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Isaiah45_9
Guest
Which one of these four Gospels did Jesus write Himself?No sir. Far from it. I only quote what Jesus talked about. If it wasn’t talked about by Him in the 4 gospels , then how can one say He talked about it. These doctrines came from the “minds of man” after a period long after Jesus left the earth. I have been directed to many verses in the bible by many, but still not one of them talks about a purging of sins spoken by Jesus . Once again I have to refer to the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. I’m it there was a great chasm between 2 places. There’s no in between that was spoken of. Only the two places . I’m sure if Jesus was telling this then that is the truth. He never depicted an intermediary place and if it was important them He surely would have stated it in the parable. ,and He didnt So no I do not claim to know everything Jesud talked about, I merely point out that He did not talk about a purging of sin.
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MadeAFace
Guest
I know I’m responding very late on this topic but… When we die our soul leaves our body and either goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell. Our body and our soul together is what makes us human. We are not complete without our bodies and are therefore unable to properly worship God without them. Similarly, a soul cannot completely and entirely feel the torments of hell without their body. When judgement day comes, everyone will be resurrected (even the souls in heaven and hell), they will all undergo a final judgement and purgatory will cease to exist. The souls who get to go to heaven will be in perfectly glorified bodies and be able to worship God fully and completely and the souls who go to hell will suffer even greater.
We cannot simply just go to purgatory to pay for our sins. No one would be redeemed without Christ’s sacrifice and no one is forgiven without repentance. As far as the difference between redemption and purification I can easily use myself as an example. I’ve personally struggled with sexual sin, alcoholism, drug use and lying to name a few things. I’ve turned away from those sins and have done a lot of repenting but… when you live in constant sin like that it makes a mark on your soul. It changes you whether you realize it or not. Say you’re an alcoholic or have an addiction to pornography; you can be truly sorry and repent but let’s face it, even though you have been forgiven you are more prone to doing it again then someone who has never drank their whole life. That’s what makes us imperfect. It takes our souls a long time to recover from the stain of our sins. It’s taken me years of repentance to get to the point where I can’t stomach to do some of the things I used to do anymore. I know I still have a long way but I take comfort in knowing that God is mending my soul for heaven.
We cannot simply just go to purgatory to pay for our sins. No one would be redeemed without Christ’s sacrifice and no one is forgiven without repentance. As far as the difference between redemption and purification I can easily use myself as an example. I’ve personally struggled with sexual sin, alcoholism, drug use and lying to name a few things. I’ve turned away from those sins and have done a lot of repenting but… when you live in constant sin like that it makes a mark on your soul. It changes you whether you realize it or not. Say you’re an alcoholic or have an addiction to pornography; you can be truly sorry and repent but let’s face it, even though you have been forgiven you are more prone to doing it again then someone who has never drank their whole life. That’s what makes us imperfect. It takes our souls a long time to recover from the stain of our sins. It’s taken me years of repentance to get to the point where I can’t stomach to do some of the things I used to do anymore. I know I still have a long way but I take comfort in knowing that God is mending my soul for heaven.
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Porknpie
Guest
Yes, Jesus died for our sins. We have been forgiven but our sinful nature remains. That sinful nature makes us “unclean”. We still have an inclination to sin and the bible says that nothing unclean shall enter heaven.This is still an issue for me only because God could have just never let Jesus die for us then.
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Yes, very Catholic. We can not be saved without Christ’s resurrection.1 corin 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
You misunderstand Catholic teaching. Christ’s resurrection is necessary for our salvation. We agree on that completely. We are cleansed of our sins…he has wipes them away…but we still have a sinful nature. Christ’s death on the cross did not remove our sinful nature and we can not enter heaven with a sinful nature, We must be cleansed as through fire of this sinful nature. That is what scripture says. What do you call this cleansing process? Catholics call it purgatory.But according to Catholic’s, one can simply be placed in purgatory for his sins. So why did Christ need to die if one can simply go to purgatory for their sins?
Lots of scripture on purgatory…read here
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BarryI
Guest
I don’t get your question about Jesus writing gospels. And what’s your point?Which one of these four Gospels did Jesus write Himself?
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Arizona_Mike
Guest
Barryl, I presume you believe in the concept of the Trinity, as you identify yourself as a Christian (I know there are some groups such as the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as some Pentecostals, who describe themselves as Christians but are not Trinitarians). It is a fundamental concept in Christianity. Could you please point out to me the passage in scripture where Jesus talks about the Trinity, or uses the word, “Trinity?”
