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brgregmack
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What are all of the OT references for purgatory that would still be in a protestant Bible?
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Over at ScriptureCatholic.com he has:*Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.
Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God’s purification of the righteous at their death.
Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.
Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.*You might want to double check the context for clarity. You might also delve into the whole OT idea of sin as a “weight” or a “debt” that has a dimension that needs to be paid or lifted off oneself. Particularly the figure of debt remains in the NT. If you like MP3’s, there is a good interview with Dr. Gary Anderson on these attributes of sin from Jan. 2010 Kresta in the Afternoon radio show. Here is MP3.
Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God’s purification of the righteous at their death.
Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.
Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.*You might want to double check the context for clarity. You might also delve into the whole OT idea of sin as a “weight” or a “debt” that has a dimension that needs to be paid or lifted off oneself. Particularly the figure of debt remains in the NT. If you like MP3’s, there is a good interview with Dr. Gary Anderson on these attributes of sin from Jan. 2010 Kresta in the Afternoon radio show. Here is MP3.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I don’t know how the Old Testament can refer to Purgatory when it did not exist back then. Purgatory is a process of purification for souls destined for heaven. In the Old Testament, souls cannot enter heaven. Only after the death of Jesus was heaven opened up again.
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TeenageConvert
Guest
Isaiah 7:6-7 is used as one…
But yeah maybe ConstantineTG and I are missing something because it doesn’t make sense to me if they just went to Limbo than why would they be purged of the affects of their sin’s?
But yeah maybe ConstantineTG and I are missing something because it doesn’t make sense to me if they just went to Limbo than why would they be purged of the affects of their sin’s?
T
Todd_Easton
Guest
Of course, there is 2 Maccabees 12:40-46, where the Jews offered prayers and sacrifices for the dead that their sins might be forgiven.
Things probably worked like this…
Perfect OT saints:
Death —> Skip Purgatory —> Wait in Limbo until Christ’s death —> Heaven.
Imperfect OT saints:
Death —> Made perfect in Purgatory —> Wait in Limbo until Christ’s death —> Heaven.
Perfect NT saints:
Death —> Skip Purgatory —> Heaven.
Imperfect NT saints:
Death —> Made perfect in Purgatory —> Heaven.
Things probably worked like this…
Perfect OT saints:
Death —> Skip Purgatory —> Wait in Limbo until Christ’s death —> Heaven.
Imperfect OT saints:
Death —> Made perfect in Purgatory —> Wait in Limbo until Christ’s death —> Heaven.
Perfect NT saints:
Death —> Skip Purgatory —> Heaven.
Imperfect NT saints:
Death —> Made perfect in Purgatory —> Heaven.
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MarcoPolo
Guest
I agree with Todd. Since there is no salvation outside of Christ and since nothing unclean can enter heaven, even those in the OT will need purification if they were to enter heaven. As 2 Maccabees does show, prayers to loosen one who has died from their sins could be effected the way Todd showed, or even in advance of the Messiah, because God can apply those prayers throughout time. So even if those souls didn’t go to purgatory until Christ rose, those old prayers in 200 B.C. would still apply to those souls.
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brgregmack
Guest
Link doesn’t work. could you give me a direct link???Over at ScriptureCatholic.com he has:*Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.
Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God’s purification of the righteous at their death.
Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.
Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.*You might want to double check the context for clarity. You might also delve into the whole OT idea of sin as a “weight” or a “debt” that has a dimension that needs to be paid or lifted off oneself. Particularly the figure of debt remains in the NT. If you like MP3’s, there is a good interview with Dr. Gary Anderson on these attributes of sin from Jan. 2010 Kresta in the Afternoon radio show. Here is MP3.
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