Purgatory for Children

[marietta]

What is the Roman Catholic Church currently teaching children ages 7, 8, and 9 about Purgatory? I was taught that the age of seven is the “age of reason”, when a child has developed some sense of right and wrong. Because children of this young age are so very impressionable, I’m curious to know whether the teachers in the Catholic elementary schools have dialed back their fearsome images of Purgatory. Or are they still threatening children with eternal flames, even though a seven-year-old can hardly grasp the concept of eternity?

Where can I view an actual lesson plan designed by a genuine Catholic elementary school teacher with regard to this topic?

Thanks.

marietta

 

[tassitus]

. . . I’m curious to know whether the teachers in the Catholic elementary schools have dialed back their fearsome images of Purgatory. Or are they still threatening children with eternal flames, even though a seven-year-old can hardly grasp the concept of eternity?
. . .]

Wow.

What could be “fearsome” about Purgatory? It’s a sure sign of God’s divine mercy.

And what do “eternal flames” have to do with Purgatory? By its very nature, it CANNOT be eternal - it’s Purgatory!

Someone’s bias is showing (besides mine, I mean).

 

[mattkubes]

What could be “fearsome” about Purgatory? It’s a sure sign of God’s divine mercy.

Exactly - I always found it very comforting to know that God will give us the opportunity to be purified before we enter the Beatific Vision.

 

[thistle]

What is the Roman Catholic Church currently teaching children ages 7, 8, and 9 about Purgatory? I was taught that the age of seven is the “age of reason”, when a child has developed some sense of right and wrong. Because children of this young age are so very impressionable, I’m curious to know whether the teachers in the Catholic elementary schools have dialed back their fearsome images of Purgatory. Or are they still threatening children with eternal flames, even though a seven-year-old can hardly grasp the concept of eternity?

Where can I view an actual lesson plan designed by a genuine Catholic elementary school teacher with regard to this topic?

Thanks.

marietta

If I die and find myself in Purgatory I will be happy because it means I have been saved, even though I might need long purification stop there.

 

[Lujack]

If I was to have to teach purgatory at a high school level, I’d compare it to weight-lifting on a football team. In fact, I’ve always conceptualized purgatory as a giant weight room (the human mind can’t comprehend it, but that’s as close as I can come), where you work off your last attachments to sin before getting to heaven. It helps, though, when your high school weight room is in the basement and leaving the weight room is literally going up the stairs.

 

[bilop]

If I was to have to teach purgatory at a high school level, I’d compare it to weight-lifting on a football team. In fact, I’ve always conceptualized purgatory as a giant weight room (the human mind can’t comprehend it, but that’s as close as I can come), where you work off your last attachments to sin before getting to heaven. It helps, though, when your high school weight room is in the basement and leaving the weight room is literally going up the stairs.

Or a sauna, where you sweat the impurities out of your body.

 

[marietta]

The original question pertained specifically to pre-teen children, ages 7, 8 and 9. Once I return home from work this evening I’ll address the Flabbergasted Family regarding their responses to my inquiry.

marietta

 

[tassitus]

If I recall correctly, Volume 1 of the Baltimore Catechism was written at a level for preteens. You might check there first, see what is said about Purgatory. I’ve got a copy around here somewhere…

Unfortunately, I doubt the Batlimore Catechism is being used much these days in Catholic primary schools. Too bad - I wish I had been brought up on it.

 

[brownjt]

Wow.

What could be “fearsome” about Purgatory? It’s a sure sign of God’s divine mercy.

And what do “eternal flames” have to do with Purgatory? By its very nature, it CANNOT be eternal - it’s Purgatory!

Someone’s bias is showing (besides mine, I mean).

But the question is whether the teaching and the alleged “harshness” of it is still being taught to elementary kids and the effect this may have. I would imagine that in order to keep children towards heaven that you must scare them straight, right? Hope not! Jesus approached children differently than this contributor’s experience may have been. After all, we humans seem to take the all or nothing approach. But the concept of purgatory is not all or nothing and is remedial. I imagine most children will be looking “down” on us adults from heaven to us in purgatory. At least, that’s the impression Jesus gave.

 

[marietta]

If I recall correctly, Volume 1 of the Baltimore Catechism was written at a level for preteens. You might check there first, see what is said about Purgatory. I’ve got a copy around here somewhere…

Unfortunately, I doubt the Baltimore Catechism is being used much these days in Catholic primary schools. Too bad - I wish I had been brought up on it.

Volume 1 of the New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism, Part 3, Section 33 (copyright 1964 by Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York) addresses Temporal Punishment and Indulgences, but it does not directly refer to Purgatory. It tells us that in order to be acceptable to God, " . . . we must be willing to suffer for a while . . . " and, “Our Lord cleanses us as a washing machine cleans clothes so that our souls will be entirely clean.”

