Punishment not fitting the crime

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So some countries have extreme forms of punishment for minor crimes, like cutting off a hand for stealing an apple or execution of a woman for speaking to a man, etc.

Can hell also be seen as some sort of “excessive” punishment for sin?

I mean, hell is FOREVER. Torment, torture, the worst pain ever. Forever.
Is this punishment not “fitting” for the crime of sin, or, as I write this, I’m thinking I don’t have a grasp of how “bad” sin really is…

Is hell an excessive punishment for sin?
 
HeWillProvide said:
So some countries have extreme forms of punishment for minor crimes, like cutting off a hand for stealing an apple or execution of a woman for speaking to a man, etc.

Can hell also be seen as some sort of “excessive” punishment for sin?

I mean, hell is FOREVER. Torment, torture, the worst pain ever. Forever.
Is this punishment not “fitting” for the crime of sin, or, as I write this, I’m thinking I don’t have a grasp of how “bad” sin really is…

Is hell an excessive punishment for sin?
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Only if you believe that God isn’t just.
 
Well, it certianly sounds like your on to something.

Too many people (Catholics, in particular) almost seem to enjoy the thought of other people burning for eternity. I don’t. It terrifies me. Even the worst among people-I hope-there is some way they can be saved. They need to be punished, and hell is a good start, but eternity? That’s a mighty long time.

Yes, sin needs to be punished. I pray it’s not eternal, but I trust God to know more about this stuff than me.
 
HeWillProvide said:
So some countries have extreme forms of punishment for minor crimes, like cutting off a hand for stealing an apple or execution of a woman for speaking to a man, etc.

Can hell also be seen as some sort of “excessive” punishment for sin?

I mean, hell is FOREVER. Torment, torture, the worst pain ever. Forever.
Is this punishment not “fitting” for the crime of sin, or, as I write this, I’m thinking I don’t have a grasp of how “bad” sin really is…

Is hell an excessive punishment for sin?
Click to expand...
Not at all. Actually hell is less punishment than strict justice would require. Hell is a punishment of infinite duration because it is the punishment for mortal sin against God, who is infinite.

None of us will really have an appreciation for the gravity of sin until our Judgment but we can still pray for the grace to have a horror of sin. Everything horrible in our world today is the result of one “little” sin of Adam. A single sin made demons out of angels. Do not despair of the mercy of God but try to meditate on the real horror of sin.
 
Rascalking said:
Well, it certianly sounds like your on to something.

Too many people (Catholics, in particular) almost seem to enjoy the thought of other people burning for eternity. I don’t. It terrifies me. Even the worst among people-I hope-there is some way they can be saved. They need to be punished, and hell is a good start, but eternity? That’s a mighty long time.

Yes, sin needs to be punished. I pray it’s not eternal, but I trust God to know more about this stuff than me.
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But there are two points y’all aren’t considering.

Point A: Hell is not so much as punishment as a consequence. The absence of God leads to the consequence of infinite suffering but it is freely chosen suffering because the elevation of one’s will ‘over’ God is to be infinitely preferred and is the ultimate ‘goal’ of the person in hell.

Point B: Since one in hell is constantly, infinitely ‘turning away’ from and defying God, the ‘sin’ is ongoing.

It’s not as though a person sinned for say 10 years (even a very bad sin) but that was ‘only’ 10 years out of life and only ‘part’ of the life was involved with the sin, therefore ‘eternal punishment’ is ‘unjust.’

No, rather the person in hell is not there because of ‘10 temporal years of sin.’ He is there because at death, and then forever on, for eternity, he is CONTINUING to reject God and to commit mortal sin and evil. Eternally sinning, not just a few years’ worth.

That person could have sinned his whole life but if he REPENTED at death, rejected hell and chose God, he is gaining heaven. Wow, talk about an ‘unjust reward’ instead of unjust punishment here!

How many of y’all think that provided we don’t act like Hitler, don’t kick puppies, and support all the ‘best’ causes, that we somehow DESERVE heaven? That because we did 10 years worth of ‘good deeds’ we should be rewarded with infinite happiness? Hmmm?

But the person who chooses heaven is forever doing good by doing God’s will, so his/her life in heaven is not for ‘10 years of good deeds’ but for an ETERNITY of good deeds.

And the person in hell is there for an ETERNITY of evil deeds.

Sounds pretty fair to me!
 
Rascalking said:
Well, it certianly sounds like your on to something.

Too many people (Catholics, in particular) almost seem to enjoy the thought of other people burning for eternity. I don’t. It terrifies me. Even the worst among people-I hope-there is some way they can be saved. They need to be punished, and hell is a good start, but eternity? That’s a mighty long time.

Yes, sin needs to be punished. I pray it’s not eternal, but I trust God to know more about this stuff than me.
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It’s eternal, but it’s also perfectly just. Those who are there permentantly rejected salvation, and nothing will change their minds about it.
 
Both posts that quoted me might be logically correct, but it still breaks my heart to think that someone - anyone - will be suffering there eternally.

There’s a heartbeat to life too my friends. Not just a cold, uncaring type feeling.
 
Rascalking said:
Both posts that quoted me might be logically correct, but it still breaks my heart to think that someone - anyone - will be suffering there eternally.

There’s a heartbeat to life too my friends. Not just a cold, uncaring type feeling.
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Yes, it is heart breaking… It is for me as well, as it should be for all of us. However, that doesn’t change the nature of hell, and the fact that those souls who go there are indeed there forever.

God in his mercy however has devised a great plan to keep us out of there. There is purgatory for those who still need purification after death, but have not fundamentally rejected God in a way deserving of eternal punishment.
 
crazzeto said:
Yes, it is heart breaking… It is for me as well, as it should be for all of us. However, that doesn’t change the nature of hell, and the fact that those souls who go there are indeed there forever.