Now obviously, Jesus spoke of the three persons of the Trinity, and commanded that the people of the world be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We certainly can deduce the concept of the Trinity from examining the Bible as a whole. Catholics, who rely on the doctrine of the Deposit of Faith, hold that all those things John talked about that were passed on to the apostles were not lost forever, but have been handed down, so we know about things like the Trinity and Purgatory. But why should you believe in the concept if Jesus didn’t name it and spell out the concept for you?
Now obviously, Jesus spoke of the three persons of the Trinity, and commanded that the people of the world be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We certainly can deduce the concept of the Trinity from examining the Bible as a whole. Catholics, who rely on the doctrine of the Deposit of Faith, hold that all those things John talked about that were passed on to the apostles were not lost forever, but have been handed down, so we know about things like the Trinity and Purgatory. But why should you believe in the concept if Jesus didn’t name it and spell out the concept for you?
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dominejesu
Guest
My father once told me it was when souls suffer because they can not be with God. But they
have hope and know that they will eventually be with God There are also different levels in
purgatory. Some of the purest souls suffer very little, it might just be a dark place and no pain.
have hope and know that they will eventually be with God There are also different levels in
purgatory. Some of the purest souls suffer very little, it might just be a dark place and no pain.
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pablope
Guest
Let me put it this way…since Jesus did not write any of the written gospels…and He did not command anyone to write…and if you rely on what was compiled in the Bible alone…then what you know about Jesus and what He taught the Apostles to hand down to us is deficient…and lacking…that is why you do not understand or have no idea of purgatory.No sir. Far from it. I only quote what Jesus talked about. If it wasn’t talked about by Him in the 4 gospels , then how can one say He talked about it.
The denial of purgatory started only with your protestant grandfathers…who broke from the Catholic Church sometime in the 1500 or so…and their successors and the generations that followed…have continously lost the catholic connection of what have been handed to you.
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Arizona_Mike
Guest
As others have mentioned, the concept of praying for the souls of the dead means that the prayers can be efficacious - those in Heaven don’t need them, and those in Hell are beyond the help of prayer. So, there must be souls in a state where prayer will help them. We call this “Purgatory” for the state where the soul is purified by God before the soul is fit to stand before Him. God seems to want us to pray for those in this State, based on the Bible. What you call that state is really just semantics. We can call it Purgatory, or καθαρτήριο, or očistec, or purgatorio, it doesn’t really make a difference. They all refer to temporary states of purification after death. Even if you believe in the concept of Soul Sleep, there will be a state before entry into Heaven where the soul must be purified. Luther’s concept that man’s sins are covered up by the Grace of Jesus (like a blanket of snow on a field of dung, to use Luther’s teaching) would mean that sin still can enter Heaven as long as it is concealed…which is pretty screwy. We know from Revelation 21:22-26 that sin cannot enter Heaven - whether it is concealed, or overlaid, or anything else. I trust John more than I trust Martin Luther.
So nothing unclean can enter Heaven, but those who are repentant can…what happens to their sins? What is the process where they are removed, and purified?
Paul described the process in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, but he was referring only to Christians. Some will enter Heaven in a state of Grace, others will be saved, but only as through a fire. Pretty clear.
I am aware that Martin Luther didn’t believe in Purgatory or praying for the dead. His beliefs, that were the basis of Protestantism, are simply the teachings of Man.
Does the Bible, and the Jewish tradition which Christ continued and fulfilled, say it is appropriate to pray for the dead? Clearly, yes. In 2 Maccabees 12:42-46,
**And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering.
In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.
**
Now, a man (Martin Luther) decided this did not fit with his personal interpretation of scripture, and he did not think his followers should believe it either, so he removed it from the Bible. Again, this is a teaching of Man, not God.
But why? We know that Augustine, who is respected by most Christians, explicitly stated, “These (1st and 2nd Maccabees) are held as canonical, not by the Jews, but by the Church, on account of the extreme and wonderful sufferings of certain martyrs, who, before Christ had come in the flesh, contended for the law of God even unto death, and endured most grievous and horrible evils." Origen, Jerome, and other fathers of the early Church wrote that it was canonical. Do you, Barryl, know something they do not?