Do you truly wish you had been brought up on that? Do you think that today’s savvy nine-year-old would swallow anything so banal? I believe kids want to know what the truth of Catholic teachings are. Baltimore Catechism is aimed at young children, and the presentation of the beliefs is innocuous. You, tassitus, exclaim, " Wow. What could be ‘fearsome’ about Purgatory? It’s a sure sign of God’s divine mercy.

“And what do ‘eternal flames’ have to do with Purgatory? By its very nature, it CANNOT be eternal - it’s Purgatory!”

It’s not so much what is fearsome about Purgatory. It’s the way Purgatory is, or was, described to children. The danger is to young minds, which eventually grow into older minds that are forever seared with images of eternal flames - yes, flames that have been burning since the Fall and will continue to burn long after we are all dust. The Church cannot tell us for how long we must suffer in order to be cleansed. In real time that could be 32 seconds or 32 millenia. The soul of Cro-Magnun Man might still be frying in order that he may walk through the gates of Heaven. Screaming; unquenchable thirst; blazing, scorching, scalding, unimaginably excruciating pain . . . etc., etc., ad nauseum. These were but a fraction of the laypersons’ embellishments on Baltimore Catechism that planted in me a seed of resentment which grew into a cold and unwavering disgust for what seemed, and seems, like a desperate effort on the part of the Church to reel me in and manage my “free will” so that I would not have to suffer these agonies in the afterlife.

What cr*p.

It’s not Purgatory. It’s the myth of Purgatory and the brazen willingness to indoctrinate young minds with ideas and images beyond their comprehension just to try to keep little baby feet on the extremely narrow path that is called Catholicism.

And it’s not just Purgatory. So many ideas were offered to little kids through fear mongering, bribery, and unusually cruel punishments just to get across the point that the inaccessible Monolith has the last word, and that Monolith is, for all intents and purposes, the Catholic Church.

Damage? Done.

marietta

 

[mattkubes]

…yes, flames that have been burning since the Fall and will continue to burn long after we are all dust. The Church cannot tell us for how long we must suffer in order to be cleansed. In real time that could be 32 seconds or 32 millenia. The soul of Cro-Magnun Man might still be frying in order that he may walk through the gates of Heaven. Screaming; unquenchable thirst; blazing, scorching, scalding, unimaginably excruciating pain . . . etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Even if this is the way that it was described to you, it wasn’t doing Purgatory justice. The Church has always taught that it is a spiritual state, and the image of fire is used as a reference to purification. And just like Heaven and Hell, it is removed from linear time…we undergo purification until we are purified, and we will willingly go through this out of love for God. The greatest pain of Purgatory, in my opinion, is likely the knowledge that our souls are separated from the Beatific Vision temporarily as we are purged.

Will Purgatory be pleasant? I don’t think so. But this is why the Church has always urged us to pray and fast for the Holy Souls…I guess I see the entire notion of a final purification through a completely different lens though.

“The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.” Are you sure someone wasn’t describing Hell to you…?

 

[marietta]

“spiritual state”. “reference to purification”. “linear time”. “Beatific Vision”. One will find all these terms, and so much more, in the vocabulary of the average seven-year-old.

Not Hell - Purgatory. The only difference? One can eventually escape Purgatory. The only difference. This illustrates my early indoctrination.

marietta

 

[yinekka]

What is the Roman Catholic Church currently teaching children ages 7, 8, and 9 about Purgatory?

Marietta, the best way to find an answer to your question is to have a look at some textbooks used for that age child.

If you wish to see what the Baltimore Catechism taught this age child just enter Baltimore Catechism Vol 1 in Google and it should come up.

*To Know, Love and Worship *is a textbook series used in some dioceses in Australia. An overview of the series is available online.

 

[mattkubes]

“spiritual state”. “reference to purification”. “linear time”. “Beatific Vision”. One will find all these terms, and so much more, in the vocabulary of the average seven-year-old.

I’m not sure if that was sarcasm (I’m never sure on forums), but it could easily be condensed down for kids. That’s not to real issue.

Not Hell - Purgatory. The only difference? One can eventually escape Purgatory. The only difference. This illustrates my early indoctrination.

The pain is nothing that He didn’t experience during His Passion. We can’t imagine what He felt as His children, children whom He still loves infinitely, tortured and killed Him. We’ll never have to go through anything even remotely similar to that, thank God.

I’m sorry that’s the way you were introduced to Purgatory, but it is not the way that the Church presents it. Purgatory is merciful and liberating - and yes, we may suffer as we are purged from our sinful desires. But again, this is why the Church offers us indulgences in so many simple ways and asks us to obtain them for the faithful departed. Spend a half hour reading the Bible. Say the rosary in a group. These hardly seem like activities that the Church is trying to control our lives with.

It sounds like some people in the Church may have missed the mark a bit when you were being catechised. But place the blame where it is deserved.

I’ll keep you in my prayers, please keep me in yours. Merry Christmas

 

[brownjt]

I’m not sure if that was sarcasm (I’m never sure on forums), but it could easily be condensed down for kids. That’s not to real issue.

