Public schools anyone?

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cheddarsox said:
I stand very strongly for parental choice and doing the best by our children. I just don’t want anyone EVER to think that they have found or created the “safe” enviornment and they don’t have to worry.

Keep your eyes open, your hearts on the Gospel and your hands clasped in prayer.
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Thanks for the loving reminder.

The school we have in mind is not a Catholic school, but a Waldorf school. The mere fact that people have to pay a lot of money (more than most of the local Catholic schools) to send their children there shows a level of commitment to a lifestyle and philosophy on the part of the other families.

I know that I cannot enforce a timeline for when my son is exposed to certain elements of society. He already knows about many things that I wanted to delay, thanks to an older boy at his baysitter’s. 😦

So I am not about to believe that any environment is completely safe. But of course I am still going to choose the one I think is the best of our options.

Gert (with eyes wide open, heart on the Gospel, and hands clasped in prayer)
 
I vote for homeschooling. Believe me, kids are still exposed
to plenty of “buses”. What about when summer vacation
comes and kids from all kinds of schools stay home? Are
they now being sheltered from the “real” world, or are they
having the time of their lives?

Are we supposed to be voting on this?
 
much appreciation to everyone who has replied to this thread thus far. it has been intriguing to read everyone’s views on this subject. never in a million years did i expect to get so many replies to what was essentially a long-winded 2 cents. i can’t say i’m too suprised at seeing very few people back me up but this is a catholic board and a great majority of catholics do homeschool their kids and/or send them to a catholic school. i realize my wife and i are probably in the minority here

i was discussing this topic with my eldest son the other day and he informed me that one of the students he coached in youth group had attended Brigham Young University and told him she didn’t believe her parents loved her as they had not homeschooled her. my son replied to her that of course her parents loved her, they just trusted her and trusted themselves in their skills as parents that they didn’t need to worry about what school and/or the real world could do to her. i found myself rather startled whilst hearing this—yet i am not suprised as it seems that many parents (including a couple of individuals here sadly) have this mentality that they love their kids more than other parents because they homeschool them. i have always tried to protect my kids and teach them right from wrong. my wife and i DID homeschool our kids, don’t all parents? it is up to us to teach our children morals and ethics and about making the right choices. all we simply did was send them on a 5 hour excursion every day when they learned other things and in essence, put the skills we taught them at home into action. it made them prepared to deal with any situation they might come into contact with in “The Real World” sadly a lot of homeschoolers i have known don’t know how to deal with a lot of life’s little challenges and dilemmas and end up buckling under this sort of pressure and responsibility.

i do not have any problem with those who choose to homeschool their kids and i’m sorry if my post came off that way–i swear this was not my intent.i do realize there are pros and cons to any form of schooling. i am not necessarily a public school advocate. many are failing and are in dire need of funding and resources. all i wished to do was explain the choices my wife and i made for our children and why we made them.

on another note, i would like to hear from some people who were homeschooled themselves. i would be interested to hear your views on this thread as YOU are the ones in the know on this subject more than anyone else… i promise to be open-minded to your views, but please be honest. do you feel you benefitted from home education, did you ever feel you were missing out on anything, did you choose to be homeschooled, what did you like/dislike about it, etc. thanks!

Noel
 
All through highschool my family used MODG. More than often I felt like a guinea pig because the programs just didn’t work well. There was either too much work or too little, and a lot of the times what I had to do wasn’t very clear. Needless to say, homeschooling was not a great experience for me.

I have to agree with NoelM on a lot of what he’s saying about homeschooling. Legit teachers are needed, and very few mothers out there who homeschool are qualified to teach highschoolers their subjects properly. The biggest examples I can think of for that are foreign languages and math. (Latin seems to be an exception to this, though) I always had a problem with simple algebra (we used everything from books to tapes) until going to a community college and taking classes there. Also, learning French through a tape and a book just doesn’t work, you need a real teacher who can actually speak it. My mother was NOT good in math or languages, so I was sunk on both.

