Published anti-Catholicism from a Mormon in place of business!

[why_me]

Parents, Parents, Parents!!!

Do not under any circumstance allow your children to be around any mormons during their formative years. This is spiritual suicide. Are you crazy or what?

Remember the bigger the lie the more people will believe it.

Actually, the woman was off base and since we are all imperfect, she should be forgiven. I believe that she learned a lesson. However, I have a hard time believing this story is true. Any person who publishes such things is either crazy, looney or insensitive. But I still have a difficult time believing the story. It just seems to risky in this day an age to publish such things.

 

[Indyann]

Wonderful! Now can we please get the antimormon catholics on this thread and section of the board to apologize for what they said about mormons during the last year?

No apology needed for telling the truth!

 

[Philothea53]

Actually, the woman was off base and since we are all imperfect, she should be forgiven. I believe that she learned a lesson. However, I have a hard time believing this story is true. Any person who publishes such things is either crazy, looney or insensitive. But I still have a difficult time believing the story. It just seems to risky in this day an age to publish such things.

So in your previous post you are asking Catholics on a Catholic board to apologize for debating what they believe to be a false religion then your next post calls the OP of this thread a liar. Interesting perspective you have.

 

[SFLCatholic]

Any comments?

I say congratulations on standing up for yourself, your family, your beliefs and ALL of us Catholics and Catholicism in general.

It reminds me of Jesus getting mad in the Temple.

Good Going!!!

 

[SFLCatholic]

You have just taught your kids that intolerance is good for fighting intolerance…

Then I guess Jesus taught us intolerance when He got mad at the merchants in the Temple.

But; I don’t think you are in high school anymore either, you need to role model better for your kids. They need to learn better ways of responding to nasty things said to them or about them.

Hogwash. No, double & triple hogwash!

You are a perfect example to your kids. You just taught them to stand up and fight for what you believe in.

Good for you Lehl!

 

[why_me]

So in your previous post you are asking Catholics on a Catholic board to apologize for debating what they believe to be a false religion then your next post calls the OP of this thread a liar. Interesting perspective you have.

Not really. It is just that I have a hard time believing it. In fact, I find it absurd that a person in this day and age would do such a thing. Did it happen. I don’t know. But it does sound unbelievable. But like I said, the woman was way off base if it did. She must need help and sympathy is truly so.

 

[zerinus]

Not really. It is just that I have a hard time believing it. In fact, I find it absurd that a person in this day and age would do such a thing. Did it happen. I don’t know. But it does sound unbelievable. But like I said, the woman was way off base if it did. She must need help and sympathy is truly so.

I am going to have to agree with you on that. It is not in the cultural tradition of LDS to be disrespectful to other churches and religions. You can go to the LDS website, where there is masses and masses of literature written and spoken by LDS; and there is nothing derogatory there said of any church or religion. I whish that was true of other churches.

zerinus

 

[Lehl]

Why Me and Zerinus,

Give me both of your email addresses and I’ll scan a copy for you both.

Perhaps I should just give you her email address/website so that you can ask her yourselves whether or not she printed it?

She’s in her 70’s at my best guestimate. She’s an old-time Mormon. Therefore, political correctness is not something this generation really latched onto. Also, I suspect she’s the result of McConkie’s teachings as well.

 

[Lehl]

Actually, I just scanned it and I’ll post it here. I blacked out identifying information.

The first page features cartoons and a schedule and information about all of the current and upcoming performances at the theater.

This is page 2 containing comments about a movie she’s never seen nor will ever see with her Mormon prosyletizing:


This is page 3:


Now I suppose Zerinus and Why Me will still accuse me of being a liar and say I must have written it myself or something. I’m sorry, but I couldn’t write that September Dawn material without hurling.

On a much lighter note, I must say that I have a “Mormonish” testimony of sorts to share with you all!

Last Saturday I brought my daughter to an audition at the best dinner theater company in town. We barely found out about the audition the day before and she had no real rehearsal and preparation. Despite that, and despite 30-40 other spectacular kid auditions, my daughter landed the lead kid role! :extrahappy:

God does reward his faithful servants and I KNOW the Catholic Church is TRUE.

