Purgatorial flames... Is this good news?

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FiberZilla said:
Where is any of this in scripture? Nowhere! Where is the cross of Christ? Nowhere! God does not torture his children with fire to show his love. God sent his son Jesus to die in our place.

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)

Now that is love.
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God
  • is described as a “consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29),
  • is served by the seraphim – “burning ones” who cleansed Isaiah’s lips with burning coal (Isaiah 6:6)
  • sent the Holy Spirit down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).
Fire is presented as an icon of God, who is love. The pain of the encounter with the fire that God is is therefore the pain of love. Describing the fire of Purgatory as “torture” is a superficial way of looking at it.
 
Smber2c said:
The pain of purgatory is transformative. It is the pain of knowing evil in us, battling it, and removing it.
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OK…let me just address a couple things about this statement. You mention that pain can be transformitive, so why can’t people in hell transform so they can go to heaven?

On a side note, why do you need pain to know that we were evil? Don’t you think God could do it in a better way? Do I have to hit my child if he does something wrong?
 
LilyM said:
Let me draw an analogy - I am a child with very little money. I break my mother’s priceless vase. Destroy it beyond repair. Can I pay her back its full value? Of course not. Am I for that reason let off scot free and owing her nothing at all? Equally, of course not.

So what is the result? As far as I, with my limited resources, am able, I am obliged to make restitution, even if it is only partial restitution. That’s the only just course of action. So I will give her what money I can, or do chores to work off whatever I can of the value, or make my restitution in some other way.

It may be that a generous friend of mine, who feels sorry for me, agrees to make up the balance of what I owe so that I actually can replace her vase with another equally valuable. Again, that doesn’t let me off scot free and with nothing required of me either.

So it is with sin. No, we can’t completely pay back God for our sins. And it IS only Christ’s redeeming passion that bridges that gap between what we owe God and what we can pay Him. But justice nonetheless requires that we make what restitution we can - hence His parable of the servant where He makes clear that we will not be let out of jail until WE pay the last penny - not the last penny of what God is owed, but the last penny of the amount that we are able, and thus required, to repay.
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Your analogy would only be accurate if your mom beat you badly for breaking your vase, and then forgave you.
 
FiberZilla said:
Catholic writers have said that the suffering fires in purgatory burn hotter than the flames of hell. With no way to know how long one has to spend in purgatory (centuries perhaps?) where is the good news? Is anyone here looking forward to that kind of brutal suffering? Is this how God shows his love for us by throwing us into fire?
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It is precisely God’s mercy and divine justice that allows for a place like Purgatory to exist. Otherwise, no one would enter heaven.

The souls in Purgatory (church suffering) are the true [predestined] for their’s is the hope of enjoying the Beatific Vision after their time in purgatory has atoned for all their forgiven sins. We the Church militant pray for the poor souls in Purgatory to shorten their stay and speed their entry into heaven where they will join the Church Triumphant. There they will be able to intercede for us, the Church militant.

So the question remains, “what are we doing to help the souls in purgatory?”

Are we quizzing God as to His divine justice and mercy or are we praying (as we should) for the poor souls in purgatory?

Their suffering is horrible but they have the assurance of hope.

Domine Iesu dimite nobis debita nostra,
Salva nos ab igni inferiori,
Perduc in caelum omnes animas
praesertim eias quae misericordia tua
maxime indigent, Amen
 
mangy_dog said:
It is precisely God’s mercy and divine justice that allows for a place like Purgatory to exist. Otherwise, no one would enter heaven.

The souls in Purgatory (church suffering) are the true [predestined] for their’s is the hope of enjoying the Beatific Vision after their time in purgatory has atoned for all their forgiven sins. We the Church militant pray for the poor souls in Purgatory to shorten their stay and speed their entry into heaven where they will join the Church Triumphant. There they will be able to intercede for us, the Church militant.

So the question remains, “what are we doing to help the souls in purgatory?”

Are we quizzing God as to His divine justice and mercy or are we praying (as we should) for the poor souls in purgatory?