Jesus accepted 1st and 2nd Maccabees as scripture, apparently, as he celebrated Hannukah (John 10:22), and 1st and 2nd Maccabees call for it to be celebrated. We don’t find that anywhere else in contemporary Jewish scripture - neither the Talmud nor the Mishnah had yet been written. You could argue, Barryl, that Jesus followed oral tradition, but why accept it there and not from the apostles? (Of course, as the Christ, He could do whatever he pleased. That He chose to act in accordance with 1st and 2nd Maccabees tells us that the works contain Truth.
I have never heard of Martin Luther or any other Christian claiming 1st and 2nd Maccabees are a forgery, even if they insist they were not divinely inspired. We know that some Jews in the period before the coming of Christ believed in praying for the dead, and this was a belief that Jesus did not rebuke. (And it is still performed among Orthodox Jews today, who say the Mourner’s Kaddish for the souls of the dead for 11 months after death for the - that word again - Purification of the soul of the dead.) Neither did the Apostles rebuke the idea, who would state that other aspects of Jewish practice, such as circumcision, were no longer required, nor did the fathers of the early Church (quite the opposite, in fact.). If the Jewish belief in a spiritual state where prayers for the dead were efficacious (i.e., Purgatory) was wrong, why did neither Jesus nor the apostles nor the early Church condemn it, Barryl?
So nothing unclean can enter Heaven, but those who are repentant can…what happens to their sins? What is the process where they are removed, and purified?
Paul described the process in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, but he was referring only to Christians. Some will enter Heaven in a state of Grace, others will be saved, but only as through a fire. Pretty clear.
I am aware that Martin Luther didn’t believe in Purgatory or praying for the dead. His beliefs, that were the basis of Protestantism, are simply the teachings of Man.
Does the Bible, and the Jewish tradition which Christ continued and fulfilled, say it is appropriate to pray for the dead? Clearly, yes. In 2 Maccabees 12:42-46,
**And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering.
In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.
**
Now, a man (Martin Luther) decided this did not fit with his personal interpretation of scripture, and he did not think his followers should believe it either, so he removed it from the Bible. Again, this is a teaching of Man, not God.
But why? We know that Augustine, who is respected by most Christians, explicitly stated, “These (1st and 2nd Maccabees) are held as canonical, not by the Jews, but by the Church, on account of the extreme and wonderful sufferings of certain martyrs, who, before Christ had come in the flesh, contended for the law of God even unto death, and endured most grievous and horrible evils." Origen, Jerome, and other fathers of the early Church wrote that it was canonical. Do you, Barryl, know something they do not?
Jesus accepted 1st and 2nd Maccabees as scripture, apparently, as he celebrated Hannukah (John 10:22), and 1st and 2nd Maccabees call for it to be celebrated. We don’t find that anywhere else in contemporary Jewish scripture - neither the Talmud nor the Mishnah had yet been written. You could argue, Barryl, that Jesus followed oral tradition, but why accept it there and not from the apostles? (Of course, as the Christ, He could do whatever he pleased. That He chose to act in accordance with 1st and 2nd Maccabees tells us that the works contain Truth.
I have never heard of Martin Luther or any other Christian claiming 1st and 2nd Maccabees are a forgery, even if they insist they were not divinely inspired. We know that some Jews in the period before the coming of Christ believed in praying for the dead, and this was a belief that Jesus did not rebuke. (And it is still performed among Orthodox Jews today, who say the Mourner’s Kaddish for the souls of the dead for 11 months after death for the - that word again - Purification of the soul of the dead.) Neither did the Apostles rebuke the idea, who would state that other aspects of Jewish practice, such as circumcision, were no longer required, nor did the fathers of the early Church (quite the opposite, in fact.). If the Jewish belief in a spiritual state where prayers for the dead were efficacious (i.e., Purgatory) was wrong, why did neither Jesus nor the apostles nor the early Church condemn it, Barryl?
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MadeAFace
Guest
Arizona Mike-
That is probably one of the best comments I have read about praying for the dead. You’ve touched on a couple things I had never even thought of. Well done.
I think another thing Protestants fail to realize is that without the deuterocanon, particularly Maccabees, there is no explaination about who the Pharisees and Sadducees were, no explaination about the wars with the Greeks and no explaination of Hannukah.
That is probably one of the best comments I have read about praying for the dead. You’ve touched on a couple things I had never even thought of. Well done.
I think another thing Protestants fail to realize is that without the deuterocanon, particularly Maccabees, there is no explaination about who the Pharisees and Sadducees were, no explaination about the wars with the Greeks and no explaination of Hannukah.
