Public schools anyone?

[SeekerJen]

Public school? never I love my kids too much for that.

I think this is the attitude to which the OP was referring. I especially love the implication that parents who can afford to have one stay home to homeschool their children or spend thousands of dollars per year to put the children in Catholic school must love their children more.

 

[leonie]

I think the emotion that comes up with the mention of public schools is really directed at the schools.

It may be that parents with kids in the schools take it personally, but I don’t think it is directed at them. After all most kids in America go to public schools.

Is this thread about supporting parents who send their kids to public schools?

If so, I don’t know why the op had to put down homeschooling and parochial schools.

There are benefits to each choice of schooling. Why does it have to be mine is better than yours? Is it human nature?

I think that this comparison is what draws people (myself included) into contentious debate. It’s hard to have someone criticize your choice of lifestyle without responding in kind.

We all know the truth is that some families do better with a homeschool lifestyle; some do better with Catholic school; and some do better with public school. Not all Catholic schools are authentically Catholic. Some have real problems with cliquishness where some kids won’t fit in. Many public schools are unsafe, while others are not only safe, but academically excellent.

Then there are all the individual factors of family finances, temperament, philosophies, etc.

This is really a fruitless thread, and I regret taking part.

 

[buffalo]

I went to a Catholic grade school and was taught that by my second grade teacher that the Eucharist was just a symbol of Christ, not his real presence. I had a sixth grade teacher who was lesbian and had us do a report about the pros and cons of abortion. I had a 7th grade teacher who told us, if you are going to have sex, make sure you use protection. From talking to other people I don’t believe that these are isolated…

I went to a Jesuit high school for a year and a half, and had to leave becauase of the how liberal it was. I have a very low opinion of Catholic schools. All the high schools in town practice and preach very liberal ways of thinking…

My opinion is that it is better for kids to have no religion in their school then for them to be made to believe ideas that are opposite of what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

When did you attend?

 

[dwc]

Our oldest is in 8th grade this year. Our choices for high school include a good public school and a good Catholic school. The public school of course has some undesireable characteristics – nothing dangerous, but what others have referred to. The curriculum choices, however, are excellent.

Our Catholic school is good, but because of funding has less to offer in the science curriculum, and our daughter wants to be a vet. The high school administration and staff are Catholic, but about 30% of the student body isn’t. Also, from friends who already have children there, there is a good deal of alcohol use among the students, there are alcohol parties (with parents supplying the alcohol), oral sex is rampant, and it’s very cliquey. Primarily upper middle class to wealthy kids attend.

My daughter says her faith is very important to her and she doesn’t want to attend a school that isn’t Catholic. However, I thing that being in a religiously neutral setting might be better than attending a supposedly Christian school where it’s preached but not practiced – a lesson in hypocrisy. Home schooling is out of the question.

So, we’re in a bit of a quandry.

 

[chevalier]

I would prefer a neutral public school over a Catholic school with unorthodox ideas anytime. And since orthodoxy can no longer be taken for granted, I’d have to find out on my own how Catholic a school is. Any foul preach and my children won’t go there.

 

[genealogist]

As a product of K-8 public elementary school and the parent of two public school students, there is a bias against us.

To be fair, some, even many, CCD kids never go to Mass on Sunday.

Many public school families are marginally part of the parish. It is difficult to determine where the parish festival is different than than a parochial school festival. The set and subset are essentially the same.

Children who attend Catholic high schools and make the honor roll are printed in the bulletin. Public school honor rolls are not. That makes sense in the school newsletter but in the parish bulletin I think it is a snub.

To be be fair, many of the parochial schools parents are generous donors even after their children are done with school. They are key volunteers etc.

Likewise to be fair the school costs an arm and a leg and the excessive tuition that many complain about here does not even come close to covering the total cost of the school. It is very hard for a CCD parent to justify tithing when 90% of their donation would go to a school they choose not to send their own kids to. CCD famlies should tithe but possibly to a soup kitchen or an order would be better. Not quite sure where the homeschool crowd donates their tithe.