Interaction is huge in a highschooler’s life, and it’s quite true that homeschoolers get very little if none at all unless they do extra-curricular activities or take part in a local boys and girls club, etc… I had none of these.

Other side-effects of homeschooling for me involved social awkwardness from a lack of knowing how to communicate with people and fit into a group, a lack of proper study habits in classroom situations, and a “trapped” feeling because home wasn’t home but school and there was no escaping it.

Don’t intend that as a rant… just some of my views on the subject.
 
gwythr—

thankyou for replying. it was insightful to read of your personal experiences. i am sorry your home education experience was such an unfortunate one. i am rather suprised at the lack of extracurriculars you were involved in–i thought this would be something a home schooler parent would encourage their children to get take part in. it’s sad that you were never given such an wonderful opportunity.

i have heard MODG isn’t a particularly good program to use from several people. on other forums many have warned against it. i have my own thoughts on laura berquist but i won’t share them here. if you would like to discuss this further feel free to pm me.
what part of the USA do you hail from? i am from NY and there are good and bad schools like anywhere. the public school system here is above average though.
any other people here who are willing to share their home school experiences?

Noel
 
I was homeschooled all through high school, and I liked it! No, for a long time I didn’t have a “legit” teacher (but now my dad’s a Ph.D. in education, did his thesis on homeschooling). And I did well, w/ a near 4.0 (3.9something). Our area has a great homeschooling population. It’s not huge, but it seems like all the parents help in one way or another, organizing field trips, boys gym, girls gym, scouts, American Heritage Girls (because girl scouts supports abortion–don’t get me wrong, I was a scout until we learned about it). We have two football teams, several basketball and volleyball teams, several newsletters, a library, and a yearbook staffed by students. For the high schoolers we have Games nights, bonfires, square dances, proms, homecoming (I was prom and homecoming princess) and a huge graduation ceremony (we had 39 in class of 06, and I was the vice president) with cap, gown, diploma, invitations, speeches, etc. I was also the organizer for two districts for homeschoolers for the student vote of 04, a job reserved for staff at public/parochial schools. Now, I’m in college with a scholarship, on the dean’s and chancellor’s list, w/ a 4.0 gpa, and this semester I’m carrying 19 credits, with 3 honors program classes. I’m not “sinking” in the real world, so to speak, I feel as if I’m well adjusted, or at least better adjusted than the other students who skip lots of classes and succumb to peer pressure, atheism, etc. “go crazy”.

One of my teachers asked, How do you justify all the socialization when you homeschool to avoid socialization? (or something along that same line). We don’t homeschool to avoid socialization. We think socialization is good, too. But the point is not the quantity of socialization, it’s the quality. I thought I should make that distinction. And, like I said in a different post, there are a few homeschoolers who are “weird”, just like there are a few strange kids in parish and public schools. But I think the main difference between the well adjusted kids and the maladjusted ones are the type of parenting. If your kids go to public, private, or home school, if the parents have high expectations and teach their children well at home, then they’ll do well in school. But if you throw them out there and let them fend for themselves without offering wise parental advice or guidance or discipline, then they will “sink”, no matter the type of education.

Whew! I’ll get down from the lectern now.
 
It is true that family life plays an enormous role in how a student handles his or her academic and social life. But you can’t forget about the individual and his or her own responsibility. There are plenty of people who come from good Catholic families that go nuts in college and beyond. The culture is very strong, and not everyone is wise, mature or religious enough to withstand temptation. I speak from experience here - I was so excited about being on my own when I went to college that I ignored most of what I had been taught by my parents.

But grace abounds still.
 
NoelM said:
. i am not necessarily a public school advocate. many are failing and are in dire need of funding and resources. Noel
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The connection between “failing” and “funding” is dogma. It is also a fallacy. No research has shown that increased funding improves education. In fact, the well-known “Coleman Report” contradicted that mindset.

A school that passes kids to sixth, seventh, eighth grade, then on to high school, irrespective of whether they’ve learned what’s required for the next grade, will find little improvement even if they were to double their spending.

