Purgatory Clarification

[JonathonofOhio]

JonathonofOhio

The original post inquired how does praying relieve the burden of Purgatory for someone else. In my first response, I answered his question using the analogy of a speeding ticket and some one else pays for your fine.

Later on the conversation turned to the existence of purgatory in an oblique manner. My response was curtailed because it was so long.

If you or anyone else on this net desire the full response write to me at hebijudo@hotmail.com and I shall relay the full missive

When a person is in Purgatory, there is no longer any desire to be attached to sin, None what so ever. There are two punishments, 1. One of the “loss” of being with God in Heaven, 2. The other physical fire, which burns away the “rust” of temporal punishment due to our sins.

There are 4 levels of Purgatory. The Lowest is the worst and much like Hell. The second still combining physical punishment and the loss of being with our Creator.

The third is MOSTLY a relief of the physical sufferings but still a greater loss knowing you are near but still have not achieve the state of total purity to enter Heaven

The 4th is reserved for religious.

These four levels have been documented by Doctors of our Church. You may wish to type in Doctor’s of the Roman Catholic Church concerning Purgatory. You will have at your disposal a bundle of information and not just conjector.

An EXCELLENT book on Purgatory is By Fr. E.X. Schouppe S.J. You can buy the hard copy OR you can go online and read the FREE copy. Google it. Fr Schouppe explains in detail what Purgatory is, and it is NOT an yearning for attachment to “creatures” or sins of this world, but the desire to rid ourselves of the “rust” of sin so we can be with God

Remember, NOTHING unclean can enter Heaven Rev

[Rev 21:27] But nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Read my first post and then write me for the second section of my second post

El Snake O

I’ll send you an email. That sounds like an interesting read. This thread got me thinking more on it over the last day and half, and it has always been a topic of interest for me.

 

[thenobes]

I must be missing something about Purgatory. I hope someone here can explain it.

When we sin, in addition to separating ourselves from God and the loss of grace, we also incur temporal punishment. When we go to confession we receive grace and our relationship with God is re-established but the temporal punishment remains. That can be dealt with in various ways during our lifetime but, if any remains when we die, we go to Purgatory to deal with it. (I’m assuming we die in a state of grace.)

The purpose of Purgatory is not so much punishment but cleansing of our imperfections. Although I’ve never heard this taught, in pondering Purgatory it seems to me that it would be impossible to sin in Purgatory. Otherwise we might commit a mortal sin and then we can’t enter Heaven at all which would contradict the church’s teaching that everyone who goes to Purgatory goes to Heaven.

The church also teaches that the church militant can shorten the time in Purgatory - I know, time is different after death - by prayers, works of mercy, etc. Here’s my problem. If a person is in Purgatory because they need to be purified by the cleansing fire, how does someone on Earth doing something cleanse someone in Purgatory?

To give a more concrete example, if I drive too fast and get a ticket, how does someone paying my ticket cleanse me from being a lead-foot? It almost seems counter-productive.

I hope my question is clear.

With regards to hastening the time in purgatory, perhaps it could be that we are sharing the burden or suffering that the soul needs to undergo in the cleansing process. That would explain the shortening of time in that ihe purging process may occur at a faster rate although the soul would still be suffering the maximum pain possible (that it can endure).

Just a thought

peace
steve

 

[BarryI]

With regards to hastening the time in purgatory, perhaps it could be that we are sharing the burden or suffering that the soul needs to undergo in the cleansing process. That would explain the shortening of time in that ihe purging process may occur at a faster rate although the soul would still be suffering the maximum pain possible (that it can endure).

Just a thought

peace
steve

First if all there is no such place called purgatory. Surely Jesus would have preached this to His disciples just like he taught them about His Father,heaven,and Satan. He never once mentioned a place called purgatory, nor ever hinted at such s place.

 

[rcwitness]

First if all there is no such place called purgatory. Surely Jesus would have preached this to His disciples just like he taught them about His Father,heaven,and Satan. He never once mentioned a place called purgatory, nor ever hinted at such s place.

Purgatory is a term the Church uses to describe the judgement of God towards His own people. It is the penetrating fire of God into our whole being, which includes all of our deeds.

Jesus does in fact describe this reality using metaphors of fire, prison, and beating! It does not take away from Christ’s work, suffering, mercy, or merit.

Purgatory is no more a “place” than the Living Church of God is a “place”. It is the souls of the saved Children of God coming into the full justice of God and His Son. Every work which is from the Father done in faith possible only because Jesus merited God’s forgiveness to mankind, will remain pure and eternal. Those works of selfishness, greed, lust, envy, strife, malice, etc. are suffered in a similar manner as our Lord suffered against sin. Though He was without sin and suffered completely to redeem us out of His own goodness.

Peace
Michael

 

[po18guy]

First if all there is no such place called purgatory. Surely Jesus would have preached this to His disciples just like he taught them about His Father,heaven,and Satan. He never once mentioned a place called purgatory, nor ever hinted at such s place.

You are ignoring an awful lot of scripture.

It is not a place - it is a state.

 

[SnakeUSMC]

First if all there is no such place called purgatory. Surely Jesus would have preached this to His disciples just like he taught them about His Father,heaven,and Satan. He never once mentioned a place called purgatory, nor ever hinted at such s place.

First of all, if you want to know where Purgatory is mentioned in Holy Scriptures which GOD (The Trinity) Inspired His writers to proclaim. There are THREE persons in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the one who became flesh and dwell among us. But that did not make Him any Less than God because He IS and Always IS GOD. Nor did it negate His inspired teachings of the Old Testament. Because IF it did, it would PROVE Jesus was not God which He is.

write me at

hebijudo@hotmail.com

I shall give where Purgatory is found in Holy Scriptures AND is mentioned by NAME 64 times.

In the intern before you write me, you should read this link

chnetwork.org/2012/02/a-protestant-historian-discovers-the-catholic-church-conversion-story-of-a-david-anders-ph-d/

But write me and you will discover this wonderful gift God gave to us.

Yours in Christ

El Snake O.

 

[bedan_elite]

Our wills are frozen at death. Thus, we cannot decide for good or evil after death - we have done that in this life. We are not paying for another’s sins as one would pay a ticket, as we have no direct control over their purification process. By exercising the virtue of charity, we can lend our help to those in purgatory via offerings we make to God, but the soul still has to be purified. We cannot be purified for them. We ask God to mercifully shorten their time in purgatory, as He is the ultimate in mercy and is capable of doing all things. The Church has held bound that we may offer our suffering for the sake of those being purified. So, what the Church has held bound on earth is held bound in heaven (or on the way to it). But, remember that purification does not happen exclusively in purgatory: our entire Christian lives are one of constant purification, and thus some people may serve out their purgatory on earth and be ready for admittance into heaven upon their death. Purgatory is thus a living experience, and not a death experience.

 

[SnakeUSMC]

First if all there is no such place called purgatory. Surely Jesus would have preached this to His disciples just like he taught them about His Father,heaven,and Satan. He never once mentioned a place called purgatory, nor ever hinted at such s place.

Dear Berry,

You stated before there is no place as Purgatory, so I gave you my email which you did not respond to

hebijudo@hotmail.com

But John was kind enough to post it on his web site. Here is the link where you may find my scribblings.

defendingthebride.com/sc/purgatory2.html

After reading the notations, you shall find Purgatory is indeed mentioned in Holy Scripture by name 64 times.

Any other questions, please post or write me directly

Your Brother in Christ

El Sneaky Snake O