Psychological or spiritual

[1_Maria]

gnome:

Here’s a quote from the Holy Father’s message to the Charismatic communities:
*
“Love for the Church *and submission to her Magisterium,in a process of maturing in theChurch supported by a solid permanent formation are relevant signs of your intention to avoid the risk of favouring, unwittingly, a purely emotional experience of the divine, an excessive pursuit of the “extraordinary” and a private withdrawal that may shrink from apostolic outreach.”

See Fr.Most’s article for a clear definition of what “extraordinary” exactly means…

Also, another message from Holy Father to CCR:

“To mature in faith, we have to grow in knowledge of its truths. If this does not happen, there is a danger of superficiality, extreme subjectivism and illusion. The new *Catechism of the Catholic Church *should become for every Christian — and therefore for every community of the Renewal — a constant reference point.”

I do not see any caution like this in other devotion like the Rosary, Eucharistic Adoration.

Thanks Gnome, I think all of us will be happy with what the Pope said. It should help us see the road we need to follow if we don’t want to risk getting stranded.

Maria

 

[Mysty101]

Gnome,
Do you have any articles by clergy other than Fr Most? I have seen many endorsing the Charismatic movement (JP II has written much encouraging the movement), but only Fr Most condemning it.

 

[Les_Richardson]

Mysty101:

Gnome,
Do you have any articles by clergy other than Fr Most? I have seen many endorsing the Charismatic movement (JP II has written much encouraging the movement), but only Fr Most condemning it.

Check out the links on post #9. Very credible, IMHO. I’m not sure John-Paul Ignatius qualifies as clergy, but he certainly has experience.

 

[Mysty101]

I have seen many articles by Priest and Bishops endorsing CCR, and very few condemning it. Check some of the renewal sites.

I think I’ll go with the majority

 

[gnome]

gnome:

Here’s a quote from the Holy Father’s message to the Charismatic communities:
*
“Love for the Church *and submission to her Magisterium,in a process of maturing in theChurch supported by a solid permanent formation are relevant signs of your intention to avoid the risk of favouring, unwittingly, a purely emotional experience of the divine, an excessive pursuit of the “extraordinary” and a private withdrawal that may shrink from apostolic outreach.”

See Fr.Most’s article for a clear definition of what “extraordinary” exactly means…

Also, another message from Holy Father to CCR:

“To mature in faith, we have to grow in knowledge of its truths. If this does not happen, there is a danger of superficiality, extreme subjectivism and illusion. The new *Catechism of the Catholic Church *should become for every Christian — and therefore for every community of the Renewal — a constant reference point.”

I do not see any caution like this in other devotion like the Rosary, Eucharistic Adoration.

Based on the CR prayer meetings I attended, which are from Catholic church but the meetings not lead by a priest, I came to the conclusion that the risk Holy Father mentioned here has to do with the tongues, the pray over and the falling phenomenon.
I’d be interested to find out in other CR groups, when lead by a priest, his interpretation of what “the risk” is…
Thanks!

 

[1_Maria]

gnome:

Here’s a quote from the Holy Father’s message to the Charismatic communities:

“Love for the Church and submission to her Magisterium,in a process of maturing in theChurch supported by a solid permanent formation are relevant signs of your intention to avoid the risk of favouring, unwittingly, a purely emotional experience of the divine, an excessive pursuit of the “extraordinary” and a private withdrawal that may shrink from apostolic outreach.”

Gnome, thanks again.

The Pope sure has a gift for going straight to the heart of the matter, doesn’t he?

Our hearts should always be receptive to his pastoral love for us even when it’s a bit painful to swallow.

Maria

 

[Mysty101]

gnome:

Based on the CR prayer meetings I attended, which are from Catholic church but the meetings not lead by a priest, I came to the conclusion that the risk Holy Father mentioned here has to do with the tongues, the pray over and the falling phenomenon.
I’d be interested to find out in other CR groups, when lead by a priest, his interpretation of what “the risk” is…
Thanks!

Hi Gnome,

This is from the Instructions for Prayers for Healing,
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20001123_istruzione_en.html

Art 5 § 3. Anything resembling hysteria, artificiality, theatricality or sensationalism, above all on the part of those who are in charge of such gatherings, must not take place.

also

Art. 8 – § 1. The ministry of exorcism must be exercised in strict dependence on the Diocesan Bishop, and in keeping with the norm of can. 1172, the Letter of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith of September 29, 1985,(31) and the Rituale Romanum (32).

§ 2. The prayers of exorcism contained in the Rituale Romanum must remain separate from healing services, whether liturgical or non-liturgical.

§ 3. It is absolutely forbidden to insert such prayers of exorcism into the celebration of the Holy Mass, the sacraments, or the Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[1_Maria]

Also from the Pope to the CCR:

“You belong to an ecclesial movement. The word “ecclesial” here is more than merely decorative. It implies a precise task of Christian formation, and involves a deep convergence of faith and life. The enthusiastic faith, which enlivens your communities, is a great enrichment, but it is not enough. It must be accompanied by a Christian formation, which is solid, comprehensive and faithful to the Church’s Magisterium: a formation based upon a life of prayer, upon listening to the Word of God, and upon worthy reception of the sacraments, especially Reconciliation and the Eucharist. To mature in faith, we have to grow in knowledge of its truths. If this does not happen, there is a danger of superficiality, extreme subjectivism and illusion.”

Maria

 

[FrmrTrad]

I recommend reading St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. Their works illuminate many aspects of prayer. “Fall” for the doctors of the Church.

 

[gnome]

Ask Fr. John Hardon:

Q. Is the charismatic practice known as “baptism in the Holy Spirit” 1) an integral part of either the sacrament of Baptism or Confirmation, 2) a new sacrament, 3) a part of the liturgy, or 4) an authentic Catholic practice?

-K.A.K., Michigan

A.No, the charismatic practice of baptism in the Holy Spirit is not: 1) an integral part of either the sacrament of Baptism or Confirmation, 2) a new sacrament, 3) a part of the liturgy, or 4) an authentic Catholic practice.

What is called the “baptism in the Holy Spirit” is variously interpreted by charismatics. The most common interpretation is the belief that some people receive what is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. These would be persons who receive certain extraordinary gifts, such as those received by the Apostles on Pentecost Sunday. This claim is purely gratuitous. It is part of a larger claim by some charismatics. They say the Church of the future will be the Church of the Holy Spirit and no longer the Church of the hierarchy and the sacraments instituted by Christ.