Public Schools-IndoctriNation

[Scott_D]

Has anyone out there seen the movie IndoctriNation? Its a documentary by Scottish filmmaker focusing on our public schools. Are you of the opinion that climate in our public schools is so bad that we should pull our kids out, or that we should keep our kids in to be salt and light? That is the premise of the movie. Of course, there’s option C-Catholic schools. What do you think?

 

[Aggies08]

No, but someone who has family teaching in p. schools, grew up in them, and works with kids in them, I think people need to exerciser more prudence when generalizing.

Sure, there are crazy schools. There are also very academic-oriented schools (ie not all about political /liberal agendas; the teachers goal is to truly teach).

If one lives in a very conservative area, where most of your population is Christian, then the schools/teachers will reflect these values, even if they are technically secular schools. If one lives in a very liberal area, expect those people working in the schools to reflect those values. Get to know your kids teachers/school; it’s easy to get the feel of a school.

Our local HS has pro-life clubs, prayer clubs, and several other ‘christian’ influenced groups. I have no issue sending my children there. They will be well grounded at home, and well, they may as well be out in the world while they still live at home to ask me questions as things arise.

That’s my 2c.

 

[St_Francis]

I think the decision of sending one’s children to school based on this particular issue depends on the divergence of the school from the parents’ values, how much the schools support rather than subvert the parents in their raising of the children.

I don’t think that children should be expected to be salt and light to the others in the school until they are very firmly grounded in the Truth, all too often the bad kids affect the good ones rather than the other way around.

But the absolutely most important aspect in raising children, in my experience, is the relationship between the parents and the children.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Has anyone out there seen the movie IndoctriNation? Its a documentary by Scottish filmmaker focusing on our public schools. Are you of the opinion that climate in our public schools is so bad that we should pull our kids out, or that we should keep our kids in to be salt and light? That is the premise of the movie. Of course, there’s option C-Catholic schools. What do you think?

I have not seen it, but I know that I would not send my kids to public school now. Catholic schools are hit and miss too. Some are only marginally Catholic and even the academic standards have slipped a lot since my childhood. Maybe when the nuns with rulers left?

Kids should NEVER be placed in a missionary job within their schools! They are not trained in apologetics and as the previous poster said, too often it is the Christian kids who end up losing their own faith under peer pressure. This is not the task of childhood - to go into darkness and bring light. They are there ostensibly to obtain an education, not convert souls. Sure, wherever they go, kids should live out their faith proudly, but to throw your kids into the “lion’s den,” so to speak, is just wrong, IMO.

I believe it is very difficult to teach kids to think, analyze and solve problems for themselves within any institutional school setting. The problems are not limited to government schools - it goes deeper than that, IMO. Just the basic structure of the school day is antithetical to the way we actually learn - learning isn’t done in 50 minute chunks of time. I found it maddening as a substitute teacher that very frequently, just as the students were getting interested in the material and starting to actually process and THINK, it was time for another subject! “Put your math books away, it’s time for English now!” All it trains children to do is switch gears at a moment’s notice and ignore their own desire to actually spend time thinking about ONE SUBJECT until they learn something!

 

[Megan7]

I have not seen it, but I know that I would not send my kids to public school now. Catholic schools are hit and miss too. Some are only marginally Catholic and even the academic standards have slipped a lot since my childhood. Maybe when the nuns with rulers left?

Kids should NEVER be place in a missionary job within their schools! They are not trained in apologetics and as the previous poster said, too often it is the Christian kids who end up losing their own faith under peer pressure. This is not the task of childhood - to go into darkness and bring light. They are there ostensibly to obtain an education, not convert souls. Sure, wherever they go, kids should live out their faith proudly, but to throw your kids into the “lion’s den,” so to speak, is just wrong, IMO.

I believe it is very difficult to teach kids to think, analyze and solve problems for themselves within any institutional school setting. The problems are not limited to government schools - it goes deeper than that, IMO. Just the basic structure of the school day is antithetical to the way we actually learn - learning isn’t done in 50 minute chunks of time. I found it maddening as a substitute teacher that very frequently, just as the students were getting interested in the material and starting to actually process and THINK, it was time for another subject! “Put your math books away, it’s time for English now!” All it trains children to do is switch gears at a moment’s notice and ignore their own desire to actually spend time thinking about ONE SUBJECT until they learn something!

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Has anyone out there seen the movie IndoctriNation? Its a documentary by Scottish filmmaker focusing on our public schools. Are you of the opinion that climate in our public schools is so bad that we should pull our kids out, or that we should keep our kids in to be salt and light? That is the premise of the movie. Of course, there’s option C-Catholic schools. What do you think?

One caveat - I have not seen this film.

But…

Parents should not use their children to push an agenda. No one should place their Catholic kids into any situation - a sports team, a school, anywhere - to “guide others to the Faith.” That’s not their job.

