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ChristRocket
Guest
How do we know that Public revelation ended with the end of the Apostilic age? This is a common objection by the LDS and I’m not sure how to approach it other than saying “because the church said so”
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
Christ’s teaching to His Apostles was the end of Revelation. Christ was the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.
ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=418656&language=en
Colin Donovan: "Catholic teaching is that everything is revealed in Jesus Christ. "
Joseph Smith’s teaching was that the Bible and Apostolic Tradition that we have today is corrupted and in error, so that he was needed as prophet to give us the correct revelation and church once again.
ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=418656&language=en
Colin Donovan: "Catholic teaching is that everything is revealed in Jesus Christ. "
Joseph Smith’s teaching was that the Bible and Apostolic Tradition that we have today is corrupted and in error, so that he was needed as prophet to give us the correct revelation and church once again.
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Todd977
Guest
Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 3)
It is my understanding that the Greek, translated above as “once for all,” can mean “conclusively.”
On the above verse, the Catholic Biblical Association’s 1942 A Commentary on the New Testament says, in part, “In the face of danger [posed by heretics] he exhorts the Christians to contend for the purity of the faith once for all delivered, i.e., preached by the Apostles as an unchangeable doctrine for all times.” (source)
It is my understanding that the Greek, translated above as “once for all,” can mean “conclusively.”
On the above verse, the Catholic Biblical Association’s 1942 A Commentary on the New Testament says, in part, “In the face of danger [posed by heretics] he exhorts the Christians to contend for the purity of the faith once for all delivered, i.e., preached by the Apostles as an unchangeable doctrine for all times.” (source)
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Micosil
Guest
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thistle
Guest
Christ (God) established the Catholic Church and gave it authority.
Joseph Smith (drug addict and occult practitioner) founded LDS.
I know who I believe in.
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grannymh
Guest
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition
Christ Jesus - “Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation”
paragraphs 65-67
Chapter 14, Gospel of John
Links to Catechism
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Christ Jesus - “Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation”
paragraphs 65-67
Chapter 14, Gospel of John
Links to Catechism
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
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Blue_Horizon
Guest
Its pretty much a matter of word-games.
Does “ended” mean that teachings the Apostles/Scripture had no clear knowledge of cannot continue to arise from the Catholic Church over time?
I don’t think so.
In which case I would say Public Revelation for all intents and purposes still continues.
But if to say that is heresy and deserves Excommunication then I certainly didn’t really say that.
In which case I myself don’t really understand how the phrase “Public Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle” helps resolve problems the phrase is wheeled out to solve.
If you believe Joseph Smith received revelation from God on gold plates presented by an angel - that conveniently disappeared and no-one will ever be able to confirm - then go for it.
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grannymh
Guest
Here is an important explanation about how the Catholic Church deals with the closure of “Public Revelation.”
Paragraph 66,* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition*
**66 **“The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
Paragraph 66,* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition*
**66 **“The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
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Ignatius
Guest
Jesus Christ, being God, is the source of final public revelation. Jesus handed on His revelation to His Apostles. They continued to hand on that revelation while they were still alive. Hence, after they left this world, they no longer handed on the public revelation that had been given to them by Jesus.
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Hunho
Guest
The authoritative source for doctrine in the Roman Catholic Church is what is contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. On the matter of when Public Relation ended the Catechism says this: There will be no further Revelation
66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.”(28) Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.INDENT DV 4; cf. 1 Tim 6:14; Titus 2:13.
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
[/INDENT]DV stands for Dei Verbum, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation. It was issued by the Church in the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), the twenty-first general council in the history of the Catholic Church.
This is why the Church says that Public Revelation has ended.
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Brandon_Cal
Guest
Citing Dei Verbum isn’t going to win over many Mormons. Stick with the Bible. It can’t get much clearer than Hebrews chapter 1. Mormons find it very difficult to reconcile it with their theology of continuing revelation.
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commenter
Guest
But I think the Mormons argue that the plates Smith read were written in ancient times, that they were only transcribed in the 1800’s. So they might not consider the Book of Mormon as a modern addition, but ancient in origin.
I wonder what would happen if a book were found now, that scholars said could be dated to the first century AD, and can be proven to be written by the same person who wrote Luke and Acts.
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Ignatius
Guest
Yes, Hebrews 1 1 God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all,
2 In these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world.
And, Jesus Christ, being God, is the source of final public revelation. Jesus handed on His revelation to His Apostles. They continued to hand on that revelation while they were still alive. Hence, after they left this world, they no longer handed on the public revelation that had been given to them by Jesus.
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