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steve_b
Guest
OT type & shadow of future purification fortold Malachias (Malachi) 3:1-3 the NT fulfillment 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 for only those who don’t die in mortal sin.I still don’t see an explanation as to why Christ even had to die if remission of sins is as simple as being placed in purgatory for a longer time. The article says Jesus had to die, and that’s good; I know Catholics believe this, as do we. But it doesn’t explain why Jesus could have just never come, rather, He could have stayed in Heaven and allowed us to go to purgatory for our sins.
Did Jesus die simply to lessen the amount of time we spend in purgatory? Did He die so that we are allowed into purgatory for a short while instead of Hell? It all just doesn’t make sense to me.
The only reason sins can be forgiven and this purification is possible, is because of the life death and resurrection of Jesus. Without it, we would not be able to pay the price owed for sins, we would not rise, we would be dead in our sins. That’s why Jesus needed to pay that price, resurrect from the dead, and ascend to heaven.
Romans 3:23-25, 1 Corinthians 15:30-32 ,
But Jesus never said He paid the price so we have no price to pay.
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BarryI
Guest
Because he did not speak of it or point in any way towards it. I’m sure he would have mentioned something as important as that.Barryl, I presume you believe in the concept of the Trinity, as you identify yourself as a Christian (I know there are some groups such as the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as some Pentecostals, who describe themselves as Christians but are not Trinitarians). It is a fundamental concept in Christianity. Could you please point out to me the passage in scripture where Jesus talks about the Trinity, or uses the word, “Trinity?”
Now obviously, Jesus spoke of the three persons of the Trinity, and commanded that the people of the world be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We certainly can deduce the concept of the Trinity from examining the Bible as a whole. Catholics, who rely on the doctrine of the Deposit of Faith, hold that all those things John talked about that were passed on to the apostles were not lost forever, but have been handed down, so we know about things like the Trinity and Purgatory. But why should you believe in the concept if Jesus didn’t name it and spell out the concept for you?
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Arizona_Mike
Guest
You were not there, right? The people who were there, and who did have direct personal contact with him, and were taught by him, and those who were taught by those people, did point towards it and spoke of it, as the posters above me have cited those passages in the NT and in the early Church. Paul certainly points towards it, and Chistians accept his teachings and writings as divinely inspired by Jesus. You have acknowledged that there was much that was taught by Jesus (as John says in the last words of his Gospel) that was not recorded in the Bible, but was passed down as part of Christian belief. As you know, not all your Christian beliefs are spelled out in the Bible. Why do you have such a problem with acknowledging this belief as part of Jesus’s teaching?Because he did not speak of it or point in any way towards it. I’m sure he would have mentioned something as important as that.
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human_genome
Guest
BarryL,Ok I will say this referencing John 16:8-11. And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to sin, ant to righteousness ,and to condemnation .also John 3:17 "for God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but that the world " MIGHT"be saved through Him "we condemn ourselves by denying His existence and living in the world controlled by Satan. Not everyone though. Notice God said “MIGHT” be saved, indicating He sent Jesus to save the world of believers. You can believe in Jesus and even attend Services, but never really know the truth and live according to His Words .As for the parable not saying the man was a simmer, it didnt have to, as it is understood we are all sinners because we live in the flesh in a world whose ruler is Satan
I am really curious about you statement,
“You can believe in Jesus and even attend Services, but never really know the truth and live according to His Words.”
How does that happen!!! Perhaps you would have to explain what “believe in Jesus” means…
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human_genome
Guest
I cannot remember how many times I have told my Catholic friends with bible references, that we do NOT enter Heaven through our own works!Barry,
We can agree that Christ has forgiven our sins …but only if we repent.
But forgiveness of sins is not the same as being made pure. Nothing impure shall enter heaven. When you die, you still have an inclination to sin. This is an impurity. The process of having that inclination to sin removed is through fire. What do you call this process? Catholics call it purgatory. There is no earthly time dimension to it…and there is not reason to believe that we would rather be on earth than go through that process…quite the opposite.
Firstly, if we were afforded the opportunity to claim a part in our own salvation from this existence of misery, Heaven would become an intolerable place, and I personally at least would have no desire to enter in. I would be among people filled with pride, boasting over how “good they were!” And the fact that they deserved(!) a place in Heaven based on their works. This would not only make Heaven a less than desirable place, but also an imperfect place. According to your philosophy, “the rest” of our sins are “burned off” in a place the Catholic church calls “purgatory”. However, the fact that you use the phrase “the rest” of our sins, tells me that either Jesus incredible painful sacrifice on the cross for those who would believe, was NOT GOOD ENOUGH, but only a “partial fix” so to speak. Also it brings to my mind the thought that I can/must work for my salvation, whichever way I would look at that, and actually participate in my own salvation. That means that I will obtain credit for this “work” that I do with respect to sins I commit in this life. I can quote you a “slew” of scriptures that should tell you that your reasoning is wrong, even if you had correctly understood the scripture references that you are referring to.
