Punishment on future generations

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Saint2B

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In the Old Testament, at several points, God threatens men, say a ruler like David, or another king, with punishment for sin. the man repents. Then God relents, but says the promised evil will be sent to the next generation. In another part of the Old Testament, it says that God sends punishment for several generations, but blessings for a thousand generations.

Where is the justice in God not punishing the person who committed a sin but will punish his children or lineage? Why would God do that?

Is the punishment of this type real or just supposed to show that sinful habits are passed on until a future generation can stop them? If so, where does the Bible say that the punishment is not literal, not real?
 
I view it like the national debt. The U.S. has built up a huge national debt that our children and children’s children will have to pay for. They didn’t make the debt, but they will be stuck with it. Or like the pollution that caused global warning, the last few generations caused it, but our descendents will have to live with it. Sin has natural consequences, consider Jacob’s theft of the birthright from his brother Esau which the Jews and Palestinians are still suffering from today.

I would call the effects of those natural consequences a form of punishment.
 
the sins of an abusive dad, or prostitute mom, will have lasting effects on their children, and most likely on their children’s children. sin is carried through generations, not because God has caused it, but because of the effects WE have on others around us. hence Jesus’ command to LOVE one another.

from what i have been told, the Old Testament people believed any bad thing in their life was a punishment from God for their own individual sins. a leper was viewed as being somehow deserving of the leprosy (either personally, or through family). this may explain why the OT describes punishment in different terms than the NT.
 
“Is the punishment of this type real or just supposed to show that sinful habits are passed on until a future generation can stop them?”

I favor this interpretation. It’s yet another comment on Man’s fallen nature. He repeats the same mistakes over. He’s trapped, from one age to the next, by the consequences of his fallen nature. Without God, he can’t overcome himself. Try as he might, he’s nothing but a creature among many others on Planet Earth, without God.

“If so, where does the Bible say that the punishment is not literal, not real?”

I’ve never come across any passage in the Bible that says, ‘don’t interpret this literally’. The ancient scribes and authors followed literary and spiritual traditions that probably didn’t perceive literal interpretation as a problem. The entire Bible series was produced by pre-Scientific Man, e.g., people who accepted and expected others to accept, myths, legends and great exaggerations of historical events.
 
Where is the justice in God not punishing the person who committed a sin but will punish his children or lineage? Why would God do that?
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For the same reason we all incur Original Sin. I didn’t eat that apple, but I’m sure as heck suffering the consequences.
 
Then God relents, but says the promised evil will be sent to the next generation.
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Since God is omniscient, He would also know that the next generation would equally deserve the same punishment for their sins which He foresaw, so it’s unlikely they were unjustly punished.
 
Every person, community, generation faces the same choice and challenge: to follow God’s rule, or rebel against it. The latter brings death, destruction and damnation. God foresees no one’s suffering; He does, however, know that many will disobey Him, and pay the price for it. Many refuse to learn, and persist in the mad notion that Evil will serve them better than a clean conscience.😦
 
Saint2B said:
In the Old Testament, at several points, God threatens men, say a ruler like David, or another king, with punishment for sin. the man repents. Then God relents, but says the promised evil will be sent to the next generation. In another part of the Old Testament, it says that God sends punishment for several generations, but blessings for a thousand generations.

Where is the justice in God not punishing the person who committed a sin but will punish his children or lineage? Why would God do that?

Is the punishment of this type real or just supposed to show that sinful habits are passed on until a future generation can stop them? If so, where does the Bible say that the punishment is not literal, not real?
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It is not only sin that impacts future generations, but every decision we make impacts the future. Let’s say someone is deciding where to go to college. That decision leads to a place where a spouse is met, which leads to children with that person rather than someone else. It also may lead to the location where the person and the person’s children will live and what they will become. The political policies or ideologies of a government impacts the future for all time. Taxes go into research to cure a disease and the impact of that might be on thousands of people who will live and have children and all their gerneations that will follow. Or the decision is made to fight a war that will impact the future forever. WWII was fought and millions died. The world was changed forever, but after it is over and things settle down we can not see what would have been if Naziism did not rise to power. There are millions missing who will not have lived out their lives and had children and grandchildren who might have cured cancer or wrote a symphony or been a great saint. Everything we do creates what the future will be in a sense, for good or for bad, and we are blind to how our actions will impact it.

