Psychic abilities...could they be real?

[Julia_Mae]

Yes, we are strictly forbidden to seek knowledge in that way, but are to rely on the HS only.

Actually, almost all the psychics I know have a regular prayer practice and attribute the connections when they get information like where a missing child is to God.

See, I think it’s mostly nomenclature. I knew a lot of serious prayers in my old Parish. If my child was missing and I went to them for prayer and one said, " think you should look here…" and my child was found we’d consider it a blessing of God. If the same woman was a practicing psychic with an active prayer life and I asked for help to find my child and got the same information, then it would be a sin?

 

[Mar044]

i have nearly died at least 6 times,

full choke twice, candy and chicken that blocked my airway, i pressed my throat when i was 10 and the candy came out…lucky…chicken was helped out.

nearly drowned learning to swim…pulled from water and airway cleared before i passed out

when i was 5 a stranger ironically offered me candy if i would get into the car, my mom say the car even though she was away on the phone half way across the house and they guy drove away.

hit by a taxi while on my bike crossing, went over the top of the cab and nothing happened, since i was high up on the bike,

nearly stabbed working security, lucky my co worker saw the guy had a knife and grabbed his arm…i didn’t even see he had a weapon.

if god and angels arn’t real then i doubt it was chance every time i tell people the story they have a look.

since then i know god is watching or at least a angel has, i may not be in his good graces most of the time but i know who loves me, or at least wants me to live for now

 

[StrawberryJam]

i have nearly died at least 6 times,

full choke twice, candy and chicken that blocked my airway, i pressed my throat when i was 10 and the candy came out…lucky…chicken was helped out.

nearly drowned learning to swim…pulled from water and airway cleared before i passed out

when i was 5 a stranger ironically offered me candy if i would get into the car, my mom say the car even though she was away on the phone half way across the house and they guy drove away.

hit by a taxi while on my bike crossing, went over the top of the cab and nothing happened, since i was high up on the bike,

nearly stabbed working security, lucky my co worker saw the guy had a knife and grabbed his arm…i didn’t even see he had a weapon.

if god and angels arn’t real then i doubt it was chance every time i tell people the story they have a look.

since then i know god is watching or at least a angel has, i may not be in his good graces most of the time but i know who loves me, or at least wants me to live for now

How is any of this related to Psychic ability or disability?

How is this in any way on topic?

 

[Julia_Mae]

What makes you think the Pope doesn not?

Okay, I know this image is of a story in Weekly World News (not exactly highbrow) but I remember when Fr Concetti have this interview to L’Observatoire Romano. He was John Paul II’s official commentator to the paper.



This is a normal paper from Pennsylvania that reported the same story:



John Paul II talked a lot about the afterlife and what happens after we pass. This is a quote I have from him:

One should not think life begins after death only with the final judgment. Quite special conditions prevail after natural death. It concerns a transitional phase in which the body dissolves and where the life of a mirror-image entity (the soul) begins.’

'This entity is equipped with its own consciousness and its own will, so that humans exist, although they no longer possess a physical body.

So, I don’t know what catechism Fr Cocetti was referring to when he said this:

‘According to the modern catechism, God allows our dear departed persons who live in an ultra - terrestrial dimension, to send messages to guide us in certain difficult moments of our lives. The Church has decided not to forbid anymore the dialogue with the deceased with the condition that these contacts are carried out with a serious religious and scientific purpose.’

But it all raised a huge hue and cry, which I am having a hard time finding much reference to online 15 yrs later. But I do recall that the Vatican under John Paul II was carrying out it’s own research into mediumship and psychism, which seemed to be the impetus behind these remarks.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Okay, I know this image is of a story in Weekly World News (not exactly highbrow) but I remember when Fr Concetti have this interview to L’Observatoire Romano. He was John Paul II’s official commentator to the paper.

http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/17/84/46/59/newsni10.jpg

This is a normal paper from Pennsylvania that reported the same story:

http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/17/84/46/59/newsni11.jpg

John Paul II talked a lot about the afterlife and what happens after we pass. This is a quote I have from him:

So, I don’t know what catechism Fr Cocetti was referring to when he said this:

But it all raised a huge hue and cry, which I am having a hard time finding much reference to online 15 yrs later. But I do recall that the Vatican under John Paul II was carrying out it’s own research into mediumship and psychism, which seemed to be the impetus behind these remarks.

Seemed to be?

Impetus?

Sorry, not hearing you on this one.

Give me something, anything explicit that the pope ever said that was binding on ALL catholic believers.

Until then, stirring up the pot is not helpful to yours. Consider that.

 

[guanophore]

Yes and no.

Because man is an enfleshed soul, he gains new knowledge of the universe principally though his five bodily senses. The soul cannot sense anything directly.

If this were true, then no communication without the body would be possible, which we know is not the case. One of the reasons it is called extra sensory perception is that it does not come to our awareness through the physical senses.

