Public School Prayer?

[K_C]

I was not sure which forum was the most appropriate for this topic, so I hope it belongs here…

There has been an email circulating through the internet about Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton , Colorado. In 1999 he addressed a subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee regarding the tragedy at Columbine. The following is an excerpt from that speech:

*Your laws ignore our deepest needs, *
*Your words are empty air. *
*You’ve stripped away our heritage, *
*You’ve outlawed simple prayer. *
*Now gunshots fill our classrooms, *
*And precious children die. *
*You seek for answers everywhere, *
*And ask the question “Why?” *
*You regulate restrictive laws, *
*Through legislative creed… *
*And yet you fail to understand, *
*That God is what we need! *

*"*As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA – I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

Recently, I decided to check with Snopes.com to be certain that all stated in this email was correct. Most of it was. However, I was surprised to also learn that the claim that school prayer has been outlawed is not really accurate. Snopes provided a link to confirm this at http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html

While teachers and other school administrators are not permitted by law to lead students in prayer or to otherwise give the appearance of favoring one religion (or non-religion) over another, the rights of students to pray on campus - either privately or collectively - during times which do not interfere with school priorities has been affirmed by law. Students may also share information about their beliefs during oral presentations (e.g. book reports, personal activity reports) and may even hand out flyers or pamphlets about their beliefs to other students - as long as this does not distract from school schedules or responsibilities. They are also free to wear T-shirts with religious themes.

In fact, there is at least one organization (“See You at the Pole”) which has taken advantage of this student right by encouraging students to meet during lunch time or before or after school hours in order to pray and share their faith. (See: http://www.youthworkers.net/pdf/SYATP2008_Report.pdf )

My question, then, is why does this idea that prayer has been banned from public schools persist? But, more importantly, since it is obvious that non-Catholic Christians are taking advantage of their affirmed right to pray on public campuses, why is there no corresponding movement within our Church? Perhaps there is. Perhaps I am uninformed, but I have not heard a peep about any catechism class or Catholic bishops/priests/teachers informing students about their right to pray on public school campuses - or to distribute leaflets explaining the Catholic faith while at public school, and I wonder - WHY NOT?

 

[Lujack]

I would hope because they are busy administering Catholic schools, and encouraging Catholic students to attend those.

 

[K_C]

I would hope because they are busy administering Catholic schools, and encouraging Catholic students to attend those.

I am sure that they are. However, there are still many Catholic students attending public schools because their parents cannot afford tuition etc. at the Catholic schools. These students often attend CCD. So it was these that I was addressing.

It seems to me that if our CCD programs were doing the best possible job of teaching, our Catholic students would be just as enthusiastic about joining in prayer on publilc campuses and even in trying to share their faith. I can’t help but wonder why this isn’t even encouraged among our youth the way it is among other Christians. Of course, I do realize that the teachers have a lot more to teach them too since we have the sacraments and preparing for those does take quite a bit of teaching time. But wouldn’t it be wonderful if our Catholic CCD students could be as evangelistic as these other Christian students?

 

[mkingdomlvr]

One of my cousin’s children was involved in the “See You at the Pole” program in her school. She loved it because she met so many kids from other faiths in that one common moment every morning. Nobody was excluded- non-Christian students were welcome as well. For that time, everyone was free to pray any way they wished, all in one place. It was a great witness for teaching respect for others even if you have fundamental disagreements about belief. The common goal of calling upon their faiths before they started a school day was what they had in common and it led many kids to become friendly who wouldn’t have looked at each other before.

We should all be encouraging our school boards to read the laws and learn what really is and really is not allowed regarding religion in schools. I truly believe a lot of the problems are caused by people misunderstanding the laws, not an intent to ban Christianity or prayer.

 

[K_C]

One of my cousin’s children was involved in the “See You at the Pole” program in her school. She loved it because she met so many kids from other faiths in that one common moment every morning. Nobody was excluded- non-Christian students were welcome as well. For that time, everyone was free to pray any way they wished, all in one place. It was a great witness for teaching respect for others even if you have fundamental disagreements about belief. The common goal of calling upon their faiths before they started a school day was what they had in common and it led many kids to become friendly who wouldn’t have looked at each other before.

We should all be encouraging our school boards to read the laws and learn what really is and really is not allowed regarding religion in schools. I truly believe a lot of the problems are caused by people misunderstanding the laws, not an intent to ban Christianity or prayer.