Why would the impact of the decision to sin be different?
 
Saint2B said:
In the Old Testament, at several points, God threatens men, say a ruler like David, or another king, with punishment for sin. the man repents. Then God relents, but says the promised evil will be sent to the next generation. In another part of the Old Testament, it says that God sends punishment for several generations, but blessings for a thousand generations.

Where is the justice in God not punishing the person who committed a sin but will punish his children or lineage? Why would God do that?

Is the punishment of this type real or just supposed to show that sinful habits are passed on until a future generation can stop them? If so, where does the Bible say that the punishment is not literal, not real?
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Hi, Saint2B!

There are several factors involved:
  • Yahweh God’s Plan is always in place and He will bring it to fulfillment regardless of man’s rebelious acts.
  • The parents are indeed punished as they are removed from Grace, political or religious offices or debased by their enemies or even their own offsprings–Yahweh refuses to listen even to the most heartfelt repentence (as with the death of David’s son when he committed adultery with the wife of one of his generals, conspired against him, and finally sent him and many others to be killed–all in an effort to hide his sin; further, one of his own sons removed him, by force, from his thrown and attempted to kill him…)
  • The parents are punished through their offsprings–in the Old Testament Israel it was seen as a disgrace to have a child turn against the parents or be placed in slavery or even die before the parents.
  • Finally, the Old Testament was of a different economy than the New Testament: “…an eye for an eye…” Much as today’s society (at least in the USA) Israel was accostomed to instant gratifications–conversely, the opposite would necessarily take place as temporal consequence to Israel’s rebellion against Yahweh God.
Maran atha!

Angel
 
Saint2B said:
Where is the justice in God not punishing the person who committed a sin but will punish his children or lineage? Why would God do that?
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if the person truly repented then God will be forgiving. he is merciful.
if you are truly sorry for all of your sins at the end of your life, you would hope that God has mercy on you so that you get to heaven. if God were to truly give us all the punishment that we all deserve, there would be very few souls, if any, in heaven. think of the prodigal son.
thank the Lord for his mercy.
 
Saint2B said:
In the Old Testament, at several points, God threatens men, say a ruler like David, or another king, with punishment for sin. the man repents. Then God relents, but says the promised evil will be sent to the next generation. In another part of the Old Testament, it says that God sends punishment for several generations, but blessings for a thousand generations.

Where is the justice in God not punishing the person who committed a sin but will punish his children or lineage? Why would God do that?

Is the punishment of this type real or just supposed to show that sinful habits are passed on until a future generation can stop them? If so, where does the Bible say that the punishment is not literal, not real?
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**I have my own take on this. Scripture also says that the sins of the father will be passed down even to the fourth generation.

Sin is a choice of behavior and, as such, as a moral element to it. Some families are so dysfunctional that these behaviors, started by the 4X grandfather’s family, can and often do continue for several generations until it eventually comes to a stop in some way.

As far as punishment goes, that depends on what is meant by that term. For one thing, there is the genetic factor with certain illnesses and physical handicaps/challenges that come down one’s lineage. These can either be looked upon as punishments by God (a ‘cursed’ family line, for example), or they can also be looked upon the way Christ saw the blind man - when asked who sinned, this man or his parents that he was born blind, Christ replied neither, that the works of God may be manifest through him.

Also, please remember that we are not under the Old Law but the new: God’s mercy and love and His compassion. It’s a totally different way of looking at human relationships and our relationship with God. **
 
some times when the children , grand children , parents or relatives are suffering from some misfortune , there is a tendency to think that its because of the some ones sin.
father’s sin when the children are suffering , member of the family has sinned , when some one in the family has fall in misfortune.
I think that this tendency is not right one.
The people are suffering because we live in the world of sin.
In the world of pain , misfortunes and suffering.
Some suffer more some less.
Only in eternity will will know the answers for some unanswered questions.
The painful questions which force us to think some times about
unjust , unfair and painful fortune which falls on some of the Christians.
But in my opinion , the tendency to think that the suffering of the children occurs because of the parents sins - is not good tendency.
Also its not good tendency of the Christians to blame or to gossip about the neighbors suffering thinking or even telling that its because of their personal sins they are suffering.
God is able to abolish any inherited curses or the curses which are the results of the sins , and may be in my opinion , it would be wiser not to give direct definitions that the some ones sufferings are the results of the parents curses and inherited sins.
 