About schools, keep in mind that a kid’s first and most important school is in the home. A child who’s being brought up lovingly and well - morally, physically, religiously, emotionally - will thrive just about anywhere. The term “They learn despite their teachers” is oftentimes used to refer to kids who can make it happen regardless of what’s going on at school. I’m not saying kids aren’t affected by wackadoodle teachers, bullying classmates, and the like, but they typically have better coping skills, support systems, and are more able to take the long view.

Public schools generally reflect the neighborhoods they’re in. Schools in upper-middle class/affluent communities are typically well-appointed, and you don’t have blatant behavior issues or the culture in which education isn’t valued. Schools in poor(er) communities reflect that, and just about every societal problem you find in low-income neighborhoods plays out on their schools’ campuses. How could we expect them not to?

About Catholic schools… I’m an alumna, K-12. My stepdaughters attend one, and we plan on keeping them there until at least 8th grade. But I could not in good conscious enroll them in our community’s sole Catholic high school, which has a reputation for being the school for wealthy families with kids who have problems with behavior or addictions. I’ve read too many newspaper articles and talked with too many parents to enroll the kids there.

Luna

 

[Allegra]

I agree with other posters that a region’s public schools are going to reflect the belief system of the culture it serves. I would be perfectly happy to send my children to the school district I live in. I would certainly keep an eye on the situation to make sure that my child wasn’t being bullied or taught things I found to be morally reprehensible, but as it stands I prefer my local public school to the day school a the parish I live in. Frankly, I find the day school crowd over there snobby and bigoted and I don’t want my children to see that as a Catholic attitude. (and I don’t believe it is a Catholic attitude, I think it is a private school in a fairly afluent neighborhood attitude.) Who knows though? By the time I have to enroll a kid, everything could be different. I also work at an elementary school myself and I’d probably be able to enroll my kids there and really get to see what’s going on!

 

[SamH]

Public schools generally reflect the neighborhoods they’re in. Schools in upper-middle class/affluent communities are typically well-appointed, and you don’t have blatant behavior issues or the culture in which education isn’t valued. Schools in poor(er) communities reflect that, and just about every societal problem you find in low-income neighborhoods plays out on their schools’ campuses. How could we expect them not to?

I always think back to the line in “Waiting for Superman”, when the narrator asks if we have bad schools because of bad neighborhoods or if we have bad neighborhoods because of the bad schools.

 

[Scott_D]

We homeschool 5 out of our 6 kids. When our oldest became a freshman, we let her go to our local high school which is half public, half private. The school has a reputation for rigorous academic standards and good discipline. She has excelled there, however, she found that she and other former home schoolers were much more mature than most of the others in her class. We have also found that though we live in central Maine, where the kids are still pretty old fashioned, there is what I would call a mania about sex. I went to a public school and I know that’s nothing new. The difference that I can see is that now the girls are so brassy and they talk about it in the same way that guys do. That is, crudely and piggishly. Our daughter has used her faith and defended it regularly and bravely. She never would have had that opportunity had she stayed at home. However, the toxic environment of constant focus on sex by her peers and the social dramas propagated by some of her friends is wearing on her. We are contemplating pulling her out for the last two years.

 

[Scott_D]

Here’s a link to the movie’s website:
indoctrinationmovie.com/
I’ve watched about half of it and there is no Catholic perspective thus far, which is why I wanted to get the opinion of my Catholic sisters and brothers.

 

[mccartyj]

I have heard of it but have not been able to watch it. Very interested in everyone’s opinion as well. My daughter will most likely go to our parish school (it is tuition free at the moment for parish members) but could change. I do not want to send her to the public school at all. I wanted to homeschool but my husband will not allow that.

Jessica in Indiana

 

[_Jenn]

I’ve heard of it, but have not seen it.

My son has a 1/2 day left of school this year. He will be moving on to middle school (5th grade) next year. I will (as will he) miss his school dearly after tomorrow. He attends public school, and his K-4 years have been amazing. He has had loving, Christian teachers who provided him with just the sort of start to an education children should receive.

Obviously as he gets older, that’s when the worries come in to play more (at least, IMO). We shall see what each year brings, and have to trust in how we are raising him and the wonderful young man he is thus far. Lots of prayer over the summer as we look forward to the new year, and prayers with him each morning before he goes to school.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

We homeschool 5 out of our 6 kids. When our oldest became a freshman, we let her go to our local high school which is half public, half private. The school has a reputation for rigorous academic standards and good discipline. She has excelled there, however, she found that she and other former home schoolers were much more mature than most of the others in her class. We have also found that though we live in central Maine, where the kids are still pretty old fashioned, there is what I would call a mania about sex. I went to a public school and I know that’s nothing new. The difference that I can see is that now the girls are so brassy and they talk about it in the same way that guys do. That is, crudely and piggishly. Our daughter has used her faith and defended it regularly and bravely. She never would have had that opportunity had she stayed at home. However, the toxic environment of constant focus on sex by her peers and the social dramas propagated by some of her friends is wearing on her. We are contemplating pulling her out for the last two years.

