Public responses during the Latin Mass

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Sword_Brethren

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We have a Latin Mass here that is approved by the local Bishop. Last Sunday one of the priest’s spoke before Mass and said that the lay people should say the prayers of the altar boys aloud with them during Mass. I have been going to the Latin Mass here for three years and the people in the pews never responded out loud with the altar boys during Mass. Is this public response allowed in the Latin Mass?
 
My understanding has always been no, not out loud, but we should pray the ENTIRE Mass (as I know you know) with the Priest, but silently. When we do this, we are doing the responses too.

BUT…I have seen what you are talking about at the TLMs. As an example, I don’t know where you are from, but here in Texas that holding hands thing during the Our Father at NO Masses are a big deal. Well, I was at a TLM and these women behind us (4 or 5) of them all held hands AND said the Our Father IN ENGLISH while the priest said it in latin. Well, that’s a bit overboard. (I was not watching them during mass, I was facing foward, but when the Our Father was said, they were saying it SO loud, everyone looked at them)
 
Sword_Brethren said:
We have a Latin Mass here that is approved by the local Bishop. Last Sunday one of the priest’s spoke before Mass and said that the lay people should say the prayers of the altar boys aloud with them during Mass. I have been going to the Latin Mass here for three years and the people in the pews never responded out loud with the altar boys during Mass. Is this public response allowed in the Latin Mass?
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Yes, it’s allowed. It’s called a dialogue Mass.

When you think of it, if the servers, who are laymen, can respond, why not the whole congregation?

Similarly, in a Missa Cantata (sung mass) the choir sings some of the priests parts (Gloria, Sanctus, Agnes Dei, etc.)

God Bless
 
My understand is that the dialog mass is actually the better method. In the US the quite Latin Mass got its roots form the large numbers Irish immigrates. During the persecution of Catholics in Ireland congregations quit saying the responses for fear of being found. This practice was then brought to the US and is still very prevalent.
 
LJN21, do you have any sources on that? I definitely would prefer to see a dialogue Mass, and I knew that the trend leading up to Vatican II was in that direction, but I was unaware history favored it as well.
 
bilop said:
Yes, it’s allowed. It’s called a dialogue Mass.

When you think of it, if the servers, who are laymen, can respond, why not the whole congregation?

Similarly, in a Missa Cantata (sung mass) the choir sings some of the priests parts (Gloria, Sanctus, Agnes Dei, etc.)

God Bless
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About the dialogue Mass…wouldn’t it be up to the priest as to how the Mass is to be celebrated?
 
bilop said:
Yes, it’s allowed. It’s called a dialogue Mass.

When you think of it, if the servers, who are laymen, can respond, why not the whole congregation?

Similarly, in a Missa Cantata (sung mass) the choir sings some of the priests parts (Gloria, Sanctus, Agnes Dei, etc.)

God Bless
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It used to be allowed in the '60’s or '70’s. Are you sure it’s allowed now in the TLM? Do you have a citation for that?

I went to a girls’ school and we didn’t have altar boys so it was a good thing for us. But I wonder if it was one of those transitional things that’s no longer permitted. I know that ‘dialog sermons’ aren’t. I guess today they would have to be called ‘interactive homilies’.:rolleyes:

By the way, what does the priest do when no altar boys show up for a TLM? I think he used to say the responses to himself but that appears very odd to me now.
 
I think there were Dialogue Masses going back into the 1950s at least, so I do think it would be allowed. I’ve even been to some TLMs in different places where most of the congregation was responding. My impression was that it was very distracting. Sure it is Latin, but it is still a lot of people, in various states of “keeping up”, with many of them not even pronouncing things the same.
But maybe I’m just too worried about some Roundhead walking by and hearing us in the midst of our Popery 😃
 
freudmacher said:
BUT…I have seen what you are talking about at the TLMs. As an example, I don’t know where you are from, but here in Texas that holding hands thing during the Our Father at NO Masses are a big deal. Well, I was at a TLM and these women behind us (4 or 5) of them all held hands AND said the Our Father IN ENGLISH while the priest said it in latin. Well, that’s a bit overboard. (I was not watching them during mass, I was facing foward, but when the Our Father was said, they were saying it SO loud, everyone looked at them)
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It sounds as if they were expressing a statement rather than participating in the Mass. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see more and more of this type of activity. But, except for the decibel level, is that much different than those that bring in their EF missals to a OF Mass? I’m just trying to be fair here.
 
