Hopefully what I have to say will be on topic but first I’d like to say, that I’m a med student as well and I’ll be starting my clinical rotations monday! (third year). PM me if you’d like. I’ve always been curious about psychiatry and what that rotation will be like.

Now to the question.

I have some experience with charismatic non-denom churches and with the Word of Faith movement. Many Christians that gravitate toward these circles view psychiatric illnesses as oppressions of the devil - not necessarily possesions, mind you, but oppressions. But I’m not going to get into what they say the difference between the two is, you may have heard of it already anyway. In addition, they view psychiatric drugs as unnecessary, for you if you pray enough or someone prays over you (loudly and aggressively usually) the demons will leave you alone, and you won’t have to take anything. I find it sort of interesting that these same people can be pretty darned compliant with their blood pressure pills, for example.

So my comments stray from your question just a bit - because it’s not a separate religion actually that I speak of, simply yet another cluster of Christians who have very similar beliefs. Many of these believe that the afflicted will never find relief from drugs, only prayer and casting out the devil. :ehh:
 
The term “mental illness” is an interesting one.

It’s likely, I think, that within 15 years, technology will
provide clear evidence of:

-brain structure issues
-neurotransmitter deficiencies…*exact *information on which
neurotransmitters are affected, and to what degree,
so that medications can be developed that are “tailor made”
to correct these difficencies

Why not call it “neurobiological disorder” rather than
“mental illness.” ? A much less emotive…and loaded…term.

I’m closing in on age 60. I’m here to tell you that what
the medical community now understands about “mental
illness” is light-years in advance over what it knew 40
years ago…trust me, I was there.🙂

And…some of the dearest, kindest people I ever met
were patients on a psyche ward where I was also a
patient for 12 days, ten years ago.

And, for those doing rotation on these units, I have
read over 15,000 pages of psychological texts etc.
So please don’t be tempted to jump to the conclusion
that patients do not necessarily understand the issues.

And for those Christians who are devotees of “demonic oppression” -yeah…right. And the tooth fairy puts a quarter under
our pillow when we lose a tooth, too, I suppose.

Look at it this way, if you will:

A person spends 70 years as an active and loving member
of family and community. Altzheimer’s takes hold,
and within a period of time, halluncination’s and delusions
occur. Hopefully, loving care is extended to this family
member *.
No one suggests “demonic oppression” in this scenario,
right? Then why do some assume that when a 20 year
old is “seeing things” the ol’ devil is at work? That poor
kid has developed a neurobiological disorder…say,
schizophrenia or another illness.

And for those doing or about to do rotations, may I
humbly suggest that when the DSM is revised,
schizotypal disorder be taken out of the personality
disorder “category” and placed in the “schizophrenia
spectrum” area. [Just a thought:) ]

reen12*
 
I have an anxiety disorder, and from what I understand it is hereditary. This is different from generalized anxiety induced by stress, and it manifests itself in very strange ways.

For example I will experience a difficulty and as a defense mechanism, I won’t allow myself to “go there” again. Once while taking a left handed turn I got caught by the light in the middle of traffic and was stressed out by all the honking and cussing and had an anxiety attack…after that experience I would only take right hand turns. I would go all the way around the block to get anywhere by only taking right handed turns (did you know you can go anywhere taking only right hand turns…lol)

There are stranger manifestations than that one…but it is embarrassing so I won’t divulge…But…on medication…it is controllable

In my case, I finally have acknowledged that I will be on medication forever. When I was twenty-six I heard this for the first time and resisted (who wants to be on meds. for LIFE)…I thought I could manage myself…but what I found is that at thirty-six…I have no stress in my life…three great kids, a beautiful home, wonderful husband, no financial worries…and it was still there. Not allowing me to feel the happiness that G-d has blessed me with.

I gave in and am on medication…but I can take left hand turns now, I am not having anxiety attacks (as often) and my children say I am not as grouchy and sleepy (after an anxiety attack I would have to go to bed and sleep it off). I am actually feeling my happiness.

For me…it is like blood pressure medication.
 
Hi, Lillith,

I’m so glad that the medication is helping. It took almost
10 years for me to find the right combination of meds. I couldn’t
believe it! I felt so much calmer, less “disorgainzed” by
taking a pill that’s not much larger than the head of a pin.

