Purgatory and 1 Corinthians 15:52

[Pryority7]

How did I take it “out of context.” Paul, in 2 Cor. 4:14, assures his readers that He who raised the Lord Jesus WILL also raise (bodily) all of us, and this according to divine grace (vs. 15). He says that even though our “outer man” is decaying (our physical body), our “inner man” (i.e. the “new man” in Christ) is being renewed day by day.

So what does that have to do with the point at hand here? Nothing. Even we Catholics believe that God is renewing us day by day. You need to get your theology straight ben…either we are covered in Christ’s righteousness or God is transforming us from within…aka…renewing…aka…changing…aka…sanctifying…just make up your mind on where you stand.

And using his own experience he states:“For momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things that are seen, but at the things that are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal” (2 Cor. 4:17-18).He goes on to say in chapter five that when this earthly tent (present body) is torn down (dies) we will have a “building from God” eternal in the heavens (speaking of the furture resurrection of these yet unredeemed bodies, a body whose architect is God).

Once again this has no bearing on how we must all stand before the judgement seat of Christ, except in the case of what we DID do while in the body…whether good or bad…Ben, we will all have an account to give on the Day of the Lord. You think this judgement is about rewards only, when scripture is clear it’s more than just that. Why do you continue to persist in your own man made theology?

Paul is consistent in his theology, because he writes to the Philippians:“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has to subject all things to Himself” (Phil. 3:20-21, cf. 1 Cor. 15:35-48).This verse (and the 1 Cor. reference) not only speaks of the future bodily resurrection of those who have “died in Christ,” but a future translation of living saints at the time of the rapture of Christ’s Church: “Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed” (i.e., mortal to immortal, see 1 Cor. 15:51).

Oh Boy!!! Don’t get me started on the whole Pre-Rapture, Pre millenial view on the end times! I specialize in that area! I used to believe, even as a Catholic, in the Rapture-Tribulation-Second Coming-Millineal Reign scheme…for years…okay? It wasn’t until I did more objective research that I realized that this is just a less than two centuries fabrication created by some scottsh dude named Darby…
Ben, please don’t go there…

In 2 Cor. 5:5 Paul says that it is God Himself who prepared us for this very purpose (immortality) and gave us the Spirit as a “pledge.” The Greek word being “arrabona,” describing the portion of a purchase money paid on the receipt of goods as a guarantee that the rest of the sum would eventually be forthcoming. The giving of the Spirit to indwell true believers is a surety of their future immortality

.

Okay, now that you’ve brought our salvation down to a financial deal in Wall Street, I can now say without reservation that this does not take away what 2 Corinthians 5:10 says…What we will DO in this life and in this body HAS bearing on our eternal destiny. God does not take away our freedom to be involved with our eventual transformation to be Godly…God is involved, yes, without Him we can’t do it…yes…but Will God do it without us? No!!! That involves works of love…given to us by Grace, given back to Him in praise…
You can take THAT to the bank…

 

[Pryority7]

QUOTE]You see, Pry, Christ on the cross redeemed the whole man: body, soul and spirit. The redemption of our bodies is yet to come (Rom. 8:23). Until then, “we walk by faith and not by sight” in God’s immutable Word/promises (2 Cor. 5:7), and whether “at home” (in this present body) or “absent” (with the Lord) our ambition is to be pleasing to Him (2 Cor. 5:9).“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each of us may be recompensed for his deeds in the body (lit. the things through the body), according to what he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10).The context in which this tribunal is presented by Paul in this chapter speaks nothing of eternal damnation of true believers who have the Spirit from God as a guarantee (arrabon

This reading does NOT HAVE TO explicitly state the words “eternal damnation”. Any Christian in his or her right mind understands the idea of what will happen at the judgement seat of Christ as far as sinful actions go. Come on!

) of their future immortality. But this tribunal will assess, with complete justice and impartiality, the worth of the believer’s actions in this present, unredeemed body AFTER conversion. It will disclose both the “good” and the “bad.” The “good” being that which is valuable to the kingdom (and thus rewarded), and the “bad” being that which is worthless (hence not rewarded, see 1 Cor. 3:10-15).

Since when did YOU equate “bad” with “worthlessness”?

I pointed out in a previous post that 2 Cor. 5:5-8 reveals the total absence of the doctrine of “purgatory” in Paul’s theology. To him to be absent from this present body is to be instantly at “home with the Lord.” There is no intermediate state for beleivers fully redeemed by Christ’s blood. There’s no room for it.

