Purgatory - Eternal Fire (God's Love) or Created Fire (Temporary)?

[Marina14]

I’ve recently been reading a book: Life After Death which outlines the Saints teachings involved in the Council which was rejected by the Orthodox Church but accepted by Uniates and Roman Catholics.

The Orthodox were rejecting what was being said about this novelty of dogmas: Purgatory. The Fathers were trying to understand what it was the Roman Church had recently begun teaching…they made out that Catholics considered it a “temporary fire” - this is rejected by Orthodox because

1. Tradition didn’t teach a temporary fire &
2. Because the after life has always been described by the Church as God’s Love which is described in Sacred Scripture as Fire - either we reject it completely and condemn ourselves eternally or we accept it and become diefied. Fire has 2 qualities about it: Light and Burning/Heat…The Church Fathers understood Hell to be burning experience of that Eternal Fire. This fire is eternal as it is God’s Love which is eternal. Those blessed to be in Heaven experience the Light of that Fire. This Light is eternal as God’s Love is eternal.

My question is: **Do Catholics still claim that Purgatory is a 2nd, Temporary Fire or do they now believe it is an Eternal Fire, but that souls remain in it just temporarily? **

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

I’ve recently been reading a book: Life After Death which outlines the Saints teachings involved in the Council which was rejected by the Orthodox Church but accepted by Uniates and Roman Catholics.

The Orthodox were rejecting what was being said about this novelty of dogmas: Purgatory. The Fathers were trying to understand what it was the Roman Church had recently begun teaching…they made out that Catholics considered it a “temporary fire” - this is rejected by Orthodox because

1. Tradition didn’t teach a temporary fire &
2. Because the after life has always been described by the Church as God’s Love which is described in Sacred Scripture as Fire - either we reject it completely and condemn ourselves eternally or we accept it and become diefied. Fire has 2 qualities about it: Light and Burning/Heat…The Church Fathers understood Hell to be burning experience of that Eternal Fire. This fire is eternal as it is God’s Love which is eternal. Those blessed to be in Heaven experience the Light of that Fire. This Light is eternal as God’s Love is eternal.

My question is: **Do Catholics still claim that Purgatory is a 2nd, Temporary Fire or do they now believe it is an Eternal Fire, but that souls remain in it just temporarily? **

The official teaching of the Catholic Church is:

From the Catechism:

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.(Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000.) The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:(Cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 3:15; ⇒ 1 Pet 1:7.)

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.(St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. ⇒ Mt 12:31.)

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: “Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.”(⇒ 2 Macc 12:46.) From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.(Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.) The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.(St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. ⇒ Job 1:5.)​

I will try to get you the Scriptural and Patristic texts in support for the doctrine Purgatory.

 

[Marina14]

Hello,

The official teaching of the Catholic Church is:

From the Catechism:

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.(Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000.) The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:(Cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 3:15; ⇒ 1 Pet 1:7.)

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.(St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. ⇒ Mt 12:31.)

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: “Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.”(⇒ 2 Macc 12:46.) From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.(Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.) The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.(St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. ⇒ Job 1:5.)​

I will try to get you the Scriptural and Patristic texts in support for the doctrine Purgatory.

This doesn’t answer the question: Do Catholics believe that this is a Temporary Fire or the Eternal Fire of God? Is it the Fire that is temporary or is the temporariness (if that were a word) in the fact that people’s souls are only there for a short time.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

This doesn’t answer the question: Do Catholics believe that this is a Temporary Fire or the Eternal Fire of God? Is it the Fire that is temporary or is the temporariness (if that were a word) in the fact that people’s souls are only there for a short time.

There is no definitive teaching one way or the other. The only thing definitive is that those in Purgatory are not there eternally.

 

[Marina14]

Hello,

There is no definitive teaching one way or the other. The only thing definitive is that those in Purgatory are not there eternally.

At the time of the Council, it was definative that the Fire is a 2nd and temporary fire…which is why the Orthodox rejected it.

I was hoping to learn that Catholics now recognize no other fire other than the Eternal Fire of God’s Love which would mean we Orthodox and you Catholics would be coming closer to unification - so much for that hope!

 

[ForeverAdam]

There is no definitive teaching one way or the other. The only thing definitive is that those in Purgatory are not there eternally.

You believe that purgatory is a place/condition of purification. If our prayers, good works and memorials cause these souls to be purified of their sins, what is the purpose of the punishment of purgatory? Is the punishment just a byproduct of their souls not being in heaven or does it have an additional purifying value? Thanks.

God bless,

Adam

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

At the time of the Council, it was definative that the Fire is a 2nd and temporary fire…which is why the Orthodox rejected it.

I was hoping to learn that Catholics now recognize no other fire other than the Eternal Fire of God’s Love which would mean we Orthodox and you Catholics would be coming closer to unification - so much for that hope!

Do you have a link to the texts from that Council for me to read? I have seen that it is very easy to misunderstand the other side, especially when going from the Greek language to Latin and vice/versa. I could see this as a misunderstand where the Latins said that a soul is in Purgatory temporally and temporarily and that getting mangled in the translations (both lingual and cultural) to be misconstrued by the Greeks. Is that what happened? I don’t know - I haven’t located the full texts of the Council online to be able to analyze them.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

You believe that purgatory is a place/condition of purification. If our prayers, good works and memorials cause these souls to be purified of their sins, what is the purpose of the punishment of purgatory? Is the punishment just a byproduct of their souls not being in heaven or does it have an additional purifying value? Thanks.

God bless,

Adam

Purgatory’s purpose is to purify the soul to make it able to enter Heaven.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Marina, what specific information on Purgatory are you looking for - what it’s purpose is for, Patristic evidence of it, Scriptural evidence of it, etc.?