There are far too many parish school kids who never get to Mass on Sundays. Mortal sin is mortal sin Mom and Dad and you should live it up in the here and now because all those unrepented missed Masses are going to cost you heaven despite sending us to parochial school. Likewise there are plenty of ABC users in the parish school while I would assume the public school families use ABC at a higher rate. 95% is plenty but I would bet that the parish school families are at at least 75% using ABC, including elective sterilization.(Emergency hysterectomies in the delivery room or uterine cancer requiring a hysterectomy are not ABC for this point, please)

Home schoolers seem to me to be the Evangelicals of our church. They think they are better than the parish school families because they do not use even NFP, attend Mass at least daily and say they are the primary educators of their kids. Primary means first so since they are the only educators of their kidsit seems out of place here.

Parish school families are like mainline Protestants. They are okay but not quite as good as homeschoolers.

Last are the public school families. They may say they are Catholic but how can they have a relationship with the public school and say that?

It is a simple analogy but I think it bears some merit.

Homeschoolers like the indepedence and extra time in their day. There obviously would be no way for a teacher nursing her baby changing diapers etc. to run a class from 9-3 5 days a week and stll be a mom. But is she only has to teach 2 hours in that time frame it can be done.

I am not going to say that public schools are perfect and that a LOT of time is not wasted. However, homeschools are not perfect either. SOME mind you not all are raising SOCAL RETARDS. Just because not everyone of them is struggling with this does not mean it is not a concern. To dismiss a criticism such as that is the first step to messing up your kid. The truth will set us free.

Public schools cost too much money, are devoid oftentimes of wholesome values and can lead kids away from God.

Parish schools also cost too much, oftentimes teach heterodoxy and can turn kids off to God.

Homeschools isolate a child in a way that is outside the experience of most children in this society. It sets the parents as the only authority the child is to trust.

 

[buffalo]

As a product of K-8 public elementary school and the parent of two public school students, there is a bias against us.

To be fair, some, even many, CCD kids never go to Mass on Sunday.

Many public school families are marginally part of the parish. It is difficult to determine where the parish festival is different than than a parochial school festival. The set and subset are essentially the same.

Children who attend Catholic high schools and make the honor roll are printed in the bulletin. Public school honor rolls are not. That makes sense in the school newsletter but in the parish bulletin I think it is a snub.

To be be fair, many of the parochial schools parents are generous donors even after their children are done with school. They are key volunteers etc.

Likewise to be fair the school costs an arm and a leg and the excessive tuition that many complain about here does not even come close to covering the total cost of the school. It is very hard for a CCD parent to justify tithing when 90% of their donation would go to a school they choose not to send their own kids to. CCD famlies should tithe but possibly to a soup kitchen or an order would be better. Not quite sure where the homeschool crowd donates their tithe.

There are far too many parish school kids who never get to Mass on Sundays. Mortal sin is mortal sin Mom and Dad and you should live it up in the here and now because all those unrepented missed Masses are going to cost you heaven despite sending us to parochial school. Likewise there are plenty of ABC users in the parish school while I would assume the public school families use ABC at a higher rate. 95% is plenty but I would bet that the parish school families are at at least 75% using ABC, including elective sterilization.(Emergency hysterectomies in the delivery room or uterine cancer requiring a hysterectomy are not ABC for this point, please)

Home schoolers seem to me to be the Evangelicals of our church. They think they are better than the parish school families because they do not use even NFP, attend Mass at least daily and say they are the primary educators of their kids. Primary means first so since they are the only educators of their kidsit seems out of place here.

Parish school families are like mainline Protestants. They are okay but not quite as good as homeschoolers.

Last are the public school families. They may say they are Catholic but how can they have a relationship with the public school and say that?

It is a simple analogy but I think it bears some merit.

Homeschoolers like the indepedence and extra time in their day. There obviously would be no way for a teacher nursing her baby changing diapers etc. to run a class from 9-3 5 days a week and stll be a mom. But is she only has to teach 2 hours in that time frame it can be done.

I am not going to say that public schools are perfect and that a LOT of time is not wasted. However, homeschools are not perfect either. SOME mind you not all are raising SOCAL RETARDS. Just because not everyone of them is struggling with this does not mean it is not a concern. To dismiss a criticism such as that is the first step to messing up your kid. The truth will set us free.