Amen to that! However, I still wonder why our Catholic Church is not more active in promoting this kind of common prayer and faith-sharing during the day at public school. In fact, evangelizing is not very popular among most Catholics - which is a shame, since we have been blessed with so many sacraments and commissioned by Christ to share our faith with others. I think that it is also a shame that, aside from one day a year (at the World Youth Day activities), the Church does not do more to appeal to or motivate young Catholics to do more than simply practise their faith at church and in private.
After all, the young are usually very idealistic, on fire with energy and enthusiasm, and could be the main source of renewal for the Church - precisely by sharing all her treasures with their friends.

 

[ahollars]

My question, then, is why does this idea that prayer has been banned from public schools persist?

Because there are administrators out there who want students to think that it has been banned.

Twelve Students Suspended for Praying Before School

Expulsion threatened over prayer for sick teacher

Student Suspended for Praying Silently

There are plenty more examples out there that don’t make the national headlines.

 

[K_C]

Because there are administrators out there who want students to think that it has been banned.

Twelve Students Suspended for Praying Before School

Expulsion threatened over prayer for sick teacher

Student Suspended for Praying Silently

There are plenty more examples out there that don’t make the national headlines.

That is really hard to understand since the legal guidelines for such prayer are posted online (at the link I provided above). Not only that, but the guidelines also say that schools must turn in a document every October, certifying that they are in compliance with these guidelines. So I don’t understand how these particular teachers/administrators could not know about this right???

I only hope that legal action is not necessary. For the reasons I just stated, it should not be necessary in order to assure these students their rights.

 

[Jean_1958]

Bad idea for Catholics! A driving factor for establishment of the Catholic parochial school system in the US was the suppression of Catholics’ religious freedom.

See here for history lesson : candst.tripod.com/boston3.htm

I know laws and times have changed, but I still think that if prayer were allowed in public schools, there would be abuses. My fear is that a group in a religious majority might suppress others whose numbers might be much smaller. I could definitely see this happeing in more rural, out of the way places.

Jean

 

[K_C]

Bad idea for Catholics! A driving factor for establishment of the Catholic parochial school system in the US was the suppression of Catholics’ religious freedom.

See here for history lesson : candst.tripod.com/boston3.htm

I know laws and times have changed, but I still think that if prayer were allowed in public schools, there would be abuses. My fear is that a group in a religious majority might suppress others whose numbers might be much smaller. I could definitely see this happeing in more rural, out of the way places.

Jean

I did read your the linked article and the incidents were very sad. However, I think you may have misread what I posted. No one is calling for prayer to be sponsored by the public schools, but for students to exercise their rights to pray - individually or in small groups - during lunch hour or before or after school hours.

While the conflicts noted remain a threat as long as any Christian continues to justify hatred for other Christians, I think that most students generally have more open minds towards their peers since most are familiar and friends. It would be advantageous and instructive - and a means by which to dismantle hatred, which is based on the unknown - if students could simply pray together. They might even begin to discuss the differences between their belief systems, which could promote better understanding. The schools could promote this understanding by teaching specific lessons in tolerance while remaining neutral on religious topics. As long as tolerance is practiced, sharing our beliefs can only do good because the truth will always emerge in an atmosphere of true interest in finding it.

Finally, the time is coming when anti-Christ will rule and persecute all Christians. So it behooves our churches - both Catholic and Protestant - to finally begin to heed Christ’s appeal that “all be one”. In those dreadful days ahead, we will all need each other in order to resist the evils to come.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

KC, I don’t know why Catholics and the church are not more involved with these efforts in an organized way. As another poster said, it is probably a hold-over from the time Catholics were a persecuted minority and we know just have it in our culture not to evagalize. Perhaps as more and more protestants how have that skill convert to the Catholic faith we will begin to be more up-front about it.

We have always encouraged our children to pray whenever they want–either silently or aloud as appropriate. There is a group of girls who gather in my husband’s classroom during lunch to say the Angelus. He allows them gladly, but is careful not to join in so that neither he nor they get into any trouble.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I attended a public high school “back in the day”. Mainline protestantism was practically the school religion. Prayers in home room, or readings from the King James. Hymns I had never heard until freshman year at assemblies. Preachers delivering sermons at assemblies. Promotion of DeMolay and Rainbow over the intercom.

But you know, I didn’t mind it. In fact, it was kind of an aid in self-definition. As a Catholic, it emphasized what you were not. If that returned to public schools, I would not care.

But it wouldn’t return, because classic mainline protestantism is no longer the de facto “state religion” in the U.S., and “diversity” is worshipped. If any prayer is said, would it not sometimes have to be to Allah or perhaps Satan or Gaia? Would the kids sometimes have to pray for annihilation, as I believe classic Buddhists do? What about praying, as Hindus do, to be reincarnated as some more fortunate person, or at least not as a rat or cockroach?