 

[zerinus]

Actually, I just scanned it and I’ll post it here. I blacked out identifying information.

The first page features cartoons and a schedule and information about all of the current and upcoming performances at the theater.

This is page 2 containing comments about a movie she’s never seen nor will ever see with her Mormon prosyletizing:

This is page 3:

Now I suppose Zerinus and Why Me will still accuse me of being a liar and say I must have written it myself or something. I’m sorry, but I couldn’t write that September Dawn material without hurling.

On a much lighter note, I must say that I have a “Mormonish” testimony of sorts to share with you all!

Last Saturday I brought my daughter to an audition at the best dinner theater company in town. We barely found out about the audition the day before and she had no real rehearsal and preparation. Despite that, and despite 30-40 other spectacular kid auditions, my daughter landed the lead kid role! :extrahappy:

God does reward his faithful servants and I KNOW the Catholic Church is TRUE.

No, I wouldn’t accuse you of lying. This appears to be written by someone quite ignorant not only of Catholicism, but also of Mormonism and the Church’s stance towards other religions. She also appears to be very immature and undiplomatic, being in a public role in which people of other religions may be involved. There is no reason to blame the Church for that. As I said above, go to the LDS website, and see if you can find anything derogatory abut Catholicism—or any other religions for that matter—and then you will have something to complain about. The Vatican website (which is pretty decent by comparison with others) contains some derogatory materials against LDS, and other churches and religions. But you won’t find it on the LDS website. In the above scenario, the right thing to have done would have been to correct her mistake with patience, kindness, correct information, and setting her a good example; not by flying off the handle and taking your kids away. By your actions you merely reinforced her prejudices against Catholicism, instead of teaching her to know better.

zerinus

 

[USAN266H]

I am impressed and touched by your courage and willingness to express understandable anger. I have for too long let similar things go. No more.

Also, I have been looking for a passage in the Book of Mormon that I remember from about 30 years ago. I can’t find it now in the obviously edited current volumes; however, it had to do with the Roman Catholic Church. Joseph Smith, or whoever wrote the Book of Mormon, called the Catholic Church the “whore of the earth” and described it euphemistically as being situated on 7 hills, supposedly referring to the Seven Hills of Rome. I think it was in 2nd Nephi, but I can’t locate it. Can you or anyone help me?

 

[dosdog]

I am impressed and touched by your courage and willingness to express understandable anger. I have for too long let similar things go. No more.

Also, I have been looking for a passage in the Book of Mormon that I remember from about 30 years ago. I can’t find it now in the obviously edited current volumes; however, it had to do with the Roman Catholic Church. Joseph Smith, or whoever wrote the Book of Mormon, called the Catholic Church the “whore of the earth” and described it euphemistically as being situated on 7 hills, supposedly referring to the Seven Hills of Rome. I think it was in 2nd Nephi, but I can’t locate it. Can you or anyone help me?

Orson Pratt proclaimed: “Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent” (The Seer, p. 255).
leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/onlytrue.html

Orson Pratt (September 19, 1811 – October 3, 1881) was a leader in the Latter Day Saint movement and an original member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles

Later in the same book Apostle McConkie expanded on the doctrine a bit:

…speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, [Nephi] designated the Catholic Church as “the mother of harlots” (1 Nephi 13:34; 14:15-17), a title which means that the protestant churches, the harlot daughters which broke off from the great and abominable church, would themselves be apostate churches.”

irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-authority-claims-of-LDS-leaders.html

 

[zerinus]

Orson Pratt proclaimed: “Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent” (The Seer, p. 255).
leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/onlytrue.html

Orson Pratt (September 19, 1811 – October 3, 1881) was a leader in the Latter Day Saint movement and an original member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles

Later in the same book Apostle McConkie expanded on the doctrine a bit:

…speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, [Nephi] designated the Catholic Church as “the mother of harlots” (1 Nephi 13:34; 14:15-17), a title which means that the protestant churches, the harlot daughters which broke off from the great and abominable church, would themselves be apostate churches.”

irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-authority-claims-of-LDS-leaders.html

If you want to dredge up the past, you can do a much better job with Catholicism than with Mormonism.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

If you want to dredge up the past, you can do a much better job with Catholicism than with Mormonism.

zerinus

Here is the challenge: can you accept it?