Public schools cost too much money, are devoid oftentimes of wholesome values and can lead kids away from God.

Parish schools also cost too much, oftentimes teach heterodoxy and can turn kids off to God.

Homeschools isolate a child in a way that is outside the experience of most children in this society. It sets the parents as the only authority the child is to trust.

The publication of student achievement of Catholic School kids in the parish bulletin is not a snub. The school essentailly reports back to the investors the successes. It is a communication issue.

Catholic schools cost per pupil is 1/3 of the public schools cost.

Catholic formation of baptized children is a duty incumbent on all parishioners. If you belong to a parish with a school you should still support it.

If your school teaches heterodoxy you can pitch in and change it. Fix the problem rather than run from it.

Work to lower the tuition of a Catholic School as the Diocese of Wichita has done. Active parishioners can attend tuition free schools K-12.

 

[eliza3b]

Work to lower the tuition of a Catholic School as the Diocese of Wichita has done. Active parishioners can attend tuition free schools K-12.

I applaud the Diocese of Wichita for what it has accomplished. However, for most of us here in NJ it is not only the tuition ($3500-4000 per student, per year for elementary school), it is the property taxes that are far more onerous. In my town alone, the average property tax is 12K per year (and that is average, most pay closer to 20K). You add that to the extremely high price of real estate and you find very little financial support for a parish school. Our parish school shut its door twenty five years ago, although the town is heavily Catholic.

 

[buffalo]

I applaud the Diocese of Wichita for what it has accomplished. However, for most of us here in NJ it is not only the tuition ($3500-4000 per student, per year for elementary school), it is the property taxes that are far more onerous. In my town alone, the average property tax is 12K per year (and that is average, most pay closer to 20K). You add that to the extremely high price of real estate and you find very little financial support for a parish school. Our parish school shut its door twenty five years ago, although the town is heavily Catholic.

How are your kids cate3chized? What has been your experience with the outcome as they grow older. Do you see the need for a Catholic School in your area?

 

[athanasiusrc]

If your school teaches heterodoxy you can pitch in and change it. Fix the problem rather than run from it.

My mom worked for YEARS to try and keep pornographic sex ed out of the Catholic schools in our town. People came to her to whine about how horrible the content was and when asked to help, never would.

In the end she took my siblings out of the Catholic schools and homeschooled them. You can only fight for so long before it isn’t worth it anymore.

 

[Jay2]

Would you consider it reasonable to say that, ultimately, our goal is to raise a child to be good (i.e., loving), and everything else ought merely to be in support of that goal?

Yes, that would be a reasonable compromise… but I’d but a minor clause on “loving”… be compassionate and caring, but also strong. Defend your “ground” and don’t be a “sheeple”.

Originally Posted by Potato1
Public school? never I love my kids too much for that.

Yup, this is exactly what I usually protest about… the sheltering and “control” some… not all… HomeSchoolers seem to crave over their kids. Sticking your head in the sand isn’t going to make problems go away. Sheltering your kids from the world they live in, and will try to succeed in, is denying them a part of the education you’re responsible for.

As an adult I know that:
In life there are no “do overs”.
In life there are ugly people. They will take advantage of your kindness, then backstab you for their own means.
Ugly things happen all around us, every day.
Not everyone is Catholic, or subscribes to our “rules of conduct”.

I love my kids so much that I throw them “under the bus” so to speak occasionally… but when “thrown”, I know that they’ll have the skills to defend themselves and come out of the situation mentally, morally, and physically clean.

(Geez, I sound like a Boy Scout… oops - I was, and still am!)

 

[eliza3b]

How are your kids cate3chized? What has been your experience with the outcome as they grow older. Do you see the need for a Catholic School in your area?

We do have Catholic elementary schools. They are “interparochial” and consist of several parishes which support one school. We do not have a Catholic school in our town, but a few towns over. We have some excellent Catholic high schools, both diocesan and private. NJ is an interesting case study. Each town has “home rule” for it’s public school so that there is very little support for regionalization. You see it in Catholic schools, but for the most part, parents use the public school systems in their own town.