That’s why an education, whether from a public school, a poor little Christian school with uncertified teachers making $19K, or from a well-meaning uncertified parent, can be superb–IF it focuses on the high standards and accountability that cause kids to rise to their potential.

Peace.
John
 
I don’t have a dog in this fight either, as another poster remarked,😉 but I do have opinions.
Some public schools are fantastic. The local ones here vary wildly from one town to the next, & the only Catholic schools are so far away that they are not an option for most people…
There are several Protestant Christian schools around here, and I would no more send a child to any of them, than I would toss my cat into the afore mentioned dogfight…and that is no joke.
Most people in my family homeschool. The vast majority of these kids are, IMHO, amazingly well socialized. But then, I happen to be of the opinion that there is nothing natural about a socialization process that involves segregating everybody by age. The people I have met online who are homeschooled are some of the best educated, best socialized, & the most knowledgeable about their faith, of any group of young people I have ever met, & I applaud their parents.
But, despite the fact that, if I did have a child to educate, I freely admit I would homeschool them,whatever the cost, I have plenty of respect for others who have made other choices. I’m not in their shoes, & I tend to assume that most parents want the best for their kids.
I think the problem I see in this thread is that we are all so busy telling the other person what to do, that we’re not listening to each other…That is sad.
As I’ve said, the only way of schooling kids around here that I am really dead set against are the Protestant Christian schools. (And me a Methodist!)
What can I say? I graduated from public school, & I got an excellent education…(except for math, the teacher of which was of the “just get them through the Regents, who cares if they understand it” school of thought). I was about as “socialized” as Rapunzel,though, because I didn’t meet the standards to be in the “in crowd”.
I just wish that everybody here were able to pull together & get the educational system fixed. Maybe then, we wouldn’t need to be so sharp with one another when this subject arises.

God bless all here.
 
Hey Zooey, great post!

I’d like to hear what others think of the segregation of kids into certain age brackets for socialization–for learning, too.

My great grandma taught in a one room school house. So, public education hasn’t always been segregrated.

I have a kid who is backward socially, but I think he would be much worse in school.
 
We seem to have this false national consciousness that public schools are bad, that public school teachers are bad, blah, blah, blah, and it is so easy to just accept it as common knowledge. And people do it all the time without thinking. In many places (my little town included), there is a higher social status that people attribute (mostly to themselves) for not enrolling their kids in public schools. What I understood the first posting in this thread to say, in a nutshell, was that he rejects those assumptions.

I was a product of fine Benedictine (8 years) and Jesuit (4 years) education in Tacoma, and recently completed an advanced degree at Gonzaga University (Jesuit). I got a great education. There are also great private schools. We have some in our community that provide things the public schools cannot: a) religious education, b) intense daily musical instruction, c) a curriculum based upon agriculture, d) the ability to kick out kids who don’t comply or go along or need special help. We have one private school that says it publicly in their promotional brochure: “Children with behavior problems need not apply.”

I am now the principal of our local public school - Grant Street Elementary in Port Townsend (www.ptsd.wednet.edu/grantstreet) - and have been for the last 16 years. I can tell you that in this town, we offer the most current curriculum, the most well-trained teachers, the most diverse student population, the most diverse instructional program, and in-house specialists in mutliple fields that nobody else has.

But that doesn’t make people bad for choosing home-school or private education. But they shouldn’t do it because they are afraid of the public schools until they have walked through the doors of the school and seen classes and talked to the teachers and the parents who support the kids there.

SoI think what NoelM was saying is that we shouldn’t regurgitate rhetoric - it pollutes our consciousness and actually diminishes the choices that we make. What would be better, or more faith based: Sending your kid to Catholic School because “everyone knows that public schools are bad”; or, knowing that the public school we could send our kid to is really pretty good, and very progressive, but choosing a Catholic education for our child anyway?

Steve Finch, Principal
Grant Street Elementary School
Port Townsend WA
finch@olympus.net
co-founder of “Public Schools ROCK!”
 