What is a half public, half private high school??? I cannot imagine how that would work. Who runs it? Who pays for it? Weird!

Yes, not only do girls TALK about sex the way boys do, they also CARRY IT OUT the way boys do. In fact a lot of girls are MORE aggressive than boys!

 

[fuzzypjs]

There are bad schools and bad teachers everywhere. Catholic Schools included. Use caution and be involved no matter where your kids go!!

 

[Kelfa28]

I have seen the film.

It is not Catholic. I believe the film maker is baptist and he is a proponent of homeschooling.

There is no mention of Catholic schools at all in the film.

 

[PaulinVA]

Parents should not use their children to push an agenda. No one should place their Catholic kids into any situation - a sports team, a school, anywhere - to “guide others to the Faith.” That’s not their job.

I disagree. Everyone should be prepared to give an age-appropriate defense of the Catholic faith.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I disagree. Everyone should be prepared to give an age-appropriate defense of the Catholic faith.

Parents teaching children to be able to defend their faith is not the same thing as positioning their children to further a particular political or social agenda, which is what I was responding to. Parents who enroll their children in a public school, or any school really, with the intention of having their kids do anything but be students are doing their children a disservice. Few kids want or (more importantly) need that kind of “bringing the Light to the heathens” missionary expectation placed on them on them during school hours. That their children are not trained in apologetics and will have no social/emotional support system for this endeavor while they’re at school also is something parents need to consider.

Kids already have enough going on when they get to school. They have to learn to navigate various social circles in ways that are physically and emotionally safe for them. They have to learn to get along with and meet the expectations of up to a dozen adults who are in a position to strongly influence their academic, musical, theatrical/artistic, and athletic futures. They have to learn content from six or seven subject areas. They have to learn to successfully work with dozens of peers. And they have to make and keep friendships. To expect them to do more than that, to expect them to do all of that plus be little missionaries, could very well be setting them up for failure in all those areas.

My two cents, Catholic parents - in addition to Catechism - should teach their kids to conduct themselves publicly in a (paraphrased) “Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.” manner and leave it at that. If when they’re adults their kids discern a calling to more actively bring others to the Faith, they can then receive the training and support they need to accomplish this effectively.

Luna

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Parents teaching children to be able to defend their faith is not the same thing as positioning their children to further a particular political or social agenda, which is what I was responding to. Parents who enroll their children in a public school, or any school really, with the intention of having their kids do anything but be students are doing their children a disservice. Few kids want or (more importantly) need that kind of “bringing the Light to the heathens” missionary expectation placed on them on them during school hours. That their children are not trained in apologetics and will have no social/emotional support system for this endeavor while they’re at school also is something parents need to consider.

Kids already have enough going on when they get to school. They have to learn to navigate various social circles in ways that are physically and emotionally safe for them. They have to learn to get along with and meet the expectations of up to a dozen adults who are in a position to strongly influence their academic, musical, theatrical/artistic, and athletic futures.** They have to learn content from six or seven subject areas.** They have to learn to successfully work with dozens of peers. And they have to make and keep friendships. To expect them to do more than that, to expect them to do all of that plus be little missionaries, could very well be setting them up for failure in all those areas.

My two cents, Catholic parents - in addition to Catechism - should teach their kids to conduct themselves publicly in a (paraphrased) “Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.” manner and leave it at that. If when they’re adults their kids discern a calling to more actively bring others to the Faith, they can then receive the training and support they need to accomplish this effectively.

Luna

Kids are in school primarily to LEARN the material! Not to evangelize! I agree with you, except you need to put that one FIRST in the line up of what kids are in school to achieve!

 

[PaulinVA]

My two cents, Catholic parents - in addition to Catechism - should teach their kids to conduct themselves publicly in a (paraphrased) “Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.” manner and leave it at that. If when they’re adults their kids discern a calling to more actively bring others to the Faith, they can then receive the training and support they need to accomplish this effectively.

Luna

I agree with this. It’s all I was saying. But, when called on, the kids should be able to explain our beliefs.

 

[Z1Z2]

My kids go to public school. They are receiving a fine education. Their classmates are good kids from decent families. Furthermore, the whole school is a far more welcoming environment than the local Catholic school. We spent 3 years there, and it was like junior high cliques all over again (which I experienced in a Catholic school, btw). Until you’ve been in all public schools, you can’t say ‘all public schools are bad’. Likewise, until you have been in all Catholic schools, you can’t say they are all good.