Their suffering is horrible but they have the assurance of hope.

Domine Iesu dimite nobis debita nostra,
Salva nos ab igni inferiori,
Perduc in caelum omnes animas
praesertim eias quae misericordia tua
maxime indigent, Amen
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well said. 👍
 
Vile_Servant said:
If you kill and commit adultery thousands of times each day, are you still going to heaven?

🤷
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Absolutely not! Those who are justified are also sanctified and empowered to holy living. One who continues to embrace a life of sin is obviously not a child of God. Salvation will always be evidenced by a transformed life and good works. 1st John and the Book of James are particularly good for clearing up this terrible “do whatever you want Jesus paid for it” notion.
 
hellopeople said:
This view rests on the Bible being inspired by God. Also, if God purifies us by burning us, why even have confession? If I commit sins from now on I will just heat up a wire hanger and burn myself…I mean its what God would do, right?
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Your response here shows that you are not understanding Purgatory in a spiritual way. In fact it comes across as a caricature from what you have said above.

Incidentally, not everyone needs purification…there are those, who like St. Paul can say “It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.”

I am still in a process of growing in my love for the Lord and my neighbor. There are still many areas where I need improvement in loving God and my neighbor as He would have me to.

If I were to die soon and find myself before our All-loving and beautiful Lord it would cause me tremendous pain to see how I have truly hurt him by sin. He would have done nothing at all - not putting me anywhere – it would be my realization of His Infinite Love that would cause my pain.
 
Dorothy said:
If I were to die soon and find myself before our All-loving and beautiful Lord it would cause me tremendous pain to see how I have truly hurt him by sin. He would have done nothing at all - not putting me anywhere – it would be my realization of His Infinite Love that would cause my pain.
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Wow, that is actually a great way of putting it. This actually makes total sense.
 
Vile_Servant said:
If you kill and commit adultery thousands of times each day, are you still going to heaven?

🤷
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The “sinner’s prayer” so popular in evangelical circles today has given more people a false assurance of salvation and leading more people into hell than any other damnable heresy in professing christendom.

Anyone who willingly continues in a life of sin is not a child of God.
With the new birth comes a new heart, with new desires.
A true child of God hates sin.

People had better wake up, repent and believe the gospel… (the one in the bible)
:cool:
 
FiberZilla said:
The “sinner’s prayer” so popular in evangelical circles today has given more people a false assurance of salvation and leading more people into hell than any other damnable heresy in professing christendom.

Anyone who willingly continues in a life of sin is not a child of God.
With the new birth comes a new heart, with new desires.
A true child of God hates sin.

People had better wake up, repent and believe the gospel… (the one in the bible)
:cool:
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You are spreading your heresy by telling us that our prayers dont mean anything to the dead. You can see with the letters in the bible that they tell us to pray for are departed brothers and sisters. We do not help them by our own power but by the sacrafice of Jesus Christ when he died on the cross. Do you believe that you are clean enough to enter Heaven? Nothing unclean will enter Heaven as seen on Revelations.
 
CatholicGuy22 said:
You are spreading your heresy by telling us that our prayers dont mean anything to the dead. You can see with the letters in the bible that they tell us to pray for are departed brothers and sisters. We do not help them by our own power but by the sacrafice of Jesus Christ when he died on the cross. Do you believe that you are clean enough to enter Heaven? Nothing unclean will enter Heaven as seen on Revelations.
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"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Christ became “sin” for us. What does that mean? Christ suffered for the sins of the entire world although he committed NONE of them. Hanging there on the cross, he was holy, blameless and undefiled. God poured his wrath upon Jesus for over three hours. In other words, God treated Jesus as if he lived my life. Then he turns right around and gives us Jesus righteousness.

It is only with the righteousness of Jesus Christ that I can stand before God. Can you say that? Have you accepted Christ’s sacrifice as payment for your sins? Do you want Christ’s righteousness 2 seconds after you draw your last breath? … or do want your own?
 
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