Very well said Steve. I totally agree with you. Our public schools rock and we’ve seen more Christian charity in our public school than we did at parochial school, plus better teachers, more enthusiastic staff and a more advanced curriculum. It’s all good.
 
SInce I am discerning our schooling options, this is an interesting thread despite what people feel is contentiousness, and I appreciate everyone’s honesty. Thank you.

I wish I could remember what magazine had this article, I really should dig it up, it was either Envoy or This Rock, but it mentioned the need for Catholic parents and their kids to really evangelize the culture if they are choosing to use the public schools, and how it can be done.

My only problem with not homeschooling is having the additional “burden” of really teaching the faith to my kids after they’ve brought home hours of homework, special projects, etc. How do I fit in an additional hour or more of formation work other than the usual devotions we should do as a family?

As for there being “too much” religion in Catholic HS curriculums, isn’t what true education is about - forming yourself around the faith that sustains you? I just don’t think that public school or even many Catholic schools can do that, but I am open to anything you all have to say. Property taxes are high in many areas, Catholic schools aren’t great in many areas, and public schools are in many areas, so I really do think it is a choice based on circumstance rather than effort or devotion IMHO.
 
Apparently it all depends on which schools you are talking about.

Our son had to leave Catholic school after 6th grade because of his learning disability, which they hadn’t the resources to address. Fine. The public school, after about eight months dithering around, has come up with a plan to help him make it through middle school.
He has also started dressing like a wannabe gansta, learned lots of new words, started treating his sister like dirt, and is flirting with gangs. He now has four counselors involved with him. The police have been to our house several times lately, and I’m not enjoying it. Part of this is his age, but part is the public school influence.
I would put him back in Catholic school in a flash if I could. But that’s just our experience.
Caveat emptor.
 
I’ve noticed, as a parent, that there are a few areas that set us off faster than any other-
  1. breastfeeding/bottlefeeding
  2. vacciantion/non- or selective vaccinations
  3. public/private/homeschool
It’s funny, because while there are lots of areas where we differ, I’ve found that most of the parents I know have a very hard time objectively talking about those three issues.

Case in point: With my first child, I went back to work when she was 6 weeks old. I was breastfeeding her, and so had to pump at work. My milk supply had completely dried up by the time she was 4 months old. I was devestated. Every single time I heard someone talking about “extended breastfeeding” or “relactation” or anything related at all to the subject, I was sure they were looking down at me for using formula with my child. Were they? Maybe, maybe not, but my perception of things made it so I couldn’t discern what from what.

Case in point: I homeschool. My sister-in-law does not. She has told me that she feels so much guilt for not homeschooling that she can’t even talk to me about the subject. Have I said something that made her feel inferior? Maybe, but not intentionally. Can I understand her frustrations and be more sensitive to her? Well, see the above case. As a parent, it is not my job to relieve her guilt, but as a Christian, it IS my job to treat her as an image of God and not look down on her for how she schools her children.

My point is, the schooling issue seems to be such an emotionally charged one that it is hard for us to have a dialogue that is easy and organic. For every “you’re isolating your children from a wealth of experiences and crippling them socially” I have to deal with, some public schooling parent has to deal with a “you’re throwing your child into a lion’s den and he’s going to become a godless druggie” 😉

I look at it the same way I look at the vaccination issue- as parents it is our duty to give informed consent to things that happen to our children. Once you have gotten all the information on the issue, have critically analyzed it, and prayed for God’s guidance, your decision can be called truly informed, and as loving parents, you’re not going to make a bad, informed choice for your children.

Cheers,
Cari
 
Cari, you are so right. It doesn’t have to be an emotional issue. It doesn’t have to be a political issue, either. The point is to be, as you say, informed - and not informed as in: “well this friend says this”, or “this sister says that,” but informed because you have made your own analysis of what is best for you and your child, whether it’s Catholic school or catechism, breast or bottle, public, private, or home school.
 