1. You must include at least 3000 grammatical and spelling errors, even if you use a secretary to transcribe your dictation. Now this is going to be really hard, because where are you going to find such an ignorant secretary?

Good luck on that one.

1. Your “history” must be 531 pages long, and must use the phrase “and it came to pass” 3,856 times.
2. You must come up with a good explanation as to why filler such as “and it came to pass” would be so frequently repeated if your history is supposed to have come from gold plates where space was at a premium.
3. Once your book is published you are only allowed to change it 3500 times for grammatical and spelling errors and 500 times for doctrinal, historical or other substantive inconsistencies.
4. Your “history” must replace the actual millions of inhabitants of the ancient Americas during this time period with fictitious nations, including one nation founded by refugees from the mythical tower of Babylon who came to the Americas on a barge with holes in the top and the bottom and two other nations founded by “Jews” who know next to nothing about Jewish dietary or religious practices. (I told you this was going to be harder than Nibley’s challenge.)
5. You must describe the inhabitants of America and their religious, economic, political and social and cultural institutions in such way that they don’t in any way represent the religious, political, social and cultural institutions of the actual inhabitants of ancient America. Even make up some names of coins that were never used by the actual inhabitants of America.

Throw in some animals that are only in the Americas post-Columbus and make up some funny names of non-existent animals too, like Cureloms.

1. Make sure you plagiarize from more than one section of the Bible, and from various other sources, so that your claim that many ancient authors contributed to the book can later be trumpeted by apologists.
   macgregorministries.org/mormons/bom_challenge.html

 

[Lehl]

No, I wouldn’t accuse you of lying. This appears to be written by someone quite ignorant not only of Catholicism, but also of Mormonism and the Church’s stance towards other religions. She also appears to be very immature and undiplomatic, being in a public role in which people of other religions may be involved. There is no reason to blame the Church for that. As I said above, go to the LDS website, and see if you can find anything derogatory abut Catholicism—or any other religions for that matter—and then you will have something to complain about. The Vatican website (which is pretty decent by comparison with others) contains some derogatory materials against LDS, and other churches and religions. But you won’t find it on the LDS website. In the above scenario, the right thing to have done would have been to correct her mistake with patience, kindness, correct information, and setting her a good example; not by flying off the handle and taking your kids away. By your actions you merely reinforced her prejudices against Catholicism, instead of teaching her to know better.
zerinus

Zerinus,

I did NOT “blame the [LDS] church” for what she wrote. She’s completely responsible for what she published. Although if I think about it in broader terms…she certainly didn’t arrive at this point in a vaccuum. Hello? She’s a McConkie Mormon!

Are we to blame McConkie then? I’d be willing to bet she has a 1st edition of Mormon Doctrine.

She has written exactly what I would expect from an older-generation Mormon. Albeit a CRAZY one who obviously doesn’t know better that one should not publish religious beliefs AGAINST another religion in a newsletter to her customers, actors, etc. and distribute that newsletter in an area where that religion is the predominant religion and expect to retain those customers!

I have personally been under a heck of a lot of stress for several months and from several different sources. This incident was more or less the straw that broke the camel’s back this particular week for me. Perhaps I did “fly off the handle” because I did something totally out of character. Normally I would have NEVER have made a scene like I did by yanking those kids during a performance.

I wanted to ignore and forget what I had just read. Believe me, I desperately did. But I knew I couldn’t.

I also knew that I could not sit through that whole play with those words staring up at me and mocking me while my children made money for her and her theater.

I posted about how my husband talked to her and explained why what she published was very offensive and totally incorrect. He further invited her to RCIA. Do we really expect we’d change her opinion on Catholicism this late in her life? NAH. You can’t teach old dogs new tricks. Perhaps and hopefully she did realize at the very least that it was a mistake to publish and distribute her opinions to an unknown audience.

