punishment of apostasy in islam;some authentic references

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the punishment of apostasy is death in islam.sura4:88,89.it ordered that who leaved islam,catch them and kill them where ever they found and don’t make friends with them or even don’t take them as helper.now my muslim fellows have you any answer?it is the real peace and tolerance,correct?here christian fellows can read those verses.i think as an ex muslim mr.angelos knows about this verses.and i will be back soon with more references.
 
morning_star777 said:
the punishment of apostasy is death in islam.sura4:88,89.it ordered that who leaved islam,catch them and kill them where ever they found and don’t make friends with them or even don’t take them as helper.now my muslim fellows have you any answer?it is the real peace and tolerance,correct?here christian fellows can read those verses.i think as an ex muslim mr.angelos knows about this verses.and i will be back soon with more references.
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you will be hard pressed getting a response to this one…
Or they will twist the meaning of it, one of the other. 😉
 
One Muslim poster who is no longer on the forum stated that: Once you’ve embraced the truth, you should not be allowed to leave it" He definitely advocated the death penalty for apostasy.

Vickie
 
dolphinlove said:
you will be hard pressed getting a response to this one…
Or they will twist the meaning of it, one of the other. 😉
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yes my dear friend surely they either won’t respond or twist the meaning of those references:D.but my friend i am sure that i will give more references.quran is a large book.so i need some time but surely i will give more references though i think that this previous reference is enough;).
 
morning_star777 said:
inJESUS;3847104:
but dear brother i read bangla translation of quran now&its still in my hand.so did they mistranslate?:eek:?(who knows maybe they froged their own book,&its possible for muslims).or if not then what is the punishment pls explain me.
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the verse regarding non taking Jews and Christians as helpers and the one about kill them wherever you find them, their context is not about apostasy

these are the verses in question:

The punishment of those who fight against God and His Messenger, and hasten to do corruption, creating discord on earth: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off, or they shall be banished from the land. This is degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement, except for those who repent before you lay your hands on them. ( 5:33-34)

But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief – Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. (9:11,12)

Hadith

Bukhari, volume 9, #17

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah’s Messenger said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”

Bukhari, volume 9, #57

Narrated Ikrima, "Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s messenger forbade it, saying, “Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).” I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Messenger, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

these are samples. Maududi for example says that doubt the death penalty arose in the late 19th century. Otherwise, for the full twelve centuries prior to that time the total Muslim community remained unanimous about it.
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morning_star777 said:
the punishment of apostasy is death in islam.sura4:88,89.it ordered that who leaved islam,catch them and kill them where ever they found and don’t make friends with them or even don’t take them as helper.now my muslim fellows have you any answer?it is the real peace and tolerance,correct?here christian fellows can read those verses.i think as an ex muslim mr.angelos knows about this verses.and i will be back soon with more references.
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From a commentary on Sura 4:90, explicating the previous two verses:
This verse explains the previous one, showing clearly that even waverers [those who renounced Islam] were
not to be killed or fought against if they refrained from fighting, though they may have gone over to disbelief after accepting Islåm. The commentators agree that the persons
referred to in this verse were disbelievers and not Muslims, and they are generally supposed to have been the Banß Mudlaj (Bd). Note also that we have here the clear injunction that if any people offered peace, they were not to be fought against.
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So it seems that these verses refer to those who were once Muslims, and now seek to attack the Muslim community; however, former Muslims who sought to live in peace, were not to be harmed.
 
  1. What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned ? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray ? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road.
  2. They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
i read that the context of these verses is about treaties with pagans, not about Muslims who left their deen…no whether it is used while discussing death penalty, then am not sure.
 
sorry Morning Star…seems i was wrong…4:88 is indeed mentioned among apostasy ayas:
It is also significant that the Qur`an refers to apostasy several times (2:217, 3:86-90, 4:137, 9:66, 9:74, 16:106-109, 4:88-91, 47:25-27)

taken from an Islamic link.
 
inJESUS said:
sorry Morning Star…seems i was wrong…4:88 is indeed mentioned among apostasy ayas:
It is also significant that the Qur`an refers to apostasy several times (2:217, 3:86-90, 4:137, 9:66, 9:74, 16:106-109, 4:88-91, 47:25-27)

taken from an Islamic link.
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its ok brother:).and thank you that you gave more references:thumbsup:.god bless you.:amen:
 
**
morning_star777 said:
its ok brother:).and thank you that you gave more references:thumbsup:.god bless you.:amen:
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Sorry, morning star, I have read your posts above. inJesus was right in the beginning. M_s, you will not find any verse in the Quran which may say to kill the apostates. Any one can become a Muslima nd if not satisfied, he may leave it by open announcement. There is no punishment. There is not a single verse in the Quran which may say that the apostate is to be killed. If there is any such then please produce it (post it).

