Purgatory inverted - prep for hell

[Mijoy2]

Yes - This is what I am trying to get at. It would seem they must lose their capacity to love others or perhaps even themselves.

Looks like Aquinas address this from the posts provided by AveOTheotokos.

 

[CRV]

IN other words we (or at least I) will be shadows of our former self.

Actually I think in heaven we will be more ourselves - as we are not perfected, think of Jesus’ transfiguration.

They cry when someone is hurt,

feelings/emotions/sympathy for others does not equal love one another

they help little old ladies cross the street.

lovely act of kindness

yet just helped a hungry soul to a meal,

act of charity, corporal work of mercy - All worthy acts of charity which we should do and most of us do, do. (Edited to add link -Alms and Almsgiving)

Love (Theological Virtue) scroll down to about half way down the page to Love of Man then it mentionsLove of Neighbour.
Charity and Charities

 

[PetraG]

Yes - This is what I am trying to get at. It would seem they must lose their capacity to love others or perhaps even themselves.

Do you think there is any capacity to love yourself except as you love God and neighbor? Think about the times you’ve had recognition of your offenses against God and neighbor–the “love” for yourself that allowed that to happen wasn’t love at all. It was a form of blindness, instead.

As for those who seem to die in mortal sin, we know from what the Catechism says about suicide that “By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance.” (CCC 2283) Whatever we don’t know about the Final Judgment, we do know this: It will not lack love, it will not lack mercy, and it will not lack justice. We might think, “ah, I love God so much, except for this one sin I won’t let go of,” but really that is like saying, “ah, I do fly, but I also hold on to this tree.” No, that confuses some wing-flapping while holding on to the tree for actual flying. They’re two totally different things.

 

[Dan_Defender]

No inhabitants of hell will be caring/ loving/ lovingly enjoying any other inhabitants of hell.
Where this doesn’t seem to be reconcilable is that very few or any people in this world are that crass (exceptions of course).

Sorry but this statement strikes me as naive. I’ve known plenty of people who are crafty and good at pretending to care, but in their actions, only seek to advance themselves at any expense. People who will not hesitate on stepping on others to get ahead, who scheme and manipulate and hurt. They are just good at covering up what they do.

 

[PetraG]

Sorry but this statement strikes me as naive. I’ve known plenty of people who are crafty and good at pretending to care, but in their actions, only seek to advance themselves at any expense. People who will not hesitate on stepping on others to get ahead, who scheme and manipulate and hurt. They are just good at covering up what they do.

The estimates I have seen run as high as 1 in 20 in the US (as being without a working emotional conscience or without an intellectual conscience that puts boundaries on their behavior or both).
There are people so cold-hearted (whether by their fault or the fault of their biological nature, I cannot say) that they cannot feel and do not believe that anybody really cares about anyone else, and that everyone is either lying or just incredibly and stupidly gullible.

 

[CRV]

Focusing on the Four Last Things , scroll down to the paragraph that begins:- " There is, however, one very valid question about the Christian teaching on Hell: How can it be reconciled with our equally strong doctrine of a merciful God."

The Population of Hell by Avery Cardinal Dulles, wherein he links what he says to various Scripture passages.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Mijoy2:

No inhabitants of hell will be caring/ loving/ lovingly enjoying any other inhabitants of hell.
Where this doesn’t seem to be reconcilable is that very few or any people in this world are that crass (exceptions of course).

Sorry but this statement strikes me as naive. I’ve known plenty of people who are crafty and good at pretending to care, but in their actions, only seek to advance themselves at any expense. People who will not hesitate on stepping on others to get ahead, who scheme and manipulate and hurt. They are just good at covering up what they do.

The ultimate example being the Pharisees that Jesus addressed often in his teaching who already in their life time had no capacity to love. They are so blinded by their own ‘righteousness’ and judgement of others.

I think the Pharisees stand out in Scripture as the very clear example of who and what the eternally damned may behave like.

 

[PetraG]

Focusing on the Four Last Things , scroll down to the paragraph that begins:- " There is, however, one very valid question about the Christian teaching on Hell: How can it be reconciled with our equally strong doctrine of a merciful God."