People who want prayer in public schools will probably not succeed in getting it done. But if they did, I think there would be some unintended consequences of it that they would not welcome.

 

[K_C]

KC, I don’t know why Catholics and the church are not more involved with these efforts in an organized way. As another poster said, it is probably a hold-over from the time Catholics were a persecuted minority and we know just have it in our culture not to evagalize. Perhaps as more and more protestants how have that skill convert to the Catholic faith we will begin to be more up-front about it.

We have always encouraged our children to pray whenever they want–either silently or aloud as appropriate. There is a group of girls who gather in my husband’s classroom during lunch to say the Angelus. He allows them gladly, but is careful not to join in so that neither he nor they get into any trouble.

I do believe you are right about the Catholic mentality - that of being a repressed minority. But CONGRATULATIONS to the girls gathering to say the Angelus! They should be commended and told that other people - even strangers such as I - are very proud of them!

 

[K_C]

I attended a public high school “back in the day”. Mainline protestantism was practically the school religion. Prayers in home room, or readings from the King James. Hymns I had never heard until freshman year at assemblies. Preachers delivering sermons at assemblies. Promotion of DeMolay and Rainbow over the intercom.

But you know, I didn’t mind it. In fact, it was kind of an aid in self-definition. As a Catholic, it emphasized what you were not. If that returned to public schools, I would not care.

But it wouldn’t return, because classic mainline protestantism is no longer the de facto “state religion” in the U.S., and “diversity” is worshipped. If any prayer is said, would it not sometimes have to be to Allah or perhaps Satan or Gaia? Would the kids sometimes have to pray for annihilation, as I believe classic Buddhists do? What about praying, as Hindus do, to be reincarnated as some more fortunate person, or at least not as a rat or cockroach?

People who want prayer in public schools will probably not succeed in getting it done. But if they did, I think there would be some unintended consequences of it that they would not welcome.

I think you missed my point. I was not talking about prayer being LED BY the schools, but prayer, evangelisation BY STUDENTS and during “free time” on campus. You are right…there is a fixation today on “diversity”, no matter what that diversity entails.

I think that the best approach for American education would be to allow STUDENTS to voluntarily offer information about their own beliefs. If this was encouraged, all students would get an overview of the differences between religions and “from the horse’s mouth”, so to speak…from someone practising that religion. Hopefully, if we had an environment that encouraged open exchange of the variety of beliefs, we would be teaching our students tolerance as well as challenging them to discern the truth/s within each.

 

[K_C]

Just yesterday I received the latest copy of the National Catholic Register and was very encouraged to see a story featured on this topic. I learned that there are several groups of Catholic youth who are eagerly volunteering to share their faith with peers. Notably, NET Ministries, Teens Encounter Christ, and Destination Jesus. However, while the article about them spoke of their work on school campuses, it was only inferred that the campuses were those of Catholic schools.

Their efforts are admirable (and I plan to visit their websites to praise them), yet I hoped for similar efforts on secular campuses…a Catholic presence as counterpart to the highly visible Protestant one.

Shortly after reading about these enthusiastic young people, I noticed another article in the same news issue. It reported that a Catholic peer group called F.O.C.U.S. (Fellowship of Catholic University Students) actually IS reaching out to secular schools. At this time, specifically, they are working on campus at NYU. So it seems that my hopes are not so unrealistic as I had so sadly presumed.

YEAH, HOLY SPIRIT!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think you missed my point. I was not talking about prayer being LED BY the schools, but prayer, evangelisation BY STUDENTS and during “free time” on campus. You are right…there is a fixation today on “diversity”, no matter what that diversity entails.

I think that the best approach for American education would be to allow STUDENTS to voluntarily offer information about their own beliefs. If this was encouraged, all students would get an overview of the differences between religions and “from the horse’s mouth”, so to speak…from someone practising that religion. Hopefully, if we had an environment that encouraged open exchange of the variety of beliefs, we would be teaching our students tolerance as well as challenging them to discern the truth/s within each.

Perhaps I still don’t understand what anyone is trying to accomplish here, but why should evangelization be encouraged or even allowed during school hours? If students want to evangelize one another, or if churches want to evangelize them, they can certainly do it during non-school hours.

 

[K_C]

Perhaps I still don’t understand what anyone is trying to accomplish here, but why should evangelization be encouraged or even allowed during school hours? If students want to evangelize one another, or if churches want to evangelize them, they can certainly do it during non-school hours.

Your post says that you are a Catholic. If so, then you should have learned during your own catechesis that it was Christ’s desire that we share our faith, the “good news”, with everyone who has not heard of Him or of His Church.