By creating “external” “man made” doctrines to “interpret” scripture, you firstly corrupt scripture. Secondly, you confuse people that are looking for a "way out of their misery through a relationship with Jesus (God) their Savior. And lastly, you are destroying hope, besides the confidence and joy that comes from an assurance of salvation, and the special intimacy with a loving God that always desires to be intimate with us as we live and grow through our walk with Jesus. It is by living through Him and Him living in us that we will “work out our salvation”, as the Apostle Paul phrases it. However, that is STILL not of ourselves, but by the power of the One who lives in us!
It is clearly indicated in the epistles that in God;s eyes, we are perfect for our spirit that we received when we were born again (Nicodemus) is perfect.
That is honoring Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross - no other contribution from us than accepting His sacrifice on the cross through the shed blood of God’s only, beloved and begotten Son. Before He took His last breath on the cross,
he called out, “It is finished.!”.
His GRACE is sufficient for us!
For goodness sake!!!
H
human_genome
Guest
OT type & shadow of future purification fortold Malachias (Malachi) 3:1-3 the NT fulfillment 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 for only those who don’t die in mortal sin.
The only reason sins can be forgiven and this purification is possible, is because of the life death and resurrection of Jesus. Without it, we would not be able to pay the price owed for sins, we would not rise, we would be dead in our sins. That’s why Jesus needed to pay that price, resurrect from the dead, and ascend to heaven.
Romans 3:23-25, 1 Corinthians 15:30-32 ,
But Jesus never said He paid the price so we have no price to pay./QUOT
Jesus also never said that we WERE to pay a price! Salvation is free!!! to us. To say anything else is to misquote the bible! Grace is unmerited favor - unmerited is used here to indicate it is FREE!!
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BarryI
Guest
I agree, John the Baptist came preparing the way of Jesus by telling those to be baptized and to “REPENT” . Jesus did the same thing except he showed the way by being baptized by John, which is why I do not agree with the Catholic Church’s view on baptism. How, can an infant, who has never been exposed to the world and all its corruptness,or the truth(word of God) be baptized? Baptism was for all who lived already in the world as an adult and who came to know God and the truth and accepted it and by being cleansed with the baptismal water made a personal vow and committment to follow the way of God and turn their backs on the pagan and false teachings of the world.And I still believe that wholeheartedly that that is how it should be today. Heck they do do it in RCIA, but they are truly doing it right. They have come to believe in the truth. Dont get me wrong, a child growing up that was baptized as an infant can be taught the truth, but , he still needs to experience life as an adult away from his parents to weigh out both sides of it. That is why God gave us free will. Once we come to know and fully understand the truth, we can either accept it , or , reject it. By being baptized as an adult is making a clear committment to Christ.I cannot remember how many times I have told my Catholic friends with bible references, that we do NOT enter Heaven through our own works!
Firstly, if we were afforded the opportunity to claim a part in our own salvation from this existence of misery, Heaven would become an intolerable place, and I personally at least would have no desire to enter in. I would be among people filled with pride, boasting over how “good they were!” And the fact that they deserved(!) a place in Heaven based on their works. This would not only make Heaven a less than desirable place, but also an imperfect place. According to your philosophy, “the rest” of our sins are “burned off” in a place the Catholic church calls “purgatory”. However, the fact that you use the phrase “the rest” of our sins, tells me that either Jesus incredible painful sacrifice on the cross for those who would believe, was NOT GOOD ENOUGH, but only a “partial fix” so to speak. Also it brings to my mind the thought that I can/must work for my salvation, whichever way I would look at that, and actually participate in my own salvation. That means that I will obtain credit for this “work” that I do with respect to sins I commit in this life. I can quote you a “slew” of scriptures that should tell you that your reasoning is wrong, even if you had correctly understood the scripture references that you are referring to.