Duh…Purgatory is the transition from this life to glory…it’s as simple as that…This intermediate state is completely COVERED in Christ’s blood. Just like now! It just finishes then…It does’t contradict, take away, or decrease Christ’s sacrifice. Christ’s sacrifice completes, increases and fullfills our eternal destiny through this experience.

 

[sara888]

** Bene said:" The implication here being that those who DO believe will not die in their sins. Hence, no sins to cleanse after death and dispelling the myth of purgatory, once and for all.
"

Sara ask’s
So if we die a harden sinner, do we still go to heaven, I thought sin sends one to hell, ??? because of CHrist and his limitless Mercy we get to go to Purgatory for purification, since nothing “UNHOLY MAY ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM”**

 

[bene7]

sara888:

So if we die a harden sinner, do we still go to heaven,

Nope.

I thought sin sends one to hell, ???

Nope. No one goes to hell because of sins. They go because of *unbelief. They’re judged by their deeds because they refused to believe in the One who died in their stead (Rev. 20: *.“I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins” (Jn. 8:24)

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life” (Jn. 3:16)

“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (Jn. 3:18)

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free giftof God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom. 6:23).

because of Christ and his limitless Mercy we get to go to Purgatory for purification

Actually God’s infinite mercy is revealed and demonstrated to all the world in the Person and work of His Son while here on earth:"And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;The sitting position is the position of rest. It’s on the cross that the work of purifying sins was divinely accomplished, He now rests from His labor at the right hand of the Majesty on High. You or I can have absolutely nothing to do with purifying sins. This truth is addressed to faith, but it seems you’ll put no faith in His work at all, but rather in unbelief turn to yourself. That’s a dangerous place to be Sara.

since nothing “UNHOLY MAY ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM”

That’s right. Now read how Paul addresses the believers in Corinth:"…to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours" (1 Cor. 1:2)He identifies them as having been sanctified in Christ (i.e., set apart), and “saints” (holy ones) by calling. On what ground?"But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,"No Sara, according to Scripture, the idea of “purgatory” reeks of unbelief, not the delightful fragrance of divine “mercy.”

The Mal. 3:1-6 passage is addressed to Israel, the “sons of Jacob.” Those whom the Lord purifies are the “sons of Levi” (vs. 3) that the “sons of Jacob” (vs. 6) may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. It’s an offering of “Judah” and “Jerusalem” (vs. 4) The “messenger” part of this prophecy was fulfilled in John the Baptist (Lk. 1:76; Matt. 11:10), but the rest is yet to be literally fulfilled in the future (just as the “messenger” part of it was literally fulfilled). This prophecy has nothing to do with the Church Christ has been building since the Day of Pentecost, made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles who are now “in Christ Jesus,” who while on earth purified them of all sins through the sacrifice of Himself.“Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” (Heb. 9:26)The purifying of the Levis in the Malachi passage has to do with sanctification, not the washing away of sins. Sins can only be washed away by blood, and only by the blood of God’s Lamb (Jn. 1:29). This He accomplished on the cross.

Blessings,
Bene

 

[sara888]

**bene said:" Nope. No one goes to hell because of sins. ** "

**
Sara says: Your statement above is absurd and unbiblical, Christians who believe in Christ yet live in sin or are unable to stop offending God because of non- repenting or addictions to sins, etc… do indeed according to Holy Scripture go to Hell. I agree the denial of Chirst does send one to Hell yes but believers are not guranteed final salvation into the KIngdom of Heaven, there are many If’s and consequences for us believers**.

SARA

 

[sara888]

******** Mathhew 5:22": But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. ********

Matthew 5"29": And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

matthew23:“33”: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The bible is for believers so sinners who have faith in Christ that live in sin do go to hell according to the bible. I have hundreds more verses with regard to sinning and hell…

Bene said:The purifying of the Levis in the Malachi passage has to do with sanctification, not the washing away of sins. Sins can only be washed away by blood, and only by the blood of God’s Lamb (Jn. 1:29). This He accomplished on the cross.

What Christ died for on the cross was our present sins, he died to save all believers or Christians from FINAL DAMNATION INTO HELL, however he gave us LAWS and COMMANDMENTS For Belivers to follow who truly love and abide in him, he also gave us CONSEQUENCES IF WE DO NOT ABIDE IN HIM.

Sara

 

[Pryority7]

It seems like Bene and Sandusky have left the building. I’m sure they’re at another thread or something trying to sow their seeds of doubt among less informed Catholics.

-That’s all folks