Barry please explain these verses to me
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
The dead rich man is obviously suffering and is showing compassion to his brothers by warning them of this place. Please explain how this man could be in heaven or in hell.
You can’t because the description of this place doesn’t fit either hell or heaven.
2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.
Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.
Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.
We have given you the verses that refer to the concept of purgatory from scripture , but Barry you know as well as we do that you are being unreasonable here.
Let me show you why.
Barry , you believe in the doctrine of the trinity right? Now your job is to show me and every person on this thread where Jesus mentions the name trinity specifically. You can’t because that word isn’t there but the concept can be seen. Did you know that the doctrine of the trinity wasn’t fully formed until 250 years after Jesus and holy scripture were here. This doctrine was fully defined by the Catholic Church . Please show us otherwise.
The trinity didnt just pop up as a fully formed doctrine in the first century, it took 3 centuries fully define , yet you believe in it now because it was fully formed by the Catholic Church .
Please also tell us how could you possibly know from the bible itself which books within the bible are God inspired and which aren’t . Let me save you the trouble , you can’t because that answer isn’t in the bible. The New Testament canon which you believe in as the inerrant word of God was established by the Catholic Church between the late 4th century and the early 5th century by catholic Councils.
Did you also know that the ancient African Christian Church didn’t believe that the book of Hebrews didn’t belong in the bible because they didn’t believe that it was God inspired. Who decided that it was God inspired? The Roman Catholic Church.
The authority to define the canon of the New Testament was given by Christ himself to the Catholic Church through Peter the rock and the keys etc etc.
Now we can argue about this Barry ad nauseum but in the end you either trust the authority of Christ that was given to his original Church or you trust your own private authority. If you trust your own private authority, then how can you say that jehovas witnesses are wrong, or Christadelphians or Mormons are wrong.
You really need to read your ancient church history, your bible history and the writings of the students of the apostles (the apostolic fathers).
You obviously think that the bible just miraculously dropped from the sky with a fully formed divine table of contents. Christian History denies this completely , and if you don’t know your Christian history you will keep making the error of private interpretation.
Even Peter says in the bible that there are certain verses in scripture that are vague and we would need an authoritative teacher to teach them to us.
Now who are you going to trust, your pastor who wasn’t ordained through a continuous line of apostolic succession or the very students of the apostles who studied at the apostles feet and were ordained by the apostles to teach the truth either orally or by written word as The apostle Paul said.
Now I believe that the other posters on this thread gave some very good verses for the concept of purgatory, but since you only submit to your authority to privately interprete these verses the way u see fit no one can convince you of purgatory. The ancient Christian Church never believed that any Tom dick and Harry could interpret scripture privately and part from the Church that Christ established upon Peter the Rock.
You have a lot of research to do Barry.
I pray that you will undertake this huge task ASAP
In blessings