 

[why_me]

Orson Pratt (September 19, 1811 – October 3, 1881) was a leader in the Latter Day Saint movement and an original member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles

Later in the same book Apostle McConkie expanded on the doctrine a bit:

…speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, [Nephi] designated the Catholic Church as “the mother of harlots” (1 Nephi 13:34; 14:15-17), a title which means that the protestant churches, the harlot daughters which broke off from the great and abominable church, would themselves be apostate churches.”

The book Mormon Doctrine contained two basic problems. First, the book regardless of its title was not doctrine. Second, the church leadership were very critical of the book when it was published. The second edition contained major changes and Bruce McConkie was put on the carpet for the book. The title of the book contained the problem.

However, we need to remember that Doctrine is found in the sriptures of the lds church. Leaders and members can publish books but it is not necessarily doctrine when the book is published.

Now I do know old timers who still basically look to Mormon Doctrine for answers. But they shouldn’t. The book is not doctrine.

 

[why_me]

I am impressed and touched by your courage and willingness to express understandable anger. I have for too long let similar things go. No more.

Also, I have been looking for a passage in the Book of Mormon that I remember from about 30 years ago. I can’t find it now in the obviously edited current volumes; however, it had to do with the Roman Catholic Church. Joseph Smith, or whoever wrote the Book of Mormon, called the Catholic Church the “whore of the earth” and described it euphemistically as being situated on 7 hills, supposedly referring to the Seven Hills of Rome. I think it was in 2nd Nephi, but I can’t locate it. Can you or anyone help me?

Actually this is not true. The section deals with the abominable church. I remember when I was a teenager this was described by members as communism, catholicism, materialism etc. It was very unclear just what exactly was the great abominable church. And it still is. There has never been clarification or revelation just what it is but there has been some guess work and speculation.

As this thread proves, speculation is a part of our species.

 

[dosdog]

The book Mormon Doctrine contained two basic problems. First, the book regardless of its title was not doctrine. Second, the church leadership were very critical of the book when it was published. The second edition contained major changes and Bruce McConkie was put on the carpet for the book. The title of the book contained the problem.

However, we need to remember that Doctrine is found in the sriptures of the lds church. Leaders and members can publish books but it is not necessarily doctrine when the book is published.

Now I do know old timers who still basically look to Mormon Doctrine for answers. But they shouldn’t. The book is not doctrine.

Brigham Young - “I will make a statement here that has been brought against me as a crime, perhaps, or as a fault in my life. Not here, I do not allude to anything of the kind in this place, but in the councils of nations – that Brigham Young has said ‘when he sends forth his discourses to the world they may call them Scripture.’ I say now, when they are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible, and if you want to read revelation read the sayings of him who knows the mind of God.” Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 264 (1870)

irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-authority-claims-of-LDS-leaders.html

 

[why_me]

During the early days of the LDS church there was much talk and speculation. Also, members in authority were not shy to write their thoughts down on paper. But much were just that…thoughts.

The church was relatively young and its leader Joseph Smith was murdered. Even during Joseph Smith’s time, he himself was working his way through the knowledge he was receiving. I cannot stress more the human nature of the lds church. The lds church is made up of human beings, as the catholic church. This is why I am very uncritical of negatives within the catholic church caused by human imperfections in thought and action.

 

[why_me]

Brigham Young - “I will make a statement here that has been brought against me as a crime, perhaps, or as a fault in my life. Not here, I do not allude to anything of the kind in this place, but in the councils of nations – that Brigham Young has said ‘when he sends forth his discourses to the world they may call them Scripture.’ I say now, when they are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible, and if you want to read revelation read the sayings of him who knows the mind of God.” Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 264 (1870)

irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-authority-claims-of-LDS-leaders.html

The problem with pasting is context. I have no idea of the context. Nor does it make any sense as it now stands in your quotation. Regardless of what he said, his discourses were not canonized. And this is the point. No one studies the discourses of BY as scripture. And I don’t believe that his discourses were ever studied as canonized scripture. Talk is cheap but action speaks louder than words.