Athanasiy said:
some times when the children , grand children , parents or relatives are suffering from some misfortune , there is a tendency to think that its because of the some ones sin.
father’s sin when the children are suffering , member of the family has sinned , when some one in the family has fall in misfortune.
I think that this tendency is not right one.
The people are suffering because we live in the world of sin.
In the world of pain , misfortunes and suffering.
Some suffer more some less.
Only in eternity will will know the answers for some unanswered questions.
The painful questions which force us to think some times about
unjust , unfair and painful fortune which falls on some of the Christians.
But in my opinion , the tendency to think that the suffering of the children occurs because of the parents sins - is not good tendency.
Also its not good tendency of the Christians to blame or to gossip about the neighbors suffering thinking or even telling that its because of their personal sins they are suffering.
God is able to abolish any inherited curses or the curses which are the results of the sins , and may be in my opinion , it would be wiser not to give direct definitions that the some ones sufferings are the results of the parents curses and inherited sins.
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Hi, Athanasiy!

…this tendency come from the Old Testament’s economy (…“an eye for an eye…”), it is also part of the “old wives tales” and the “better than” culture that has infiltrated some Christians (including Catholics)… holding on to the old economy denies the new economy which Christ Jesus brought to the world: the Just taking onto Himself the infirmities of others… and suggesting that any suffering, illness or poverty is a sign of sin or lack of Faith or desbelief denies Jesus’ Teachings for He Taught about God’s Mercy and Love and Commanded that His disciples should humble themselves and not be glad of their spiritual achievements but rather that their names be found in the Book of Life (of the Lamb).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I’m not at home right now, so no access to my notes. Late in pre-Christian history of Israel, as part of the preparations for the coming of Messiah in the “fullness of time,” one of the prophets declared a word of the Lord - that everyone would be responsible for only their own sin. It broke the multigenerational inheritance, at least from God’s side. Ezekiel IIRC. Or was it Jeremiah? I think there’s pieces in both that fit together to describe how this will be.

Of course some humans cling to certain sins in their family history for generations but that is not a curse of God, that is the cumulative impact of a lot of persons making free choices.
 
Jeremiah 31:

29In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.

30But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
 
kentuckyliz said:
I’m not at home right now, so no access to my notes. Late in pre-Christian history of Israel, as part of the preparations for the coming of Messiah in the “fullness of time,” one of the prophets declared a word of the Lord - that everyone would be responsible for only their own sin. It broke the multigenerational inheritance, at least from God’s side. Ezekiel IIRC. Or was it Jeremiah? I think there’s pieces in both that fit together to describe how this will be.

Of course some humans cling to certain sins in their family history for generations but that is not a curse of God, that is the cumulative impact of a lot of persons making free choices.
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…in Ezekiel 18 Yahweh God tells Israel that the ancient sayings will cease, that the person that sins against Him is the one that will die due the sinful life; I often quote the end of this chapter since there’s a belief that some are destined to die… Yahweh tells us, explicitly, that He does not desire that anyone should die but rather that we repent from our sin and seek Him!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I think our business is to heal the broken hearted , to give the hope for the hopeless , and to strengthen the faith of the weak by proclaiming God’s love , mercy and hope.
We have a Christian God.
We have the Christ who revealed God in human body.
Revealed His attributes , His measureless grace and agape.
  • Not authoritarian , vindictive , capricious or spiteful god , who revenges and smashes most of the time , not the god who is absent most of the time , but a Christian God , the one who has that God must have the hope , joy , and faith even in the most strange and unusual life circumstances.
    Our suffering is the result of the sin which is in the world.
    Some times we are witnessing the reality which seems unjust and unfair to us.
    The righteous suffers more than the wicked.
    The luck and fortune belongs to the crafty and godless.
    Unfair and undeserved suffering , life’s calamities and pains which we know we do not deserve.
    And misfortunes which falling upon the children or grand children.
    Let God decide the reasons of the sufferings and misfortunes.
    He is righteous and Just !
    Our duty is to rise the hope of our neighbor , to strengthen his faith and the trust in God.
    I think that there are some souls , and bodies sufferings , which if we would start to blame the person for his possible sins , or the sin of his parents or family , it will not bring any spiritual cure to the person.
    Unfortunately in this life , you can see some times the righteous who can be hungry and treated unjustly by the life , you can see the saint who suffers unendurable pains of sufferings , and you can see the wicked who lives easy , healthy-wealthy and careless life .
    I believe in Heavenly Justice , Mercy and Righteousness , therefore lets leave to God the answers for the troubled questions ;… ‘ who has sinned he , or his parents ?….’
 
