Purgatory questions only

[Rightlydivide]

What exactly is purgatory?
Is it the Catholic belief that most properly baptized (Trinitarian formula by immersion) Christians go to Purgatory if they are not Catholic?
How can someone else’s prayers change the eternal fate of someone? Wouldn’t they be responsible for themselves(ie their faith or works as the case may be) despite the best wishes or prayers of others?
On a side note, what do Catholics believe will send a person to hell? Please be specific and brief if possible.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

What exactly is purgatory? the scriptural place where the temporal effects of mortal sin and any venial sins are purged “saved as through fire” before entrance to heaven
Is it the Catholic belief that most properly baptized (Trinitarian formula by immersion) Christians go to Purgatory if they are not Catholic? not 'because they are not Catholic, plenty of Catholics go to purgatory before heaven too. a protestant in a state of grace goes to heaven directly and doesn’t get sent to purgatory just because they aren’t Catholic
How can someone else’s prayers change the eternal fate of someone? Wouldn’t they be responsible for themselves(ie their faith or works as the case may be) despite the best wishes or prayers of others? i think you might be misunderstanding here. anyone in purgatory is always going ultimately to heaven so there is no changing an eternal fate.
On a side note, what do Catholics believe will send a person to hell? Please be specific and brief if possible.unrepented mortal sin which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
__________________

 

[agent_grey]

What exactly is purgatory?
Is it the Catholic belief that most properly baptized (Trinitarian formula by immersion) Christians go to Purgatory if they are not Catholic?
How can someone else’s prayers change the eternal fate of someone? Wouldn’t they be responsible for themselves(ie their faith or works as the case may be) despite the best wishes or prayers of others?
On a side note, what do Catholics believe will send a person to hell? Please be specific and brief if possible.

Baptism does not require a priest. We knowm this cause John baptised Christ and was no priest.

When we die our works are tried by fire. Those that are found wanting can be saved as one through the flames. When a person enters this fire they are asured of heavan but what they are not assured of is there works. Non of us are assured of our works. We work out our salvation with fear and trembling by faith.

The protestant comes into dangerouse territory when he reaches the age of reason and is taught the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that so many protestant religions teach. If he is of God he will not accept these blasphemous beliefs if he is not of God he will. A prime example is the blasphemouse teachings of the SDA. They teach that we will be damned if we worship God at the wrong times. Him who accepts these beliefs is damned. Him who accepts there teaching on Sabbath observance but does not bow to there Sabbath accusations has done well. The one whom accepts this blasphemy goes straight to hell the one whom rejects it may be saved as one through the flames.

Our ultimate destiny is determined by our origins. Our path is determined by our choice.

 

[GrahamAPhone]

Baptism does not require a priest. We knowm this cause John baptised Christ and was no priest.

the baptism john the baptist offered was not the same baptism as our baptism

 

[Techno2000]

What exactly is purgatory?
Is it the Catholic belief that most properly baptized (Trinitarian formula by immersion) Christians go to Purgatory if they are not Catholic?
How can someone else’s prayers change the eternal fate of someone? Wouldn’t they be responsible for themselves(ie their faith or works as the case may be) despite the best wishes or prayers of others?
On a side note, what do Catholics believe will send a person to hell? Please be specific and brief if possible.

cfpeople.org/apologetics/page51a013.html
my.homewithgod.com/gertrude/purgatory/
trumpetersmission.com/messages_purgatory.php

 

[MarcoPolo]

In very lay terms, Purgatory is this. Even the justified still have sinful tendencies, weakness toward sin, selfish tendencies. These “imperfections” in a person will be removed at death prior to full union with God. Why—because God is incompatible with even the smallest imperfection. A soul in heaven is completely and perfectly loving and united with God in a way that earth-faring humans are rarely. This purification is called Purgatory.

If you have any other questions or common objections such as Heb 10:14 or what is temporal punishment, feel free to ask.

 

[Randy_Carson]

What exactly is purgatory?
Is it the Catholic belief that most properly baptized (Trinitarian formula by immersion) Christians go to Purgatory if they are not Catholic?
How can someone else’s prayers change the eternal fate of someone? Wouldn’t they be responsible for themselves(ie their faith or works as the case may be) despite the best wishes or prayers of others?
On a side note, what do Catholics believe will send a person to hell? Please be specific and brief if possible.

What Purgatory is not

• Purgatory is not a second chance.
• Purgatory is not a place where the soul can do anything to cleans himself; all cleansing is done by God alone.
• Purgatory is not a “third option” for people who are “too good” for heaven but “too bad” for heaven; there are only two destinations for those who have died: heaven or hell.

