Purgatory: a clear explanation?

[guanophore]

ok.So that means, all the teaching Catholics do out of the bible appeared after 382 AD. So then why there is no other book (from Rome) is not published with their new teachings.

Don’t be silly Truth4! The Scriptures were the inspired and inerrant Word of God the moment they were penned. The New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics. The contents of the One Faith was whole and entire before a word was ever written. The Teachings of the Church were given to her by Christ, through the Apostles. We cannot invent new doctrines, only better understand and apply what was once for all delivered to the Church. These applications are found in the Catechism, which references the Scriptures and the Early Fathers, Councils, from whence the Sacred Traditions are preserved.

 

[Gorgias]

So that means, all the teaching Catholics do out of the bible appeared after 382 AD.

Umm… pardon? Are you really suggesting that the Catholic Church didn’t teach anything prior to the establishment of the canon of Scripture?

No… that just doesn’t hold up! Heck – we see that Peter was teaching on Pentecost Sunday!

So then why there is no other book (from Rome) is not published with their new teachings.

Erm… again, pardon me? The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents all the teachings of the Church.

 

[guanophore]

2 Corinthians, 5-8 Paul proclaimed to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

No, it’s not, and he didn’t.

We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 2 Cor. 5:8

One could see how it might be understood in this way.

 

[neophyte]

We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 2 Cor. 5:8

One could see how it might be understood in this way.

One could, if one ignored what it actually says.

I would rather be away from work and at home with my wife. But that doesn’t mean that work and home are the only places I can be.

 

[guanophore]

You people

Do I understand you correctly to be referring to Catholics?

You can persist in your erroneous beliefs

You keep saying you have “legitimate questions”, but then you make assertions such as this which make it clear that you have already come to your conclusions.

You people spend hours upon hours building upon your false beliefs, your misinterpretation of scripture,

Your tone sounds rather accusatory.

Why am I in this forum? I was accused of being among “schismatics” by some other poster and that’s absurd. I joined a FB CATHOLIC GROUP because it was supposedly examining the “paranormal”. I thought I would find educated and aware adults but instead I found a plethora of spiritual adolescents who feed themselves, over and over again, the same false doctrine they espouse and then insult, demean, and damn those who don’t agree with them.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience. No doubt they thought you were a Protestant in disguise!

If you feel insulted and demeaned for espousing anti-Catholic ideas, why do you do it?

But, if you MUST espouse a position hostile to the Catholic Church, why continue to seek out Catholics?

 

[guanophore]

I would rather be away from work and at home with my wife. But that doesn’t mean that work and home are the only places I can be.

Indeed. But Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory are not “places” so much as they are states of being. Those who are destined for heaven are with the Lord to be purified toward that end.

 

[neophyte]

Indeed. But Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory are not “places” so much as they are states of being.

Whether you call it a place or a state of being, my point still holds: just because the Apostle said he’d rather be away from one and in another, doesn’t mean that those are the only two. He absolutely did NOT say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Those who are destined for heaven are with the Lord to be purified toward that end.

Those who have not yet been purified still have some impurity.
But nothing that is impure can be in Heaven.
And those who are destined for Heaven do not go to Hell.
Therefore, there must be a third place (or state of being, if you prefer) in which those who are destined for Heaven undergo a purification. This third place is Purgatory,

 

[guanophore]

Therefore, there must be a third place (or state of being, if you prefer) in which those who are destined for Heaven undergo a purification. This third place is Purgatory,

I think you have a misunderstanding that I am not in agreement with you.

 

[Truth4]

In a school there is a curriculum and on that structure, children are educated. If something not in the curriculum is not taught. We call it out of the syllabus. You are saying again and again that Catholic bible was closed earlier and so updation is not possible. My brother even you dont have a clear picture. Apostle all have a clear understanding about mother of God and purgatory but they refrain from disclosing it bcz they are well aware of what is going to happen in future. Though they didn’t mentioned people are behind saints. They almost forget and less intercede to holyspirit.
In a Catholic church almost forget to start the prayer The Father, the Son and Holyspirit or the prayer Jesus taught us instead they start with other modern prayers that is out of Gospel teachings. They run behind miracles. They dont realise its all the manifestation of evil to move people from Jesus.
One of my Catholic friend said. Its mother who helps me not Jesus. What a pity.
Jesus is God that is why HIS WORLDLY MOTHER IS NOT ORDERING OR CAMMANDING instead intercede

 

[ajfrab]

He doesn’t mention the word “Purgatory”, but in Matthew 5:26 and Luke 12:59, Jesus speaks of being let out of the “Prison” after having paid the last penny. Read those (and the preceding) verses with the idea of purgatory in mind and see if you get any meaning from it.

 

[whyeyeman]

Some references to purgatory:

“Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.” - Matthew 5:26

“According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” - 1 Corinthians 3:10‭-‬15

 

[Truth4]

1)The New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics.
No. For all who believe in christ.
2)The Scriptures were the inspired and inerrant Word of God the moment they were penned.
Dear you r not answering to my point. I know the writings of apostles are intact & inerrant.
I am talking about what that is not their teaching and not in their books.
As pop represents and come in the order of Apostle Peter(if he is) he can add say, pop John Paul to Argentinians or for all Catholic Christians that eg. Mother Mary-Jesus-Father is the order of prayer and not Holyspirit-Jesus-Father.