God in his mercy however has devised a great plan to keep us out of there. There is purgatory for those who still need purification after death, but have not fundamentally rejected God in a way deserving of eternal punishment.
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Thanks for at least seeing my point that it’s heartbreaking. I pray as few people as possible end up there.

Exceptions made for Yankee fans and that jerk who cut me off in traffic today. 😉

God bless.
 
hewillprovide:yes your right.you dont have a grasp of how bad sin is.One can look at the sufferings of Christ and get some idea of the gravity of sin.But not the whole picture.Many believe Christ’s mental suffering was worse than the physical suffering. No one can estimate that.Perhaps some saints have a greater idea than most other mortals.
 
Rascalking said:
Both posts that quoted me might be logically correct, but it still breaks my heart to think that someone - anyone - will be suffering there eternally.

There’s a heartbeat to life too my friends. Not just a cold, uncaring type feeling.
Click to expand...
And you think we don’t care because we emphasize that God is both JUST and merciful? I think you’re misjudging us and assuming that we don’t care.

But I also tend to C.S. Lewis’ idea that points out the dangers of being so ‘sympathetic’ that we allow the tyranny of evil.

I’ll give an example.

A woman died and went to heaven where she exists in joy and love.
Her husband died and went to either purgatory or hell. For C.S. Lewis, the possibility was that this person (husband) was in purgatory.

The woman and man were allowed to meet. She greeted him with joy and begged him to ‘come with her’.

He rather complained that while HE was ‘suffering’ (his free choice) SHE should not be ALLOWED to be happy until HE was happy.

(This right here is pretty much the mindset of many who wonder how they could be happy if their loved ones were in hell).

And C. S. Lewis said that if this were the case, then evil would triumph over good and hold it hostage, that like a dog in the manger it would neither permit others to be happy nor choose happiness itself and demand that everything submit to its own anger and pain. . .

So we can be sorry for those in hell but not at the expense of thinking that we have to ‘give up’ our own heaven lest we be ‘happy’ and they ‘not.’

I can pray that all be saved (and I do), and since I don’t know for sure anybody is definitely in hell I don’t have to picture how ‘sad’ I would be if somebody were there while I was in heaven.

I can simply pray for all to cooperate with God, but I am not about to allow evil to dominate my thoughts or affect mine or anybody else’s ‘hereafter’ with wrong ideas.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
And you think we don’t care because we emphasize that God is both JUST and merciful? I think you’re misjudging us and assuming that we don’t care.
.
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Ahh, Tantum. The one person whom I agree with on everything-I’ve missed our chats. (sarcasm and sense of humor needed to understand that sentence)

No, I never implied or said that someone else wasn’t caring. Relax.
 
I believe in everlasting Hell because our LORD said there was one, and I trust HIM.

I would love it if Hell were the town in Michigan and no more:); but for me, it’s not what any of us feels, it’s what HE said. It should be so for everybody.

Trust in HIM and, like HIS companion in death, you will have nothing to fear from Hell.

ICXC NIKA
 
The fact that something is hideous doesn’t make it untrue; if that were the case, there would be no physical death.

ICXC NIKA
 
Rascalking said:
Ahh, Tantum. The one person whom I agree with on everything-I’ve missed our chats. (sarcasm and sense of humor needed to understand that sentence)

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Sugar, thank you, that made my day.

Seriously though, I promise faithfully that I will spend time tonight after prayers trying to think more of others and to pray that they are not subjected to hell. . .
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Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of Your mercy. Amen.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
But there are two points y’all aren’t considering.

Point A: Hell is not so much as punishment as a consequence. The absence of God leads to the consequence of infinite suffering but it is freely chosen suffering because the elevation of one’s will ‘over’ God is to be infinitely preferred and is the ultimate ‘goal’ of the person in hell.
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True. People say, “How can God send people to Hell?” But God sends no one to Hell – they send themselves. Escape from the sensible presence of God is a relief to them, we see this in the devils. In an exorcism, the exorcist tries to make the devil desire hell because it is more painful being in a person who is constantly being blessed and surrounded by holy things. Holiness is more painful to the damned than hell.
Apoc 6:15-17:
And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and tribunes, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of mountains:

And they say to the mountains and the rocks: Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth upon the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of their wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?
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The death of a sinner is a horrific thing. They see the devils who have come to claim the soul that belongs to them but even worse is going into the presence of God to be judged! Sinners don’t want to be in Heaven, they don’t want God. God is merciful to let them have their wish. There is nothing they can say at the judgment, God is not like a human judge where you can perjure and weasel your way out of punishment – there is no excuse, God knows everything you have done and so He will show you your sins.

People’s wills are bound at the moment of their death. Once you die, there is no more time, there is no time to change your mind, the hour of mercy is up and it is time for the hour of judgment. The blessed continue to worship God for ever and ever and the damned continue to blaspheme God for ever and ever.
St. Catherine of Genoa:
When I look at God, I see no gate to Paradise, and yet because God is all mercy he who wills enters there. God stands before us with open arms to receive us into His glory. But well I see the divine essence to be of such purity, greater far than can be imagined, that the soul in which there is even the least note of imperfection would rather cast itself into a thousand Hells than find itself thus stained in the presence of the Divine Majesty.
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Rascalking said:
Both posts that quoted me might be logically correct, but it still breaks my heart to think that someone - anyone - will be suffering there eternally.

There’s a heartbeat to life too my friends. Not just a cold, uncaring type feeling.
Click to expand...
That’s why you must work and offer prayers and sacrifices to save souls from Hell, as Our Lady said at Fatima.
 
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