Purgatory and prayers for the dead

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I would like to ask for some help on the dogma of purgatory. How do I explain it to an Eastern Orthodox Christian(s) who believes in prayers for the dead, but not purgatory itself? Another thread on the CAF mentioned that we do not need to pray for souls in Heaven, and souls in hell are beyond hope, so there’s nothing our prayers can do for them. Some Eastern Orthodox, however, believe that our prayers can actually free the souls from hell - how would you answer that? Any proof from tradition (e.g., Church Fathers), specifically on the fact that souls in hell are beyond any hope for salvation and that our prayers can do nothing for these souls, are welcome! (I’ve read the Fathers on the issue of purgatory itself, but not about whether souls from hell can be saved and go to heaven.)
Thanks in advance to all who reply!! 🙂
 
Just my opinion, but I think if you are in Hell, you are beyond redemption because at that point you would be so hard hearted against God and that your hatred would be burning against anything holy, which would make you reject any help.
 
pepin1980 said:
I would like to ask for some help on the dogma of purgatory. How do I explain it to an Eastern Orthodox Christian(s) who believes in prayers for the dead, but not purgatory itself?
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Purgatory is simply a term we use to explain why we pray for the dead. It’s kind of like a tool booth or a cleaning room. He doesn’t have to use that term, or any term, as long as he knows that those who have passed over can benefit from our prayers.

The best bet is for you to inform yourself by reading some good Orthodox literature so you get a good knowledge of their understanding of why they pray for the dead. But don’t be lazy and ask him to explain, he’ll probably just think your being confrontational. Go to the Eastern Catholicism form and discuss it there to get the knowledge you need.
 
Thank you, agrange! It sounds logical, but Eastern Orthodox need more than that, they need to see that this is what the Church Fathers believed.
MarcoPolo said:
Here is a link to Early Church Fathers on hell.

Irenaeus is among those ECFs, whom the Orthodox consider a Church Father. Same with Ignatius, Justin Martyr, and others. :o
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Thanks A LOT, MarcoPolo!!! That’s exactly what I needed!!
Ignatius said:
Purgatory is simply a term we use to explain why we pray for the dead. It’s kind of like a tool booth or a cleaning room. He doesn’t have to use that term, or any term, as long as he knows that those who have passed over can benefit from our prayers.

The best bet is for you to inform yourself by reading some good Orthodox literature so you get a good knowledge of their understanding of why they pray for the dead. But don’t be lazy and ask him to explain, he’ll probably just think your being confrontational. Go to the Eastern Catholicism form and discuss it there to get the knowledge you need.
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Thanks for the info, Ignatius! I do know why Eastern Orthodox pray for the dead and what they believe, I used to be Orthodox up until about 2 yrs. ago 🙂 . I just couldn’t prove why the Catholic Church believes that no one can be saved from hell - I was sure there was a tradition in the Church on this issue, but simply didn’t know it.
 
I would say the difference is in the vocabulary.

Hell was often defined as any state not in complete union with God.

Hell of the patriarchs was where good men waited for the coming of Christ
Hell of limbo is where good people remain where there is no punishment
Hell of purgatory is where those who are being purged of evil
Hell of the damned are those who live in everlasting punishment.

So what you are discussing are the hell of the damned vs the hell of purgatory.
 
Ignatius said:
Purgatory is simply a term we use to explain why we pray for the dead. It’s kind of like a tool booth or a cleaning room. He doesn’t have to use that term, or any term, as long as he knows that those who have passed over can benefit from our prayers.

The best bet is for you to inform yourself by reading some good Orthodox literature so you get a good knowledge of their understanding of why they pray for the dead. But don’t be lazy and ask him to explain, he’ll probably just think your being confrontational. Go to the Eastern Catholicism form and discuss it there to get the knowledge you need.
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Purgatory is NOT simply a term we use to explain why we pray for the dead. Purgatory is a REAL place. I know because I deal with Purgatorial souls all the time. People go to Purgatory because they have sin on their souls, but not enough to be separated from God forever. They do have to go through a cleansing process, and be separated from God during this time, because you cannot enter the presence of God with a blight on your soul. The time that these souls have to spend in Purgatory is lessened when we pray for them. Here are some great links with info on Purgatory:

holysouls.info/index.php?start=11
catholictradition.org/Classics/holy-souls.htm
purgatory.ca/pray-purg.php
holysoulscrusade.org/Holy-Souls-Rosary.html

I think that your doctrine of releasing souls from Hell is part of the Purgatorial doctrine. You see, Purgatory was always defined as a kind of upper level of Hell. It wasn’t actual Gehenna, where souls are eternally damned, but defined by the term Sheol, which was an in between place. Either way, it’s an afterlife separation from God. When in the credo we say that Jesus descended to Hell, it doesn’t say Gehenna, it says Sheol. That’s why the phrase “descended to the dead” is more correct than “descended into Hell.”
 
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