Knowledge, however, can be infused directly into the mind by God, or an angel can enlighten us about something we partially understand.

Indeed, and we might also be influenced as well by evil in the non-physical plane.

No one, including an angel, can know the future except God. Therefore if someone knows the future, he is getting it from God, not from psychic powers. God never lies, so if someone predicts the future and gets it wrong, he is either making it up or is being fooled by a bad angel.

This conclusion is also not consistent with the scriptural record. Angels and demons live outside the space time continuum.

Angels, however, are able to understand anything as it is in itself and are able to make educated guesses about the near future and in many cases the distant future.

Do you have any evidence to substantiate this claim? It sounds like pure speculation.

Although they are not able to read our minds, they can read our body language and therefore can make solid guesses about what we are thinking.

Seriously!? Where do you get this stuff?

 

[guanophore]

It doesn’t matter if they are real or not.

Using psychics and mediums, divination, conjuring, magic and sorcery all show a desire for control and lack of trust in God’s providence.

Real or not, we should stay away from such practices.

-Tim-

I think you are mixing up natural God given ability with the misuse of such ability. One can misuse ones psychic abilities just like one can misuse his physical perceptions. Anything that God created in us is not inherintly evil. Only the misuse of it, such as in the practices you cite here.

 

[guanophore]

You’re right about psychic ability simply being a trait that some have in greater depth than others, but since all of our genetic attributes are given to us by our Creator, they have to be God-given. I’m not sure what you are saying when you state that prayerful practice seems to enhance psychism in many people. Are you saying that prayerful people exhibit more signs of being psychic, or that praying for psychic ability seems to be rewarded?

It might be more accurate to say that being in prayer acquaints us to the non-physical reality of life, and opens us to experience and recognize more of what occurs in that realm. All of the Saints who had strong abilities in these areas also had very strong prayer lives. They all also counsel the faithful NOT to pray for such abilities or gifts, but only to seek the Giver.

 

[aragonjohn1]

[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

Padre Pio, Saint Faustina

Thank you for reminding me.

Shalom
God bless you on you’re journey

 

[Julia_Mae]

Until then, stirring up the pot is not helpful to yours. Consider that.

I would if I knew what this meant.

 

[Angels_Eyes]

Well, at least two professional psychics failed the test recently. dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2226129/Two-professional-mediums-fail-test-demonstrate-psychic-powers-laboratory-conditions.html

Mmmmm interesting.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Well, at least two professional psychics failed the test recently. dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2226129/Two-professional-mediums-fail-test-demonstrate-psychic-powers-laboratory-conditions.html

This is from the article:

'I believe the overwhelming absence of evidence - despite a huge amount of interest and exploration over the years - is due to the fact that people can’t really obtain information by psychic means alone, and that people who feel these abilities are real are often misguided.

There isn’t an “overwhelming absence of evidence.” There is rather a lot of solid evidence. And this was hardly a “scientific” test. There’s no standard for what is to be expected from “chance alone.” We have no access to the model and no controls were in place that we know of.

Two trials are meaningless. Both the US government decades-long experiments and the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research experiments present a great deal of solid evidence for psychic functioning, and Schwartz’s work is at least an example of how true scientific research is carried out, with multiple trials, controlled conditions and development of strict parameters.

This was done by a skeptic society. They are claiming that absence of results is evidence of absence of ability. Yet, they are unable to explain the presence a of the very accurate results that did emerge.

When skeptic amateurs undertake to do science, it’s always going to be skewed. How exactly do those who don’t believe in something, decide what would “prove” that thing? It’s like an atheist telling you… “If God existed he would (wouldn’t) do this (fill in blank).”

 

[StrawberryJam]

This is from the article:

There isn’t an “overwhelming absence of evidence.” There is rather a lot of solid evidence. And this was hardly a “scientific” test. There’s no standard for what is to be expected from “chance alone.” We have no access to the model and no controls were in place that we know of.

Two trials are meaningless. Both the US government decades-long experiments and the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research experiments present a great deal of solid evidence for psychic functioning, and Schwartz’s work is at least an example of how true scientific research is carried out, with multiple trials, controlled conditions and development of strict parameters.

This was done by a skeptic society. They are claiming that absence of results is evidence of absence of ability. Yet, they are unable to explain the presence a of the very accurate results that did emerge.

When skeptic amateurs undertake to do science, it’s always going to be skewed. How exactly do those who don’t believe in something, decide what would “prove” that thing? It’s like an atheist telling you… “If God existed he would (wouldn’t) do this (fill in blank).”

Daily Mail?

Really Julia?

Well pardon me for discounting a source like this one is.

Will you let me use the “Daily Mail” as a source also? Oh, don’t bother. I won’t do that.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Daily Mail?

Really Julia?

Well pardon me for discounting a source like this one is.

Will you let me use the “Daily Mail” as a source also? Oh, don’t bother. I won’t do that.

