Purgatory: Dogma or Doctrine?

[Stylteralmaldo]

I understand that all Dogma is Doctrine, but that not necessarily all Doctrine is Dogma.

Where does Purgatory fit in the realm of Catholic teaching?

Any supporting documentation in support of the teaching being Dogma or Doctrine would be helpful if you have anything.

Thanks!

 

[bzkoss236]

Given its roots in Scripture and Tradition, I would say dogma. But I do not currently have the time as of right now for supporting documents other than the larger definitions of both words.

Definition from somone on Yahoo Answers:
"Doctrine. The word doctrine comes, by way of the Latin doctrina, from the Greek word doxa, meaning belief. The doctrine(s) of the Church, therefore, are those teachings which must be believed by the faithful. These include 1) dogmas, teachings which the Church has solemnly defined as formally revealed by God, and, 2) other teachings definitively proposed by the Church because they are connected to solemnly defined teachings.

Dogma. Dogmas are those doctrines solemnly proposed by the Church as formally revealed in Scripture or Tradition. This may have been done by papal pronouncement (Pius IX: Immaculate Conception), by a General Council (Chalcedon: Christ is two natures in one Divine Person), or by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (killing an innocent human being is gravely immoral)."

 

[MarcoPolo]

Dogma.

On p. 230 of Cardinal Ratzinger’s (now Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI) book Eschatology, he refers to the “permanent content of the doctrine of purgatory.” The permanent part, i.o.w. dogmatic, refers to the purification of the soul made capable of full union with God.

On p. 482 of Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott (from which seminarians are taught as I understand), says purgatory is a “dogma” or “de fide” (Ott’s term for the highest classification of dogma.

Things like what exactly happens in purgatory, or how “time” works, or if there’s “fire” or whatnot are not part of the permanent doctrine, although they at least help us understand the need for purgation and the severity of sin.

 

[Suslar]

Dogma. Taken from #251 of the 254 Infallibly Declared Dogmas of the Catholic Faith
The list comes from catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchdocuments/dogmas.html which says they are “Extracted from “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr Ludwig Ott; Tan Books and Publishers, Inc. 1974.”

1. All human beings subject to original sin are subject to the law of death.
2. The souls of the just which in the moment of death are free from all guilt of sin and punishment for sin, enter into Heaven.
3. The bliss of heaven lasts for all eternity.
4. The degree of perfection of the beatific vision granted to the just is proportioned to each one’s merits.
5. The souls of those who die in the condition of personal grievous sin enter Hell.
6. The punishment of Hell lasts for all eternity.
7. The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory.
8. At the end of the world Christ will come again in glory to pronounce judgment.
9. All the dead will rise again on the last day with their bodies.
10. Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

…251. The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory…

It appears that the “what” of Purgatory is Dogma, but the “how” isn’t clearly defined and therefore still in the realm of Doctrine.

In other words, Catholicism teaches dogmatically that after we die, if we are not pure enough to enter into Heaven since Scripture says nothing unclean shall enter, we enter Purgatory.

(1) What has not been defined (correct me if I am wrong) is how that all works. What we do not know is whether Purgatory is a place where we wait (like Heaven or Hell), whether it is a process (like a bath of fire as we go to Heaven). If anyone has anything to contribute regarding this aspect would be appreciated.

(2) Is it also fair enough to say that it has not been defined dogmatically whether this is a direct punishment from God? Logically, Purgatory is a punishment. I can’t see how it could be viewed any other way. Being separated from the Beatific Vision must be painful. How could it not be? But is this something that God places upon us or is this something we place upon ourselves due to the nature of our realization that we are not pure enough to enter? In other words, does God prevent our entry or do we prevent our entry? Perhaps both? Perhaps this “how” has not been defined. Thoughts?

 

[dmar198]

It appears that the “what” of Purgatory is Dogma, but the “how” isn’t clearly defined and therefore still in the realm of Doctrine.

In other words, Catholicism teaches dogmatically that after we die, if we are not pure enough to enter into Heaven since Scripture says nothing unclean shall enter, we enter Purgatory.

(1) What has not been defined (correct me if I am wrong) is how that all works. What we do not know is whether Purgatory is a place where we wait (like Heaven or Hell), whether it is a process (like a bath of fire as we go to Heaven). If anyone has anything to contribute regarding this aspect would be appreciated.

(2) Is it also fair enough to say that it has not been defined dogmatically whether this is a direct punishment from God? Logically, Purgatory is a punishment. I can’t see how it could be viewed any other way. Being separated from the Beatific Vision must be painful. How could it not be? But is this something that God places upon us or is this something we place upon ourselves due to the nature of our realization that we are not pure enough to enter? In other words, does God prevent our entry or do we prevent our entry? Perhaps both? Perhaps this “how” has not been defined. Thoughts?

I think you’ve got a pretty good grasp of the subject, at least as far as any human can understand these things, and in your second question you are probably at the point where these things become inscrutable mysteries. I would think that whether you say we bring purgatory upon ourselves or say that God inflicts purgatory upon us, these seem to be two sides of the same coin. If you’ve ever heard the phrase “sin is its own punishment,” it seems that it is very often true – e.g. STDs which come from sexual promiscuity. The way God has organized creation, it seems that when humans commit sin, they often bring a natural kind of punishment upon themselves, but even so, in a certain sense, that can be seen as a divine punishment or a warning, because that is how God has organized the cosmos. Purgatory may be like that.