 

[Truth4]

If after death if one can pay a last penny and be able to go to Heaven. Then why should one worry about last judgement day or repent.
As per new testament and old Testament the death ones are in rest to hear the voice of their saviour for resurection

 

[Truth4]

Its all happen at the time of judgement. The death ones and those who are alive together hear the judgment according to their works. On that day may some are thrown to hell and some to purgatory(as u say) for further purification. To that day all are in rest to hear the voice of their saviour for resurection

 

[tonyh12]

Hmmm jesus said today you will be in paradise to the good thief, we know a day can mean anything god created the universe in a week. In any case jesus is all powerful he can make any one a saint in heaven, the church has the keys handed to pope of Christ’s power to bind and loose but Christ is still in control ultimately. There is scriptural reasoning for purgatory look up ‘purgatory’ in the catechism available free from the Vatican, or all good Christian bookshops.

Also worth noting perhaps Judaism teaches purgatory and prayers for the dead, need I say more (ok jesus was a Jew who followed Jewish observances etc).

God bless

 

[Truth4]

PAUL assented to heaven, its mentioned in his books.He cant go with his body bcz its possible only after resurrection.
2 Corinthians, 5-8 Paul proclaimed to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Its the true interpretation.

 

[ajfrab]

Purgatory is not for those who destined for hell, but for those who are not damned but, as others have mentioned, for those not yet in the perfect state required for heaven.
You should worry about the state of your soul, first because you certainly want to avoid hell, but also because the more purgation required, the longer you will have to undergo purification (and not be in heaven).
And, as per the Old Testament, atonement can be offered for the dead so they can be delivered from their sin (2nd Maccabees 12 39-45). Obviously atonement cannot be offered for those in hell, and those in heaven have no need of it. So there must be a state between those.

 

[guanophore]

. You are saying again and again that Catholic bible was closed earlier and so updation is not possible.

No, I did not say that. I said that, because the canon of Scripture is closed, we do not add or subtract from it’s contents. That does not mean that the Teaching of the Church is not updated. It is the duty of the Magesterium to apply the Scripture to the current day and age. Jesus gave the authority to preach and teach to His Apostles, commanding them to go into all the world and make disciples. They passed this responsibility to their successors, the Bishops, who today teach the faithful how to apply the Scriptures.

My brother even you dont have a clear picture.

Do you think I need an “updation”?

Apostle all have a clear understanding about mother of God and purgatory

They had clarity about the things that God wanted them to know at the time.

John 16:12
12 “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Jesus was clear that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church into “all Truth”. The Spirit could not come until He went to the Father.

There is no record of what Jesus taught His disciples during the 40 days after His resurrection and ascension.

Apostle …understanding about mother of God and purgatory but they refrain from disclosing it bcz they are well aware of what is going to happen in future.

The fact is, Truth4, we can only speculate why they did not write about certain topics. The Apostles were not omniscient, and could not know what would happen in the future. We trust that the Holy Spirit led the inspired authors of the NT to write what God wanted written, and that those Sacred Traditions they left with the Church have been preserved infallibly by the HOly Spirit.

Though they didn’t mentioned people are behind saints.

I am not sure what you mean by this, but I think it is the other way around. The Saints are behind those of us who are still on earth! This is why, in Heb. 11, they are described as a “great cloud of witnesses.”

They almost forget and less intercede to holyspirit.

You think the saints forget us? Or the Apostles forget us? Or perhaps you erroneously believe that asking someone for their prayers means we do not pray to the Holy Spirit?

 

[guanophore]

In a Catholic church almost forget to start the prayer The Father, the Son and Holyspirit or the prayer Jesus taught us instead they start with other modern prayers that is out of Gospel teachings.

One has to wonder how much time you have actually spent in the Catholic Church. Is there some rule that a prayer needs to be started “The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”?

Do you honestly believe that Catholics do not pray the Lord’s Prayer?

instead they start with other modern prayers that is out of Gospel teachings.

Like what?

They run behind miracles.

Not sure what this means. ARe there so many miracles happening that people have to run to catch up?

They dont realise its all the manifestation of evil to move people from Jesus.

Let me see if I understand this right…prayer and miracles are a manifestation of evil to move people away from Jesus"!!!

One of my Catholic friend said. Its mother who helps me not Jesus. What a pity.

I agree with you, that is a pity. It appears that your Catholic friend is either very poorly catechized, or confused. Or maybe both?

Jesus is God that is why HIS WORLDLY MOTHER IS NOT ORDERING OR CAMMANDING instead intercede

Mary is not 'worldly", but you are right, Mary can only do what Jesus allows her to do. She does intercede for us.

 

[Truth4]

One has to wonder how much time you have actually spent in the Catholic Church. Is there some rule that a prayer needs to be started “The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”?
Do you honestly believe that Catholics do not pray the Lord’s Prayer?
Yes. Sure. You are right. Catholics do in church that is 100% holy prayer giving full respect and glory to God.
I mean to say, when we conduct prayer meeting outside the church and lead by people (not priest ). Here is the problem. One guy remove the picture of Jesus and put Mary’s picture. It upset me a lot. The man said with out mother no Jesus. False. It’s just opposite, for Jesus to born, mary was created. " What Mary answered, “I am the Lord’s servant". This people are taking a wrong way.Lord is Jesus itself.
I appreciate I would like to chat more with u in a friendly manner bcz. We both want the God to be praised. Our God is a jealous God as per Scriptures and God don’t like to share his Glory with anyone. If we Glorify others, that is wrong in the eyes of God