Athanasiy said:
I think our business is to heal the broken hearted , to give the hope for the hopeless , and to strengthen the faith of the weak by proclaiming God’s love , mercy and hope.
We have a Christian God.
We have the Christ who revealed God in human body.
Revealed His attributes , His measureless grace and agape.
  • Not authoritarian , vindictive , capricious or spiteful god , who revenges and smashes most of the time , not the god who is absent most of the time , but a Christian God , the one who has that God must have the hope , joy , and faith even in the most strange and unusual life circumstances.
    Our suffering is the result of the sin which is in the world.
    Some times we are witnessing the reality which seems unjust and unfair to us.
    The righteous suffers more than the wicked.
    The luck and fortune belongs to the crafty and godless.
    Unfair and undeserved suffering , life’s calamities and pains which we know we do not deserve.
    And misfortunes which falling upon the children or grand children.
    Let God decide the reasons of the sufferings and misfortunes.
    He is righteous and Just !
    Our duty is to rise the hope of our neighbor , to strengthen his faith and the trust in God.
    I think that there are some souls , and bodies sufferings , which if we would start to blame the person for his possible sins , or the sin of his parents or family , it will not bring any spiritual cure to the person.
    Unfortunately in this life , you can see some times the righteous who can be hungry and treated unjustly by the life , you can see the saint who suffers unendurable pains of sufferings , and you can see the wicked who lives easy , healthy-wealthy and careless life .
    I believe in Heavenly Justice , Mercy and Righteousness , therefore lets leave to God the answers for the troubled questions ;… ‘ who has sinned he , or his parents ?….’
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I think that perception has more to do with it than anything else…

Yahweh God dealt with Israel and the ancient world in a different economy prior to Jesus’ Incarnation… what seems to us as harsh demands (eye for an eye; up to the forth generation held responsible for the sins of the father; instant repercussions for direct rebelion against God’s Will…) were always tempered with humongous Mercy and the hidden Salvation in Christ; further, Yahweh God always made it easy to acquire His Grace (“I place Heaven and earth as witnesses… chose Life in order that you shall live…” “…why are you so anxious to die, House of Israel? I take no pleasure in the death of anyone–it is the Lord Yahweh who speaks. Repent and live!”)

And the prophet Isaiah has the most loving invitation that anyone has ever given: “Come now, let us talk this over, says Yahweh. Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.”

…the problem then as now is that we (man) are bent on exercising our will even against God’s and we feel that He should acquiesce to our demands: salvation regardless of our willful rebelious and sinfull life.

…hollowood’s indoctrination has perverted man’s understanding of Faith and Spirituality (it takes evil to do good; love is anything involving anybody or bodies; a god of love would not object to “x;” a god of love understands human weakness; a god of love would not condem anyone for anything…); it preaches that we are all children of God and Salvation is granted to everyone regardless of their standing.

…sadly, those seeking the truth can fall into another of Satan’s pitfalls: pride; pride can blind us to the Truth of Sacred Scriptures as we seek to bring God to account for what we deem as unfair or unjust.

…if we humble ourselves to accept God’s Will, His Way would be revealed to us; we will find that His Way involves the highest form of fairness and justice (Romans 9 through 11).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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