It was Weekly World News and I don’t think I will pardon you, as I also included the story from the perspective of a regular American newspaper. The original isn’t online for me to link. The quotes are accurate.

Also, the post you linked to has no mention at all of the article with the Vatican spokeman’s remarks.

 

[rinnie]

Could I get a reference for this, please? I mean a Church document of some sort. Tnx.

The best thing I can think of is scripture.

2 The, 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of satan with all power and false wonders.

1 John Tells us these are false prophets.

Lev. 20:6 Tells us not to turn to them.

Deut, 18:10-12 Tells us its an abomination.

The Bible is full of this telling us to obey and listen to only God. Anotherwards if God wants us to know something he will find a way to get our attention. We don’t need to seek it out.

 

[rinnie]

From what I have been taught from a child is God can send anyone to us at anytime if he chooses to do so.

Does God send angels, others from our past?

Look at the Blessed Mother God sent the angel to her.

The point I am trying to make is this, Can God send my departed Brother or Dad to me? Sure he can. But when he does or if he does it will be the choice of God, not mine.

Dreams is how God communicated with many in the O.T. And he can still do it today.

But the question is if say a Child is to be in danger and God comes to me in my mind and warns me. It is truly a physic ability that I have? NO, It is a way God chooses to communicate with me to do his work.

And to be honest is we all think back we have all had an experience of some sort of God finding a way to communicate with us for one reason or another.

My Dad always told me if you continue to dream or think of the dead they need prayers. Is this true:shrug: But what would it hurt?

He also told me its not the dead that you have to worry about its the living

 

[rinnie]

It was Weekly World News and I don’t think I will pardon you, as I also included the story from the perspective of a regular American newspaper. The original isn’t online for me to link. The quotes are accurate.

Also, the post you linked to has no mention at all of the article with the Vatican spokeman’s remarks.

Julia what that article said is the Church believes that we are in communion with the Saints. That has always been a belief of the Church.

To be honest we even have scripture as I said to back it up. ALso read rev. where it shows the angels taking up to God the prayers of the Saints. That is the proof.

We believe as Catholics we can pray for our loved ones and they can pray for us. But that is completely different from what this thread is about.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Julia what that article said is the Church believes that we are in communion with the Saints. That has always been a belief of the Church…

I know what it said, I posted it.

 

[guanophore]

The best thing I can think of is scripture.

2 The, 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of satan with all power and false wonders.

1 John Tells us these are false prophets.

Lev. 20:6 Tells us not to turn to them.

Deut, 18:10-12 Tells us its an abomination.

The Bible is full of this telling us to obey and listen to only God. Anotherwards if God wants us to know something he will find a way to get our attention. We don’t need to seek it out.

The thread is not about whether we should seek out psychics for advice. It is about whether human persons have legitimate abilities in accessing information from non-rational sources. In fact, God created mankind with these abilities,a nd when they are used in His service, they are considered gifts.

One has to cut out too much scripture in both the OT and NT to eliminate the non-rational sources of knowledge and experience. Even King Saul, who broke his own law to seek out a “psychic” to make contact with the prophet Samuel in fact was able to do so.

 

[guanophore]

From what I have been taught from a child is God can send anyone to us at anytime if he chooses to do so.

Does God send angels, others from our past?

Look at the Blessed Mother God sent the angel to her.

The point I am trying to make is this, Can God send my departed Brother or Dad to me? Sure he can. But when he does or if he does it will be the choice of God, not mine.

There is no question on this point, at least, not in this thread. No one on this thread has claimed or even implied that God is not able to reach mankind in any way He chooses. The question was do human beings have this extrasensory perception ability? God could reach human beings even if they didnt. I mean, He can speak through a donkey, so obviously he could impart knowlege and experience to humans using esp.

Dreams is how God communicated with many in the O.T. And he can still do it today.

This is a very good point, and I think one of the weaknesses of modern discernment practices. By and large we lack experience and knowledge in how to discern God speaking to us in our dreams. It is one major source of extra sensory perception.

But the question is if say a Child is to be in danger and God comes to me in my mind and warns me. It is truly a physic ability that I have?  NO,  It is a way God chooses to communicate with me to do his work.

I think it is both. The reason that communication can happen this way is because God has fashioned us this way. We know that it is a human ability because it can also be misused, which is why there are so many warnings against it as you noted in your post above. People have innate ability to gain knowledge through dreams, visions and other forms of non-sensory intuition.

And to be honest is we all think back we have all had an experience of some sort of God finding a way to communicate with us for one reason or another.

Yes, it is quite common, but since we have not been taught how to use these abilities under the grace of God, such things are often ignored or minimized.

My Dad always told me if you continue to dream or think of the dead they need prayers. Is this true:shrug: But what would it hurt?

Very good advice.

He also told me its not the dead that you have to worry about its the living

Well, our prayers for those in purgatory are always beneficial, but you are right, it is those who are still here making the daily decisions of choosing life (or not) that are in the greatest peril.