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KjetilK
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And the cat is out of the bag. Who teaches that purgatory means involves “being punished for your impurities over a period of time”?
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Koineman
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You know, I’m really not interested in indulging your polemical tendencies. Really. That’s not why I started this thread.
God bless you.
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Koineman
Guest
On to the next part of the passage:
This part about wages seems to anticipate what is to shortly follow, i.e., the determination of which works receive a reward. What exactly are those works that receive wages? He seems to answer in v. 9: Their works consisted of sowing/watering in God’s “field”–which is the Corinthians themselves. Their work, for which they will be rewarded, was their apostolic/missionary work among the Corinthians.
In vv. 5-6, Paul expands on why the Corinthians were so wrong to take sides: The people to whom they were claiming to belong were only servants who were used to bring the gospel to them, as God directed. Although they each had different roles in that task (v. 6), that didn’t make one any better than another, since it was God who gave the growth (v. 7). Thus, the apostles themselves were equal to each other, being merely servants who did what God assigned to them. Each of them will receive the appropriate wages for their labor.
This part about wages seems to anticipate what is to shortly follow, i.e., the determination of which works receive a reward. What exactly are those works that receive wages? He seems to answer in v. 9: Their works consisted of sowing/watering in God’s “field”–which is the Corinthians themselves. Their work, for which they will be rewarded, was their apostolic/missionary work among the Corinthians.
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rcwitness
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Still listening…
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
No biggie, edited.
Carry on.
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rcwitness
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Btw, do you like the RSV-CE? I personally own an ESV and an RSV-CE. I think they are quite compatible (save the different table of contents) but I genuinely do prefer the RSV-CE. I have found a couple minor things over the years which I thought was better in the ESV, but over all I think the RSV-CE is more accurate.
I’ve appreciated biblegateway very much and sometimes scripture4all too.
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Koineman
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Thanks a bunch!
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Koineman
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I have a soft spot for the RSV, as it was one of my first Bibles back in my early days of being a Christian. I have the RSV-CE here at home. I mainly used it here as a concession of sorts to you Catholic folks.
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Koineman
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Feel free to chime in about the text. If you think I’m mistaken on any step of the way, it might be best to point it out now rather than later.
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rcwitness
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Sounds good so far. If anything, I would probably remind that God’s ‘reward’, ‘recompence’, ‘merit’, etc is not just for the good that men have been compelled to do in His service and grace, but also punishment for the wrong that man has done, thought, or said that has influenced and affected us, which is done outside of faith (even if done for the sake of faith).
but carry on… we are almost to the reference to what many, including the Cat Faith, understand as Purgatory.
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Koineman
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So far he hasn’t mentioned anything about reward or punishment, positive or negative results of working. All he’s been pointing out is the work he and the other apostles have done, that they have been co-laborers. We’ll have to see if the following text specifies whether he has in mind reward, punishment, or both.
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Koineman
Guest
On to the next two verses:
Although he is getting a little more specific here about the kind of labor he had done, he is still referring to himself and the other apostles as laborers. He laid the groundwork for it, while others are building upon it.
In this part he also shifts gears by issuing a warning: Everyone who builds on his foundation must do so carefully. Why? The following text will answer that.
Paul says he laid a foundation, but not in the same sense that Christ is the foundation, since he goes on in the next verse to qualify that Jesus is the only foundation. So when he says he laid a foundation, he is likely referring to the church-planting work he had done, i.e., he started the church in Corinth by planting the seeds there. That seems reinforced by his comparison of himself to a “skilled master builder” as well as his earlier description of the Corinthian believers as “God’s building.” This was the task that God had given to him in particular, a statement that echoes his earlier comment: “as the Lord assigned to each.” Paul is describing his God-given job in the Corinthian “building” as the one who started the edifice, laid the groundwork for it.
Although he is getting a little more specific here about the kind of labor he had done, he is still referring to himself and the other apostles as laborers. He laid the groundwork for it, while others are building upon it.
In this part he also shifts gears by issuing a warning: Everyone who builds on his foundation must do so carefully. Why? The following text will answer that.
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rcwitness
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“…and each shall receive his wages according to his labor.”
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Koineman
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And that doesn’t specify punishment or reward either, unless the context specifies it. What was the passage? Can you provide a quote that includes the context?“…and each shall receive his wages according to his labor.”
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rcwitness
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“…and each shall receive his wages according to his labor.”
That was the point I made earlier. That its not one or the other, but both.
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rcwitness
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Also, its very important to note that Paul is addressing believers…
“But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ.”
He is speaking to those who are baptized members whom he considers brothers in the faith. Yet need much instruction.
“But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ.”
He is speaking to those who are baptized members whom he considers brothers in the faith. Yet need much instruction.
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Koineman
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We’ll see. We have to get that ***from ***the text, not read it into the text. If the idea of punishment is there, it should be clear, i.e., something painful happening to the person.
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Koineman
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I agree. He clearly describes them as being spiritually immature but believers, since he says they are “in Christ.”
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rcwitness
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Would you like me to show you that the exposure and hurt which sins does to others will have a punishing effect on the one who caused it from the same Apostle you are teaching from?
When God’s perfect presence and all perceiving eye exposes all of our weaknesses, there will be no where to turn and hide. There will be no covering up what we participated and allowed to infect our soul.
In this life, we can go through this same process which Paul is talking about. But it is done through His instruments such as Brothers in the faith, Scripture, Church Teaching, our conscience, etc. But in The Day, it is the almighty Himself who reveals everything.
Consider this use of ‘punishment’ used by Paul to the same men he gave a glimpse of God’s purging, but in the Church’s body sense:
2 Corinthians 2 (RSVCE)
5 “But if any one has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measure—not to put it too severely—to you all. 6 For such a one this punishment by the majority is enough; 7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything. 10 Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, 11 to keep Satan from gaining the advantage over us; for we are not ignorant of his designs.”
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Koineman
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At this point, I should state this reminder that the purpose of this thread is to examine whether 1 Cor. 3 proves Purgatory, as I wrote in the OP:
Bringing in other Scriptures is okay and even needful at some point, but I think that should be done only after the primary question in this thread is answered: Does 1 Cor. 3 prove Purgatory as it is described in the CCC?
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