The Population of Hell by Avery Cardinal Dulles, wherein he links what he says to various Scripture passages.

Yes. I think of it this way: if you tell a small child that a little child can die but that it almost never happens, that child will very often worry a lot, all the same. Children aren’t good at accessing risk. Is it not possible, though, that we as adults are also bad at accessing risk, but all too often in the opposite direction? Based on perils that we know about, wouldn’t we say this is certainly true?

Considering the seriousness of what is to be lost, how can we know how many Our Lord meant when he said of the narrow way “few are those who find it”? I don’t see why the One willing to die to save even one, the Good Shepherd who would leave the 99 in search of the one, would think, “oh, half saved, that’s pretty good. That’s a lot.” No, not when you thirst for every last one, it is not. Not when you thirst for every one to realize the blessings of grace as soon as possible, it is not. Even most would be too few. Even a short time separated from the love of God is too long.

If we knew what we risk and what we are refusing even now, what would be an “acceptable” level of sin? There wouldn’t be any. We are lukewarm because we are blind to what we refuse. Of course the descriptions of what is at stake are extreme. We also know this, though: the commandment is not to be afraid. The commandment is to love, and perfect love casts out all fear.

 

[CRV]

Considering the seriousness of what is to be lost, how can we know how many Our Lord meant when he said of the narrow way “few are those who find it”? I don’t see why the One willing to die to save even one, the Good Shepherd who would leave the 99 in search of the one, would think, “oh, half saved, that’s pretty good. That’s a lot.” No, not when you thirst for every last one, it is not. Not when you thirst for every one to realize the blessings of grace as soon as possible, it is not. Even most would be too few.

We know God wants all to be saved, e.g. Go forth and make disciples of all nations.

But we also know God loves us so much he will not override our freewill. Which is necessary for mortal sin - Full consent of the will. Thus why one mortal sin is our choice - knowing it is grave matter, knowing it is against God and deliberately and willfully choosing this action (full knowledge), and then willfully doing it. Our choice as we prefer a lessor good to our greatest good ie God.
But we also know that a soul immediately goes to hell upon its particular judgement in the case of unrepented mortal sin.

what would be an “acceptable” level of sin?

There wouldn’t be any.

All sin is offensive to God. There is no level of “acceptable” sin as you say. We humans I think tend to think venial sins are of no great consequence, forgetting that all sin is offensive to God, and if we loved him we would do out utmost to not commit any sin. 1 John 5:17 "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly. "

the commandment is not to be afraid.

Yes, “Jesus I trust in Thee.” We are to do our best, go to the Sacrament of Confession when we fall, get up after we fall ie persevere, and trust that God will sanctify us and bring us to everlasting life with him (but of course we have to do our part in co-operating with His grace).

The commandment is to love, and perfect love casts out all fear.

Love of God does cast out all fear. There are various Saints who have said as much.

 

[PetraG]

Yes, exactly. We should not despair of those who may seem to us to have died without salutory repentance, but we should not presume ourselves to be given unlimited chances. The plain meaning of the Gospels is both that we cannot judge anyone else and yet also that unlimited chances aren’t guaranteed. We should teach ourselves and others to fear sin and to reject Satan and all his empty promises–for we know even those who are saved would surely take back every sin, even the slightest one!!–but to love God and to have real hope in God’s mercy and thirst and power to save us for eternal life.

I don’t think it is a good idea to make any rationalizations that are in opposition to the plain meaning of the Gospels. It is of course reasonable to assume we are bad ones to ask about the scope of things beyond our understanding, but we can move forward as we have been taught.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Jesus spoke of people who will say (I am paraphrasing here) “Wait a minute, I helped little old ladies cross the street and I loved my neighbor. I was a ‘good person’!”

Yet, because He knows their innermost thoughts, He will say “depart from me. I never knew you. Enter what you you know you actually chose, the place that was prepared not for humans but for fallen angels.”

 

[Wesrock]

Without God’s grace we can never choose the good, and to be in Hell is to be separated from God’s grace. We don’t need any prep for Hell.