Otherwise you are right. It is the general belief of most muslims that the apostate is to be killed. But that is not Islam because it is not supported by anything. Perhaps the muslims will find some support int he Hadith to kill the apostate. But that will be invalid assumption.

Killing is a Capital punishment. It has to be mentioned in the Quran and not in the Hadith. How the muslims have come to believe that the apostate is to be killed is not known to me. I see many faults in the beliefs of the present day Muslims. This apostacy is not the only one. There are many other grave mistakes about who is a Kaafir and who is not, about killing the non-believers, About fighting the non-believers until they believe (Jihad) etc, all these are the major misunderstandings of the majority muslims.

So we do not know what to do about it. At least we can deny their bad beliefs. I believe that an apostate can be killed when in a state of war. Otherwise, in peacetime, there is no verse of the Quran which states thatthe apostate should be killed.

If there was any such thing (verse) then there would be no preaching. Then all the christians who convert to Islam should also be killed because that is also apostacy.**
 
well planten,then after death of muhammed when arabs became pagan again then why abu bakr declare war against them(riddha)?did he violate the quranic law?hope you read this history of the war against apostate(riddha war).anyway later brother inJESUS gave some references about apostasy.
 
morning_star777 said:
well planten,then after death of muhammed when arabs became pagan again then why abu bakr declare war against them(riddha)?did he violate the quranic law?hope you read this history of the war against apostate(riddha war).anyway later brother inJESUS gave some references about apostasy.
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That was an act of war. Some tribes recanted due to some reason. The others tried to claim prophethood. Some of them did not recant but said that they will not pay Zakat. Some of them were ready to attack Madinah. Please be sure that Islam has conditions for war such as:
  1. When attacked it is allowed to fight.
  2. When parties break an important agreement, it allowed to go to war.
    There is another condition too That is when some one stops the peaceful preaching of any faith, it is allowed to fight those people.
The Muslim state was in danger at that time. Already, a part of the christian kingdom was getting ready to attack the Muslims. It ws necessary for the Muslims to beware of the friends and foes. The history tells us that those tribes were on war path. So they were attacked and eliminated.

I had already written that there is no punishment for apostacy unless there is war at hand. This was a case of apostacy in the time of impending war.
 
Interesting. This is a topic that comes up like clockwork almost.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo some of what has been said above is right, some is not. Most doesn’t matter anyway.

Read:

Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

A hypocrite is not the same thing as an apostate.

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them

Renegades? This means they are fighting the Muslims.

**Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), **or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: **Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). **

Now, you left this last verse out. It’s more important. If the person leaves the Muslim faith and isn’t fighting the Muslims–either flees towards those with whom Muslims have a peace treaty, or if he himself declares peace, then Muslims aren’t allowed to fight him.

So, morning star, you actually proved that Muslims aren’t allowed to kill you unless you start fighting them. Bravo! 👍
 
sister i didn’t prove anything what you claimed.i wanted to prove the different thing.maybe i couldn’t guess the verses(for the 1st time maybe).but i will try to prove that the punishment of apostasy is death in islam.anyway i am a human being so i can made mistake(if it was really mistake).but muslims did so(killing apostate).i hope you also know that.so we will learn what we will see in our days.but pls wait.let me study ur scripture again.
 
dear planten,what history you wrote i read this in past.i agree with you.but the war riddha was just against apostate.&if ppl don’t want to give zakat that mean they deny islam so abu bakr fought with them.so if they denied zakat then surely they are not muslims.even omar proposed abu bakr not to attack them soon.but abu bakr denied&attacke.&those verses 1st i then inJESUS gave,using this verses muslims kill apostates&i hope you agree with me
 
sister amy,u r really great in battle field(battle of speech).you can attack on weak point.if i couldn’t understand those verses(apostasy)then i will try to understand.but before it we gave many inhuman verses from quran,&we(including me)understand those very well.though its off topic.so don’t want to discuss further.but your logic was ruffled:)(actually totally crashed).when we gave those inhuman verses and error of quran.
 
finally i have found some hadith about the punishment of apostasy.bukhari,(according to my version it is book 6)hadith no.-6333,6334,6335,6336.here muhammed cut the hands&feet of apostate(though here apostates have killed those herdmen&stolen their camels,but i don’t think that the punishment of killing should be so horrible.so it is apostasy punishment)&pierce their eyes with iron stick.and even muhammed didn’t bandage their wound&then they died
 
now sister amy,when islam on attack then do you(muslims)cut ppls hand and feet?&then let them die?isn’t an inhuman work?but i think this punishment is for apostasy.so if u think that it was the punishment of killing herdmen&stole their camels then you proved that how inhuman ur laws are!hope you understand i didn’t prove that when kafir attacke islam just then muslims fight but i proved that muslims love killing because ur quran&hadith taught it
 
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