What I say to myself is this: the medication is trying
to bring my brain back to the condition where most people’s
brains are already. [in terms of compensating for structural issues, neurotransmitters…]

I have been blessed by most of what the secular world
considers desireable…and yet, I’ve walked around for 40
years, feeling like a space cadet, depressed beyond
measure and with a level of anxiety so high that I’ve
come to consider it normal for me.

Be of good cheer.🙂 You have decades of life ahead of
you, please God, and the researchers are moving ahead,
full speed.

I pray that children, yet unborn, will never have to deal
with my type of illness and the lack of understanding
in society that I’ve dealt with for 40 years, as a result of that illness.

God bless you,
reen12
 
When I heard what he had to say, I really wanted to lock him up in our in patient unit with his treadmill and vitamins and see how far that could go

he has a point and it’s not on his head. In my opinion drugs like Ritalin and Adderal are being PUSHED on children. To the point that when I read a woman’s magazine there are at LEAST 3 ads pushing the garbage. Yes, some kids need it but not at the rate the drug companies and pushers (psychiatrists, doctors, and teachers) are doing it.​

Also, I have been on Paxil, Buspar and Prozac. I found it helped at first. Which was a relief, but it was not free of side effects. Some were no interest in sex, EXTREME weight gain even when watching one’s diet and exercising, a “flat” effect, where one feels nothing either way.
 
Thomas Szasz, MD:“The Myth of Mental Illness” describes how terms are used to describe mental illness according to the medical model–a model that had never been proven prior to the publication of that work nor has been proven today. As such, such terms must be seen to be “metaphors”. This of course does not answer ElizaE’s question but inasmuch as I am not an authority on how other religions view Psychiatry I cannot by this reason pose a fair answer to her question. The terms “biology” have been used quite frequently but apply to nothing as definitive as proof that for example the brains of those diagnosed as Schizophrenics are uniformly different in chemistry and metabolism than the so -called normal control brains…Scientology, often cited as the reason to believe that those who oppose Psychiatry’s coercive methods are themselves necessarily “out of touch with reality” via religion…is a very small example on a per capita representation of all world religions, for absolutely certain…
I can however, react to the supposition, as per Szasz’s work(Szasz being a Psychiatrist himself, who is not alone since with fellow Psychiatrists Breggin and Liefler decry the coercive nature of the practice of this profession replete with its (name removed by moderator)atient wards the nature of which ElizaE correctly betrayed in one of her comments insinuating she wished to punish a poster on here for his comments by putting him as an “(name removed by moderator)atient” if I interpret this correctly).
Moving back to the element of the question posed by ElizaE–while not referring to a definitive source within the Catholic church–I may refer to a Catholic Physician who agrees with Szasz named Joseph Mauceri, who has posted his thoughts as part of the website called “The Cephas Institute”, readily searchable on the internet. Mauceri decries the arbitrary coercive nature of Psychiatry and particularly its arbitrary, capricious, and often counterproductive use of drugs. He adheres overall to what may generally be considered Conservative Catholic Theology. Mauceri has no formal credentials in the church but has been well-known(to those who know him) as a firm supporter of The Catholic Church.
There is yet another element to the discussion, which is to ask this:does Psychiatric practice adhere to the laws, for example, of the United States, particularly in (name removed by moderator)atient “treatment”? The answer is resoundingly no–it regularly avoids civil, human, and constitutional rights laws and court decisions creating law, and violates both state and federal laws routinely on these points. This begs the corrollary question:What is the social purpose or meaning of the existence of such a state of affairs? The answer, according to Szazs et al, is that society needs an extra-legal control mechanism through which to exercise arbitrary functions based on fears that influential members of society have about failing to have such a mechanism. The evidence in the United States at least appears to bear out this viewpoint:the most incarcerative society in the industrialized world on a per capita basis(particularly if we include Psychiatric wards, where civil rights are nonexistent for inmate-patients). We might further, in view of these facts, ask another question:What is it about us as a collective society in the United States of America that makes us so fearful that we find the need to lock up more people on a per capita basis than any other society in the industrialized world? Does the law prescribe such? Do their behavior prescribe such–or has it more to do with our collective societal fear generally?
 
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