…ok, the op has “issues” with homeschooling. As a homeschooler, I respect every parents choice to make the best decision for their family. I have never looked down on parents who choose not to homeschool. That being said, I can PROMISE you that if the op lived in my neck of the woods, they would be homeschooling VERY quickly once they saw the state of the public schools in my area. And as for Seton curriculum, it is an accredited homeschool and their material is covered 2 years before the public schools in this area. Dd is 6 and in the second grade…if she was in a traditional school, she would still be in Kindergarden…just fyi:wink:
 
I attended public schools as a kid and, also, 3 yrs of Catholic school and I am grateful that I had both experiences. I do feel that my upbringing as a Catholic was enhanced by attending Catholic school during my middle school times. I did get a better curriculum in the public school which is why we rejected going to a Catholic high school.

I agree there is too much public school bashing going on here in this forum. I, also, agree with a commenter that each situation has its on variations and all are not created equal.

So, less judgemental stuff based on your local experience and get more educated with the big picture? yep, for me

I’m feeling alot of good stuff in this forum and, yes, it is ok to vent and point out stuff that seems wrong from your view.

The bottom line is that we do all this in sincere respect and love for each other even when disagreeing! Amen 😉
 
I think it all depends on the area in which you live. If I lived somemwhere else, i’d check out the public schools. We currently homeschool for a variety of reasons but one of which is that i don’t want my children sitting next to gang-bangers in the classroom and, yes, they are there, even in 4th grade (in my area). I’ve known kids who attended public school who turned otu just fine and I’ve known homeschooled kids who are just plain bad, mean, misbehaving kids. A lot goes into the formation of a child into a functional adult regardless of his/her educational environment. And I agree that it’s up to the parents to choose and their choice should be respected. I’ve told my kids that the decision to homeschool, use public school or catholic school will be entirely up to them and their future respective spouses and that I would back their decision (whatever it is) 100%. the educational choice we make for our children shouldn’t be criticized, it should be supported, IMHO. Every family is different and, let’s face it, to homeschool well isn’t easy and takes a lot of sacrifices. I’m a certified teacher and could be making $125/day out there in a real school butmy husband and I have decided to continue homeschooling where I get paid nothing. however, I wouldn’t change the freedom we have for anything in the world. Nor would I look down my nose at those who send their kids to public school/catholic school/private school, etc. The heart of the homeschooling philosophy is that parents know what’s best for their kids(at least that’s what I thought)
 
I went to public school from K-12, and spent four years at a public university, and 2 years in grad school at a public university in a VERY secular town.

I loved every minute of it…but I know that I went to a very good public school in a good neighborhood. Of course there were some troubled kids, but the Catholic schools in our neighborhood weren’t any better.

I got my faith formation from my parents, Church and catechism (which actually completely failed me and is partially responsible for me being a protestant for a few years - but it was my guidance from my father and my own study, and especially my involvement in some groups at my university that led me back). I never WANTED to be a part of the more immoral crowd. I’m now part of a good, sound, orthodox student parish in the town I went to grad school in. Going to public school hasn’t prevented me from being a faithful Catholic.

On the other hand, my fiance went to all Catholic school, including a Catholic college. He struggled with pornography until about a year ago, was involved in a lot of drinking, partying and dalliances at his college, went to strip clubs and generally became lax in his faith until he moved here and underwent a huge recommitment. However, he also picked up many positive things from having a faith based education where he could take classes on different spiritualities, etc.

So, I recognize that there are positives and negatives for both situations. For me homeschooling isn’t a viable option because we don’t feel comfortable with that responsibility. When I have kids it will largely depend on what the schools are like where we live, and I know that no matter what, there will be temptations So I will not depend on school to give them religious formation, only a good academic grounding and a generally safe environment. It will be up to me and my husband to enrich their faith life, and I won’t let the same thing that happened to me happen to my children in regards to catechism and being totally undereducated.

We’re also big geeks, so we will probably supplement their academic education too 🙂 We’ll be half homeschoolers 🙂
 
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