Purgatory - Do most people end up there?

[Darryl_B]

Sorry, I should elaborate on what I have just said with the Scripture that has lead me to view purgatory in that way.

Matthew 5:25.

 

[Good_Fella]

It seems most likely that the majority of people go to hell. But of those who are heaven-bound, the praxis of the Church implies that most of these souls do experience purgation since we pray for them.

In the Gospels, Jesus does say that ‘wide is the gate and broad is the road to destruction - and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to eternal life - and only a few find it.’ Perhaps our Lord is implying that the majority of souls do end up in Hell. Because of the existence of Purgatory, that majority might be slight. We read in Psalm 116 that ‘God is merciful and just’. It is because God’s mercy and justice do not negate each other that I find it rash to doubt the existence of Purgatory.

PAX
:heaven:

 

[Gorgias]

It has become my impression though I don’t know if it is correct Church teaching or not, that purgatory will not only be an individual thing. It appears to me that reconciliation among spouses siblings, relatives, friends, enemies needs to occur prior, and so if a separated couple, one dies, that one will be in purgatory until the spouse dies and reconciliation is made there in purgatory between the two, and they will be there until they resolve their differences.

No, that doesn’t seem quite right. After all, marriage is ‘only’ “until death do you part”. Besides, your idea means that a person cannot get to heaven until the person who lives the longest (among those with whom he had a disagreement) dies. Moreover, what if a person you need to reconcile with doesn’t end up in purgatory, but rather, ends up in… umm… a rather ‘warmer’ destination? How would we say that reconciliation happens then?

Here’s the thing: all sin – all lack of charity and lack of reconciliation – is really an offense against God. Therefore, ‘reconciling’ with God (as it were) in purgatory takes care of the dynamic you’ve raised here. So, once a person is made perfect in the sight of God (not in the sight of their neighbor or their spouse), they are ready for heaven.

 

[Good_Fella]

I recall reading in Dante’s Purgatorio that the more selfish people are the deeper the level of consignment of the soul. Original sin has been defined by theologians as inherent selfishness. It’s selfishness in its most malignant form when people refuse to repent of their mortal sins and make reparation for them, thereby depriving themselves of sanctifying grace which the soul needs in order to avoid Hell.

I did the Dante Test online to see where my soul might end up if I happened to die that day. Well, I ended up in Purgatory, Level 1. :extrahappy:

 

[Darryl_B]

No, that doesn’t seem quite right. After all, marriage is ‘only’ “until death do you part”. Besides, your idea means that a person cannot get to heaven until the person who lives the longest (among those with whom he had a disagreement) dies. Moreover, what if a person you need to reconcile with doesn’t end up in purgatory, but rather, ends up in… umm… a rather ‘warmer’ destination? How would we say that reconciliation happens then?

Here’s the thing: all sin – all lack of charity and lack of reconciliation – is really an offense against God. Therefore, ‘reconciling’ with God (as it were) in purgatory takes care of the dynamic you’ve raised here. So, once a person is made perfect in the sight of God (not in the sight of their neighbor or their spouse), they are ready for heaven.

Thank you for the reply. Here on earth, while we can receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation, doesn’t penance have a part to play?

If one should end up in a slightly ‘warmer’ destination then the binding would no longer exist.

I am curious then whether I can correctly understand the prison of Matthew 5:25 as being purgatory.

 

[meltzerboy]

After reading through the following site, it seems to imply that most souls end up in one of several levels of purgatory for purification.

mysticsofthechurch.com/2012/04/amazing-stories-from-purgatory-and.html

It seems like only souls that outright reject and refuse God will end up in hell.

I cringe even asking for clarification, as I want to avoid curiosity and trust in God’s providential judgment, but this assertion about purgatory makes me feel like the majority of people will ultimately end up in Heaven. We will either spend our earthly life with much suffering, as was the case with many of the Saints, or we will spend another lifetime in purgatory being cleansed and prepared for Heaven.

The ugly, selfish self inside me feels almost like, ‘why bother?,’ why bother striving so devoutly on earth if I will ultimately be side by side by so many lukewarm souls in Heaven some day?

This seems almost Universalist or Unitarian in belief, so I’m not sure if the article/site is credible or not.

Ultimately, I want to strive to be most pleasing to God, as obedient as I possibly can. I am not looking to just ‘get by’ in my faith, so will not be basing my future behavior on what is or isn’t the case with purgatory. I guess I’m just looking for a better understanding of what we actually know.

Thanks for any direction you may have.
God bless.

Upon exhaustive observation and research, I can definitively say in answer to your question that we do not know!

Further, leading a moral life according to G-d’s will should not be ONLY for the purpose of salvation according to Christianity, although I have gathered this is the main or ultimate emphasis. It is certainly not primarily for this purpose based on Judaism’s teachings. A virtuous life is its own reward and it is commanded by G-d: these are reasons enough.

 

[Gorgias]

Further, leading a moral life according to G-d’s will should not be ONLY for the purpose of salvation according to Christianity, although I have gathered this is the main or ultimate emphasis. It is certainly not primarily for this purpose based on Judaism’s teachings. A virtuous life is its own reward and it is commanded by G-d: these are reasons enough.

So, Jews lead a moral life out of love of God and altruism and Christians lead moral lives out of greedy self-interest? Over-generalize much, do ya, now?

 

[Gorgias]

Here on earth, while we can receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation, doesn’t penance have a part to play?

Absolutely it does! Now, the question is whether you mean the ‘penance’ that we’re assigned in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or any ‘penance’ that we do (on our own). Both, of course, work to offset the “temporal punishment due to sin” that we experience. But, it’s important to realize that the penance we receive in confession isn’t necessarily sufficient to take care of that “temporal punishment.” It certainly chips away at it, but it’s not the case that it (by definition) gets rid of it. So, it’s possible that we might assign penances to ourselves in an attempt to cleanse ourselves of that woundedness that sin creates in us. (Remember: we’re absolutely, completely, and perfectly forgiven by God through the Sacrament of Reconciliation; but, we still bear the wounds of our sins. It’s this woundedness that penance works against.)

So, penance absolutely chips away at the “temporal punishment due to sin.” If any remains, at our death, the process of purgation removes it and perfects us.

If one should end up in a slightly ‘warmer’ destination then the binding would no longer exist.

And this is where your doctrine still continues to have problems: are you saying that you see this being stated in Scripture or Apostolic teaching?

I am curious then whether I can correctly understand the prison of Matthew 5:25 as being purgatory.

It’s a difficult passage to utilize in this way. At the very least, it’s difficult to build a theology of purgation around this verse. Luke uses this teaching as a means to understand how to “judge rightly.” Matthew’s use of this teaching is difficult, because it seems to bring together notions that don’t harmonize well: sin and punishment, in juxtaposition with the notion of completely paying off a debt, in a context that seems to point to eschatological realities. I don’t think I’d want to build a theology of purgation solely from this teaching; it’s too fraught with the possibility of falling into error…

 

[Mike_Dye]

It seems to me that most individual interpretations of what purgatory will be like is speculation at best. I would advise that we love as much as we possibly can, and trust in the Lord’s Divine Mercy. If we pass purgatory completely or are there until the end of time the important thing is that we are going to spend eternity loving and worshiping our Creator.