The pain is nothing that He didn’t experience during His Passion. We can’t imagine what He felt as His children, children whom He still loves infinitely, tortured and killed Him. We’ll never have to go through anything even remotely similar to that, thank God.

I’m sorry that’s the way you were introduced to Purgatory, but it is not the way that the Church presents it. Purgatory is merciful and liberating - and yes, we may suffer as we are purged from our sinful desires. But again, this is why the Church offers us indulgences in so many simple ways and asks us to obtain them for the faithful departed. Spend a half hour reading the Bible. Say the rosary in a group. These hardly seem like activities that the Church is trying to control our lives with.

It sounds like some people in the Church may have missed the mark a bit when you were being catechised. But place the blame where it is deserved.

I’ll keep you in my prayers, please keep me in yours. Merry Christmas

I guess that is why in another thread a catholic asked why catholics are so depressed.

I have to say that in the many catholic forums in this site, many catholics profess to say that protestants have so many denominations, so many wrong beliefs, that we erred in the split, etc,. etc.

I see just as many divergent views from catholic laymen - in fact probably as a a result of catholic church teaching - that profess differnt opinions to include here on purgatory.

I also have confirmed in my mind that (protestants told me this before) that some catholics seem to be pre-occupied with the sufferings of Christ rather that the result.

We will never have to face the “hell” he went through as long we believ and follow Him. Yes, his chidren made Him suffer and we were ignorant. Now we are not and must respond to His call.

Your explanations of purgatory seem to be as narrow as some fundamentalists views.

 

[eelpis]

Children can sin when they have reached the age of reason, therefore they can end up both in purgatory and in hell.

 

[mattkubes]

I see just as many divergent views from catholic laymen - in fact probably as a a result of catholic church teaching - that profess differnt opinions to include here on purgatory.

The confusion is much more likely to have been caused by a lack of catechesis in recent decades, focusing solely on community and a feel-good Gospel. Church teaching remains fairly clear on this doctrine.

Your explanations of purgatory seem to be as narrow as some fundamentalists views.

It’s not my view, it is the view presented in the Catechism. If you have another way of explaining Purgatory, and I’m being sincere, please do so! I find nothing depressing about the Church’s teaching, but you made some fairly broad statements without providing much substance.

 

[mattkubes]

I also have confirmed in my mind that (protestants told me this before) that some catholics seem to be pre-occupied with the sufferings of Christ rather that the result.

As an aside, I brought up Christ’s suffering solely because the OP seemed to worry about the level of suffering we might have to go through in order to be purified. The description of purgatory she was given seemed to be too extreme (almost Hell-like), but I thought it was important that we remember that He went through suffering too. There was no intention on my part to dwell on the matter, even though I don’t think it’s possible to over-emphasise what He went through It just seemed topical to me!

God Bless.

 

[brownjt]

The confusion is much more likely to have been caused by a lack of catechesis in recent decades, focusing solely on community and a feel-good Gospel. Church teaching remains fairly clear on this doctrine.

It’s not my view, it is the view presented in the Catechism. If you have another way of explaining Purgatory, and I’m being sincere, please do so! I find nothing depressing about the Church’s teaching, but you made some fairly broad statements without providing much substance.

What is a “feel-good” gospel? Is that like the one Joel Osteen preaches. He focuses on the positive. He wins many converts I guess because he says that God is a good God and wants us to be the same. The power of positive thinking. I would like to see alittle more charismatic preaching from the Gospel in the catholic churches as well. The concept of purgatory is not a protestant concept, but they do not address the natural question of what happens when we fall - how does God address that - for believers. Even the Dalai Lama says that the soul must be ready at the time of death to depart the body.

 

[marietta]

Children can sin when they have reached the age of reason, therefore they can end up both in purgatory and in hell.

This theory does not even come close to addressing the questions put forth in the opening of this thread.

yinekka writes:

“If you wish to see what the Baltimore Catechism taught this age child just enter Baltimore Catechism Vol 1 in Google and it should come up”. I guess you missed my post # 10 in which I described the Baltimore Catechism rendition of Purgatory for Children.

mattkubes writes:

“The confusion is much more likely to have been caused by a lack of catechesis in recent decades, focusing solely on community and a feel-good Gospel. Church teaching remains ****fairly clear on this doctrine.” Didn’t the whole formation of the vague and veiled references to purification come from Gregory the Great? Until he honed the images, the Church was not clear on this “doctrine” - it was not even “fairly clear on this doctrine”.

Consider the impact of “poor catechesis” - lives and souls lost and damaged, many never to return to Catholicism, never to trust “doctrine”, never to even have a remote desire for “redemption” because the terms, as laid out by laypersons with good intentions, were too harsh.

I have no intention of trying to dismantle faulty teachings that have both shaped me and impaired me for fifty years. I choose to keep whatever remnants of good remain and leave the rest. If Purgatory exists I suppose I will do my time. I’ll be sure to take my fire-retardant pajamas.

marietta