My children are catechized through our parish CCD program. I chose to homeschool them in CCD. It’s been fine so far, but my oldest is 11.

 

[JimmyJeff]

Amen…

I know of a family whose lives were turned upside-down when one of the children went to public school and totally went the wrong way after that.

I’m not really sure the Catholic schools do a much better job. When I went away to college, I had two roomates that were grads of all girl high schools. It was like living with Girls Gone Wild, quite frankly. Both of them getting herpes from the same guy (another Catholic school grad) and I attended several frat parties at the nearby Jesuit college. These kids were crazy. I was shocked, not because I was any less crazy, but because I thought since they’d all had 12 years of parochial education, they’d wouldn’t be so wild.

I’m not saying that ALL Catholic school kids are like that, any more than ALL public schools kids are. It’s just that Catholic (or private) is no guarantee of anything and I’m not quite sure why people think it is.

 

[stogs]

If your school teaches heterodoxy you can pitch in and change it. Fix the problem rather than run from it.

Come on now!?!? Unless you are a huge donor to a the school or church, the school or church will pay no attention to you.

 

[leonie]

I’m not really sure the Catholic schools do a much better job. When I went away to college, I had two roomates that were grads of all girl high schools. It was like living with Girls Gone Wild, quite frankly. Both of them getting herpes from the same guy (another Catholic school grad) and I attended several frat parties at the nearby Jesuit college. These kids were crazy. I was shocked, not because I was any less crazy, but because I thought since they’d all had 12 years of parochial education, they’d wouldn’t be so wild.

I’m not saying that ALL Catholic school kids are like that, any more than ALL public schools kids are. It’s just that Catholic (or private) is no guarantee of anything and I’m not quite sure why people think it is.

I heard a speaker once say that part of the problem with Catholics today is that the generation before us trusted the nuns and brothers so much with religious ed that they stopped teaching it at home.

Then, when the religious left the schools, people still had the attitude that the schools would take this task over.

Another problem is that by the time kids get home from either public or Catholic school, and whatever extracurricular activities they do, there isn’t much time for catechesis, or even conversation.

Society doesn’t support Christian values anymore. That is why we must be radical about training our kids. That is why homeschooling is becoming so popular.

Catholic schools need to be radical too, but I’m not sure that the schools have realized it, yet.

I agree that for many Catholic schools, there is not much difference in the values taught compared to public schools. And public schools do tend to have more resources.

 

[buffalo]

Come on now!?!? Unless you are a huge donor to a the school or church, the school or church will pay no attention to you.

Not! People, even those who are not big donors can fight for orthodoxy and win.

 

[Gertabelle]

As an adult I know that:
In life there are no “do overs”.
In life there are ugly people. They will take advantage of your kindness, then backstab you for their own means.
Ugly things happen all around us, every day.
Not everyone is Catholic, or subscribes to our “rules of conduct”.

I love my kids so much that I throw them “under the bus” so to speak occasionally… but when “thrown”, I know that they’ll have the skills to defend themselves and come out of the situation mentally, morally, and physically clean.

(Geez, I sound like a Boy Scout… oops - I was, and still am!)

I was a Girl Scout, so I appreciate the “sound” of your post.

On the other hand, I taught in a public middle school last year. What I saw, even from the kids who were being raised by solid parents who were giving them what you talk about in your post – these kids, all the kids in the school, were losing their innocence if it weren’t already lost.

Look, I’m all about making sure my son can handle what’s “out there” in life. But I also believe that as a parent, it is my job to protect his innocence. At what point should we introduce our children to the “buses” in life?

Not at an age when they are too young to have any control over their environment. I now teach in an elementary school (a feeder school for the middle school I was at last year). The fourth and fifth graders are constantly “dating” each other, and they have “boyfriends” and “girlfriends.” Many of the girls dress like they are selling something. My son will not be attending this public school.

A very wise friend of mine once said, “There are precious few years when I can control everything that comes into my children’s lives. And I intend to control everything during that period.”