What Purgatory is

• Catechism of the Catholic Church

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

[1031](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1031.htm’) The Church gives the name *Purgatory *to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

[1032](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1032.htm’) This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

 

[Karmartia]

I believe that by praying for the souls in Purgatory we may be able to hasten their entrance into Heaven. Our Lord instructed us that whatever we asked of the Father would be granted us because of our faith, so long as it is the Father’s will. When a soul enters Purgatory it is already God’s will that they eventually enter into His presence, but who other than God can determine how long the purification may take? It may be a minute or a thousand years. By asking in faith that our beloved brothers and sister in Christ enter as swiftly as possible into Heaven seems to me to be in keeping with God’s will.

 

[Scoobyshme]

What exactly is purgatory?

Purgatory is a state where the soul is purified and made ready for heaven. Remember, Scripture says that no one who is not perfectly pure will enter Heaven. Most people have some attachment to sin, even if they die in the state of grace. Here’s an example of “attachment to sin.” A young man and woman are at the altar, getting married. It comes time for the “I do’s” and the young man immediately responds with “I do.” The young woman, however, is distracted, looking out into space like she’s not there. After a gentle nudge, she comes back to the present situation and says, “Oh, yeah. I do.” Later, the new husband asks her what was up then and she says, “Oh, I’m your wife forever, and I love you, but at that moment, I just couldn’t help thinking about my previous boy friend and how great he and I were together and how much I love him. Well, that didn’t work out, so I’m your wife now and I’ll love you forever.” How would that young man feel? Well, that’s how God feels when we have some internal attachment to sin (usually some pet sin of ours). He wants our total loyalty and faithfulness, inside and out.

Is it the Catholic belief that most properly baptized (Trinitarian formula by immersion) Christians go to Purgatory if they are not Catholic? The Church usually refrains from saying who went to hell or purgatory. It’s not about being Catholic or not, it’s about dying in the state of grace and having some attachment to sin, even forgiven sin. (See above explaination of “attachment to sin.”

How can someone else’s prayers change the eternal fate of someone? They can’t. Once one dies, one is immediately judged by Jesus Christ and sent to hell or heaven (with a possible side trip to Purgatory on the way to Heaven). Final destinations (eternal fate) are either heaven or hell.

Wouldn’t they be responsible for themselves(ie their faith or works as the case may be) despite the best wishes or prayers of others? That’s one of the big difference between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians. We believe that we are members of the Mystical Body of Christ, the Communion of Saints. We are our brother’s keeper, so to speak. It’s not “Me and God” like it seems to be in Protestantism, but “We and God.” The Communion of Saints consist of those on earth who have been baptized, those in Purgatory, and those in Heaven. Jesus said that He is the Vine and we are the branches. Branches don’t get separated by earthly death. In fact, if we make it to heaven, we are even more united with Christ, the Vine, than on earth.

On a side note, what do Catholics believe will send a person to hell? Please be specific and brief if possible. Dying with one or more unrepented mortal sins. (Is that brief enough? )

You might find the free audio talks from the following website interesting:

alabamacatholicresources.com

 

[Thing]

How can someone else’s prayers change the eternal fate of someone? Wouldn’t they be responsible for themselves(ie their faith or works as the case may be) despite the best wishes or prayers of others?
.

Changing ‘eternal fate’ in your post to mean ones duration or suffering in purgatory.

How do you, or anyone else for that matter, know that your prayer for someone is not also part of Gods plan for their salvation. As the Apostles went out and preached and sent others out to preach; so this human action was part of Gods plan for the salvation of countless millions of people who heard their preaching.

Yes, everyone is ultimately responsible for themselves, but, ones fate is not an inevitable thing to resign oneself to hopelessly. Abraham prayed to the Lord to spare the city for the sake of ten just men; Jesus prayed to the Father for St. Peter when satan asked to sift Peter like wheat. St. Paul asked for prayers for himself and for others.

Hearing and responding to the Gospels includes in that new life a function called ‘praying’. We are asked to pray constantly; whatever we ask for…

Prayers for the souls in purgatory can help them. They are not ‘magicing’ people out of purgatory, though. Only God knows those souls in purgatory and their suffering there, and the prayers of Christians for those souls are prayers to God asking for help for those who may benefit.

 

[06convert]

Purgatory is more like a state of being rather than a place. It’s a cleansing process, not a place like heaven or hell.