For decades, our Protestant brothers (and sisters) have taken this command to heart. In fact, they are very active in evangelizing among students. So I simply wondered why our Church, with all the sacraments within it which sustain us, does not also try to reach out to these children.

When students gather to pray on their campuses, they do this during “non-school hours”. Besides being an opportunity to draw others to realize that Christ dwells within our Church - on her very altars in the Blessed Sacrament - promoting prayer within the school day framework can do nothing less than promote an awareness of God in the hearts of our children.

Considering the steady increase in shootings, gang involvement, and general godlessness on school campuses, I am surprised that you would have to ask this question. It is not a matter of “churches want to evangelize them”, but a matter of awakening within the hearts of our children an active awareness of God’s presence and, hopefully, a growing love which will eventually blot out division and hatred.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Your post says that you are a Catholic. If so, then you should have learned during your own catechesis that it was Christ’s desire that we share our faith, the “good news”, with everyone who has not heard of Him or of His Church.

For decades, our Protestant brothers (and sisters) have taken this command to heart. In fact, they are very active in evangelizing among students. So I simply wondered why our Church, with all the sacraments within it which sustain us, does not also try to reach out to these children.

When students gather to pray on their campuses, they do this during “non-school hours”. Besides being an opportunity to draw others to realize that Christ dwells within our Church - on her very altars in the Blessed Sacrament - promoting prayer within the school day framework can do nothing less than promote an awareness of God in the hearts of our children.

Considering the steady increase in shootings, gang involvement, and general godlessness on school campuses, I am surprised that you would have to ask this question. It is not a matter of “churches want to evangelize them”, but a matter of awakening within the hearts of our children an active awareness of God’s presence and, hopefully, a growing love which will eventually blot out division and hatred.

I’m leery of it. They are there to learn the subjects they are taking, or should be. During school time, it seems inappropriate to me; like making an appointment with a doctor, presumably to obtain treatment, but actually in order to evangelize him. I’m not too keen on it even before the first bell or after the last.

I am even more opposed to proselytizing of “secular religion” in the school. Students are in public schools to learn academic subjects, and course curriculum and events should be stictly limited to those things.

If we capitulate to the proselytizing of secular religion in our public schools, then I think there may be a legitimate purpose for school-premises evangelization. Otherwise, I don’t see it. Parents should guide the religious catechesis of their children. Would you want your child to be invited, and perhaps mildly pressured by his/her peers to attend after-school worship of Gaia or Satan? (“Just this once. I’ts not what people say. Just see for yourself.”)

 

[K_C]

I’m leery of it. They are there to learn the subjects they are taking, or should be. During school time, it seems inappropriate to me; like making an appointment with a doctor, presumably to obtain treatment, but actually in order to evangelize him. I’m not too keen on it even before the first bell or after the last.

It saddens me to hear a Catholic say that it is inappropriate to acknowledge the existence of God within a secular environment. Since God is the author of all life and permeates all fields of study (being their source), to dissociate study from Him completely seems irrational - unless one is an atheist, that is. Again, what I am suggesting would be prompted by the students themselves, not a method to force them to do anything.

I am even more opposed to proselytizing of “secular religion” in the school. Students are in public schools to learn academic subjects, and course curriculum and events should be stictly limited to those things.

Well, unfortunately, your opposition (and mine) hardly matters to most schools, which have been secularized for many decades now. Atheistic, secular humanism is a constant undercurrent in every field of study and students are often belittled or made to feel ostracized if they dare to voice a Christian perspective. So what I envision is really only one means of offsetting what has for too long been a slanted presentation of education.

If we capitulate to the proselytizing of secular religion in our public schools, then I think there may be a legitimate purpose for school-premises evangelization. Otherwise, I don’t see it. Parents should guide the religious catechesis of their children. Would you want your child to be invited, and perhaps mildly pressured by his/her peers to attend after-school worship of Gaia or Satan? (“Just this once. I’ts not what people say. Just see for yourself.”)

As I said, it is not a matter of “capitulating”, but simply an established fact that many if not most secular schools incorporate a steady diet of anti-theism into the cirriculum. Of course, parents are the main educators of their children and should have the final say as to what their children learn. (But have you ever tried to reason with an atheistic teacher - on a one-on-one basis? Quite futile.)

Obviously, I would not want my child “pressured” into joining any group whatever. However, if the family and Church do their jobs well, children will be well educated in their faith and not easily misled by such fringe group thinking. I really do not envision the proponents of Gaia or Satan being so bold as to promote their beliefs in public. They are too furtive and secretive. However, there are Protestant groups that are doing this. Thankfully, I have just received an email from one of our Catholic youth groups, assuring me that they do also work with CCD students. So…as I said before…YEAH, HOLY SPIRIT!