These children were not controlled, their environment was. And they’re perfectly well-adjusted young people.

As a parent, I am not ashamed to say that I am choosing my son’s educational setting to protect his innocence for as long as possible. I believe that is my duty as a parent. He will be allowed to develop as God sees fit, with all his questions and wonderings, and we will deal with the “buses” of life as they arrive, but he may know these as the exception rather than the rule. And he may even have a vision of what society could be, and that vision may influence him to work for transforming society, rather than always being on the defensive to its evils.

Fellow scout and parent, as we work to help our children “be prepared” it does us (and them) well to see that there may be more than one way to prepare.

Just my two cents.

Gert

 

[gmarie21]

Just out of curiosity (and it may just be me, even though I am thinking about home educating my dd) do those of you who do homeschool have your children interact with their cousins who attend traditional schools and who are/maybe exposed to those things which you are trying to protect your children from? Is it really possible to have a whole extended family with the same philosophy about raising the children in the faith and limiting their exposure to the culture?

I am simply asking because I realize that even though I may choose to home school my dd, she plays with her cousins (and second cousins) all the time who I know will be very exposed to the culture. My whole family does not hold the same philosophy as I, but I’m sure not going to deprive my dd of her family (nor myself of my family) because of fear of what she may be exposed to. I hope I’m making sense, it’s a real concern and confussion of mine.

My dd is 2, so I have a few more years ahead of me before finalizing my decision for kindergarten, but I’m curious for those of you who are experienced homeschoolers. In my area there are a few decent Catholic schools and the public schools are excellent. High school, if she weren’t homeschooled, would definitely be Catholic b/c of all the overcrowding in the public schools in this area.

 

[cheddarsox]

Not at an age when they are too young to have any control over their environment. I now teach in an elementary school (a feeder school for the middle school I was at last year). The fourth and fifth graders are constantly “dating” each other, and they have “boyfriends” and “girlfriends.” Many of the girls dress like they are selling something. My son will not be attending this public school.

Not tryint to burst your bubble but this was going on in the Catholic elementary school I attended well over 30 years ago. So, be careful of whatever school you choose, no matter the “style”. Where there are people, there is sin, temptation, etc.

I learned all about sex at the ripe age of 4 in the privacy of our VERY Catholic home, courtesy of my siblings.

I stand very strongly for parental choice and doing the best by our children. I just don’t want anyone EVER to think that they have found or created the “safe” enviornment and they don’t have to worry.

Keep your eyes open, your hearts on the Gospel and your hands clasped in prayer.

 

[leonie]

Just out of curiosity (and it may just be me, even though I am thinking about home educating my dd) do those of you who do homeschool have your children interact with their cousins who attend traditional schools and who are/maybe exposed to those things which you are trying to protect your children from? Is it really possible to have a whole extended family with the same philosophy about raising the children in the faith and limiting their exposure to the culture?

I am simply asking because I realize that even though I may choose to home school my dd, she plays with her cousins (and second cousins) all the time who I know will be very exposed to the culture. My whole family does not hold the same philosophy as I, but I’m sure not going to deprive my dd of her family (nor myself of my family) because of fear of what she may be exposed to. I hope I’m making sense, it’s a real concern and confussion of mine.

My dd is 2, so I have a few more years ahead of me before finalizing my decision for kindergarten, but I’m curious for those of you who are experienced homeschoolers. In my area there are a few decent Catholic schools and the public schools are excellent. High school, if she weren’t homeschooled, would definitely be Catholic b/c of all the overcrowding in the public schools in this area.

We have the cousin factor too, since he lives next door. But, playing together afterschool a couple days a week is not the same as 7 hours straight every day.

But, don’t think of homeschooling as a negative–keeping them away from bad stuff. **Think of it in the positive–exposing them to the beauty of family life, a Catholic curriculum, virtue training, great hsing friends. **

The people I know who homeschool out of fear, don’t stick with it very long. There is a certain motivation to protect, but really it’s more about a lifestyle of family togetherness, virtue training, a love of learning.

The best thing about hsing is the teachable moment. We aren’t in school mode all day. But, since I’m around I can catch these teachable moments.