By creating “external” “man made” doctrines to “interpret” scripture, you firstly corrupt scripture. Secondly, you confuse people that are looking for a "way out of their misery through a relationship with Jesus (God) their Savior. And lastly, you are destroying hope, besides the confidence and joy that comes from an assurance of salvation, and the special intimacy with a loving God that always desires to be intimate with us as we live and grow through our walk with Jesus. It is by living through Him and Him living in us that we will “work out our salvation”, as the Apostle Paul phrases it. However, that is STILL not of ourselves, but by the power of the One who lives in us!
It is clearly indicated in the epistles that in God;s eyes, we are perfect for our spirit that we received when we were born again (Nicodemus) is perfect.
That is honoring Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross - no other contribution from us than accepting His sacrifice on the cross through the shed blood of God’s only, beloved and begotten Son. Before He took His last breath on the cross,
he called out, “It is finished.!”.
His GRACE is sufficient for us!
For goodness sake!!!
This is why it is so hard for anyone today. Satan loves this age, as he now has every outlet of the different forms of media to corrupt all. He and his followers dont care what it is that captures your attention, as long as it draws you further away from God. That is his whole intention.And I do believe he has infiltrated the Catholic Church very ,very, early in its formation to corrupt individuals into a false teaching and spread it through the Church to deceive all. That is why it is very important to really understand the 4 gospels fully as to Christ’s teachings. Now I know there will be a huge uproar from everyone on what I just wrote, but really, do you not think Satan has been doing this all along, corrupting the entire church. What better way to mislead people than to use God’s organiztion itself. He is cunning, and the whole world lies in his wake.
Remember, Jesus even told his disciples: “Many false Messiahs and prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders so great, as to deceive,if that were posssible, even the elect.” So then, if the elect can be deceived, what about those who are trying to believe and work on their salvation. Can they not be mislead? Thai is why i do not believe a purgatoy exists. Jesus never hinted it did and would not have forgot to speak about it.
Also, can anyone tell me why earth was made? Or why there will be a new earth after judgement day? Who will be there? If everyone is in heaven, who will be there?Why a need for a new earth? Did not God create man to live forever on a paradise earth?Adam lived for almost a thousand years.As did most of the early men and women.It wasn’t until Adam and Eve sinned that God told them they woul die and return to dust.He never told them they wuld die and go to Heaven, but back into the earth.
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BarryI
Guest
OK, here it goes. You were told Jesus came to save the world, and if you go to Mass every Sunday and recieve Holy Communion, you will go to heaven when you die.Now, you leave Mass and go about your daily life and once you step outside the church doors and into your life, you do not think about Jesus or why he came, or what God expects of us,because life takes hold of you. You may go about your daily life using foul language,being angry at your wife, kids, neighbor,etc,you may watch shows that repulses God and exhibits sexual situations or acts of violence.You may steal, cheat, lie, gamble,fornicate,etc., and never think twice about it. And then, lo and behold, it’s Sunday again. Time to repeat the cycle. Oh yeah, you may or may not go to confession too.BarryL,
I am really curious about you statement,
“You can believe in Jesus and even attend Services, but never really know the truth and live according to His Words.”
How does that happen!!! Perhaps you would have to explain what “believe in Jesus” means…
Do you see what I now mean.To know the truth and live it is very,very, hard, and Satan knows this, which is why he knows you and he and his followers dont even have to work hard on you any more because they have you. You are a creature of habit and he has at his disposal, all media to corrupt you.Living the way of the word is another matter and it takes a lot of discipline. Satan has been around for eons and he and his followers know man. End of story.
That is why the true believers do things differently and do their level best each and every day to live in God’s word and avoid the things that lead to temptation which leads to sin. Hope this answers your question.
M
MadeAFace
Guest
Catholics baptize their infants because it replaced circumcision. Who made that call? The magistarium of the church (which is also in the bible). No the baby doesn’t have a say in being baptized. The parents are dedicating them to the kingdom of God just as the jews did when their babies were circumcised. They still have to accept Jesus when they get older and to be responsible for their own faith and to accept the promises that their parents made for them when they were too young to make them as infants. This is what Confirmation is.
M
MadeAFace
Guest
Barry, the same things can be said for non-catholics (and I have known more protestants who leave church and do the same things you are talking about.) They leave church, go home, get drunk, live in sexual sin and they believe their grace is a license to sin. Yes Catholics go to confession. Protestants just kinda say “sorry I sinned God, I won’t do it again, we’re cool now right?” But how do you know in your heart that you were truly repentant or forgiven? I think its a lot easier to repeat the same sins when you don’t have to confess and be held accountable, you can just blow it off and forget about it.
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