 

[Odell]

Technically heaven and hell is not a place either but a state. A place has boundaries a beginning and end but heaven is eternity

Purgatory is more like a state of being rather than a place. It’s a cleansing process, not a place like heaven or hell.

 

[Odell]

One more thing there is a difference in temporal punishment and eternal punishment both are very biblical. You want in a later post I will post some on temporal punishment I’m sure your well familiar with eternal punishment since that’s mostly what the bible talks about. As others have said we can’t change someone’s eternal punishment 1 Jn says there is sin unto death that we shall not pray for. Well that’s because we can do nothing for them. But sin not unto death we can pray for. We have all thorough out scripture peoples temporal punishment being lessened do to another’s prayer we have had entire cities that have been saved do to one mans righteousness. And here we are on the subject of salvation. There is eternal and temporal salvation entire cities where saved but the righteous man did not save them eternally but temporal. Moses saved men but it was temporal salvation. We can’t assume every time salvation is mentioned it is referring to eternal salvation. Let’s talk the verse where Mary says I rejoice in God my savior. I don’t have the verse handy but read the verse God didn’t just save her from eternally but he saved her from temporal punishment. In fact mary is the most saved because she didn’t sin. I know you didn’t want to talk about all this but hope it helps with purgatory.

 

[brb2]

Baptism does not require a priest. We knowm this cause John baptised Christ and was no priest.

.

John … was ‘more than a prophet’. He was certainly a priest of the most high.
Being either Elijah … or his equivalent.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Technically heaven and hell is not a place either but a state. A place has boundaries a beginning and end but heaven is eternity

The glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary are IN Heaven. It is definitely a place. Their bodies are real, just like ours, just glorified. Remember Jesus ate with the Apostles after His Resurrection. At the Last Judgment, and the resurrection of the body, all of the saved will be taken with Jesus to Heaven, the place.

 

[Odell]

Well I really don’t like saying its not a place. It is but not as we know it has no begging end no boundaries and so. The argument that purgatory technically isn’t a place can be applied to heaven as well. That’s all I was trying to point out. Its more of a state of being

The glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary are IN Heaven. It is definitely a place. Their bodies are real, just like ours, just glorified. Remember Jesus ate with the Apostles after His Resurrection. At the Last Judgment, and the resurrection of the body, all of the saved will be taken with Jesus to Heaven, the place.

 

[Thing]

Well I really don’t like saying its not a place. It is but not as we know it has no begging end no boundaries and so. The argument that purgatory technically isn’t a place can be applied to heaven as well. That’s all I was trying to point out. Its more of a state of being

Like California.

 

[Odell]

Like California.

now that’s funny

 

[happilycatholic]

You might find the free audio talks from the following website interesting:

alabamacatholicresources.com

Hello Scoobyshme!

I love your insight here:

*“That’s one of the big difference between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians. We believe that we are members of the Mystical Body of Christ, the Communion of Saints. We are our brother’s keeper, so to speak. It’s not “Me and God” like it seems to be in Protestantism, but “We and God.” The Communion of Saints consist of those on earth who have been baptized, those in Purgatory, and those in Heaven. Jesus said that He is the Vine and we are the branches. Branches don’t get separated by earthly death. In fact, if we make it to heaven, we are even more united with Christ, the Vine, than on earth.”
*

This absolutely sums up Jesus’ intent with regard to us as His people. We are not saved as ‘persons’ but as ‘people’.

Amen I say!!!

Blessings,

HC

 

[Scoobyshme]

Hello Scoobyshme!

I love your insight here:

**

This absolutely sums up Jesus’ intent with regard to us as His people. We are not saved as ‘persons’ but as ‘people’.

Amen I say!!!

Blessings,

HC

HC, thanks. I once heard that one of the ways to tell real Catholic hymns from Protestant ones was to listen for the “We, Us, Our” vs the “I, Me, My.” That’s why I’ve always had a problem singing “Amazing Grace” at Mass. It’s okay otherwise, if that’s someone’s cup of tea, but I think we should reflect Catholic theology at Mass. Amazing Grace has the words “I was lost” and “I was found.”

On a side note, I was listening to a good Catholic talk the other day where the speaker was highlighting the difference between theology and science. He said theology is the study of the relationships of persons (God and us). Science is the study of the relationship of objects.

God bless! Gotta get ready for Mass tonight. Holy Day of Obligation and all that, you know? I love it! We Catholics have it SO good, but so few in our country appreciate it.