Back when the TLM was the norm the message seemed to be “shut up and pray the rosary”.
 
nightwalker said:
LJN21, do you have any sources on that? I definitely would prefer to see a dialogue Mass, and I knew that the trend leading up to Vatican II was in that direction, but I was unaware history favored it as well.
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I’ve been kinda looking, my source was a amazing FSSP priest we had years ago while back at our local LM. He worked very hard to get ours to the dialog Mass but a few of the “Old Guard” weren’t willing to cooperate.
 
**
Similarly, in a Missa Cantata (sung mass) the choir sings some of the priests parts (Gloria, Sanctus, Agnes Dei, etc.)**

Actually, you’ve got it backwards: at a Low Mass, the PRIEST is saying some of the CHOIR’S parts of the High Mass, which is theoretically the norm (not a Low Mass).
 
I grew up with the dialogue Mass. It was the norm in my archdiocese. No, it wasn’t used in the 6am Low Mass on Sunday but from 8am to the noon Mass, it was the norm. This was not so in every diocese as I have learned on these fora. But, yes, we responded both in prayer and in chant.

And I really, really, really wish that this myth that we were encouraged to say our rosaries dies the nasty death that it deserves. :mad:
 
brotherhrolf said:
And I really, really, really wish that this myth that we were encouraged to say our rosaries dies the nasty death that it deserves. :mad:
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Well, unfortunately, it isn’t myth. Although I can see where some might like to affirm some revisionist history. 😛
 
brotherhrolf said:
And I really, really, really wish that this myth that we were encouraged to say our rosaries dies the nasty death that it deserves. :mad:
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1962 . . 8:00 a.m. Mass . . . a group of elderly women were there daily, diligently, quietly and faithfully praying their Rosaries throughout the Mass. Never responded, never paid much attention to those around them, never received Communion.

What people may not have known is that these same faithful women had prayed the Mass at 6:30 a.m., but remained in the Church, in the presence of God, for several hours afterwards to pray for the intentions of their friends, their families, their parish, their church, their nation, their world.

Would that we had them there today.

Sometimes what we “see” is not really what we are seeing.
 
ethelzguy said:
Well, unfortunately, it isn’t myth. Although I can see where some might like to affirm some revisionist history. 😛
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Revisionist history…at my age? Come now, sirrah! At 56 almost 57 am I not supposed to not remember all of those dialogue Masses way back when? Sure, the little old Italian ladies were there with their beads but my Irish momma was right there missal in hand teaching bro, sis, and myself how to use it. And the good Sisters of Mercy - did they not teach us how to use our missals?

I may be younger than you, sir, but my experience was far different. In my archdiocese we, the people, participated in Mass. If all I was taught was to say the rosary, then what did I experience when I went to 8th grade at my Catholic high school? (Not taught by the Sisters of Mercy).

I dispute your one note samba and I do not back down from what I have maintained. The burden of proof is on you to show that we Catholics in New Orleans in the 50’s/early 60’s were encouraged to say the rosary during Mass. To put it bluntly, “put up or shut up”. I have the evidence of my own two eyes and ears.
 
ethelzguy said:
Well, unfortunately, it isn’t myth. Although I can see where some might like to affirm some revisionist history. 😛
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So, you were down here in south Louisiana in 1958 and you witnessed all that I witnessed. Revisionist history - wanna talk to my mother? Sure, there were little old Sicilian ladies in my parish, off in the corner, running their beads. Talk to my Irish mother. Tell her that she was part and parcel of revisionist history. Tell her that she didn’t teach her kids how to follow along in our St. Joseph Missals.

I’m sorry that the parish in which you grew up had large numbers of those who would prefer to say their rosary rather than participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I don’t make the claim that ALL of us followed along in our missals nor should you make the claim that saying the rosary was the norm.

I am an historian and anthropologist and to be cited for revisionist history is a real insult. I await your claim to “prove me wrong”.
 
brotherhrolf said:
So, you were down here in south Louisiana in 1958 and you witnessed all that I witnessed. Revisionist history - wanna talk to my mother? Sure, there were little old Sicilian ladies in my parish, off in the corner, running their beads. Talk to my Irish mother. Tell her that she was part and parcel of revisionist history. Tell her that she didn’t teach her kids how to follow along in our St. Joseph Missals.

I’m sorry that the parish in which you grew up had large numbers of those who would prefer to say their rosary rather than participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I don’t make the claim that ALL of us followed along in our missals nor should you make the claim that saying the rosary was the norm.

I am an historian and anthropologist and to be cited for revisionist history is a real insult. I await your claim to “prove me wrong”.
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Did I cite you specifically for revisionist history? I said “I can see where SOME…”
 
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