Purgatory Quiz

[MarcoPolo]

Identify the fake verse in this passage.

Luke 19:2-10*

2 Now a man there named Zacchaeus, who was a chief tax collector and also a wealthy man, 3 was seeking to see who Jesus was; but he could not see him because of the crowd, for he was short in stature. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore tree in order to see Jesus, who was about to pass that way. 5 When he reached the place, Jesus looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down quickly, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 And he came down quickly and received him with joy. 7 When they all saw this, they began to grumble, saying, “He has gone to stay at the house of a sinner.” 8 But Zacchaeus stood there and said to the Lord, “Behold, half of my possessions, Lord, I shall give to the poor, and if I have extorted anything from anyone I shall repay it four times over.” 9 And Jesus said to him, “Since you have already ‘received’ me as your savior, you do not need to repay the last penny. 10 For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what was lost.”​

*

 

[justinthemartyr]

vs 9

 

[blossom02]

:clapping:

 

[rpp]

I am not sure if the Faith-Alone, folks get it.

 

[Steve40]

Identify the fake verse in this passage.

Luke 19:2-10*

"Since you have already ‘received’ me as your savior, you do not need to repay the last penny. "​

*

This part of the quote is incorrect. Jesus never stopped Zacchaeus from doing penence.

 

[MarcoPolo]

You guys are too good!!!

 

[bengal_fan]

I am not sure if the Faith-Alone, folks get it.

maybe that’s because you don’t understand the faith alone argument.

 

[bengal_fan]

it is always grace alone attained by faith alone. that faith results in works. it what luther said and i think the passage quoted is in support of this view as opposed to our works accomplishing any part of our salvation. they are a result of it and help to perfect our relationship with God.

 

[bengal_fan]

it is always grace alone attained by faith alone. that faith results in works. it what luther said and i think the passage quoted is in support of this view as opposed to our works accomplishing any part of our salvation. they are a result of it and help to perfect our relationship with God.

 

[rpp]

maybe that’s because you don’t understand the faith alone argument.

Being both a former Baptist and a former atheist, that would be highly unlikely.

And thank you for once again proving my point. I must say, you are particularly good at helping do that in general. I do appreciate that about you. There is nothing quite like having someone come in and state or defend the error I am trying to describe that helps to exemplify the various points I try to make.

 

[bengal_fan]

Being both a former Baptist and a former atheist, that would be highly unlikely.

And thank you for once again proving my point. I must say, you are particularly good at helping do that in general. I do appreciate that about you. There is nothing quite like having someone come in and state or defend the error I am trying to describe that helps to exemplify the various points I try to make.

many people don’t know the theology of the church they ascribe to so it isn’t that unlikely. look at how many uncatechized or poorly cathechized catholics are out there.

not sure how i proved any point. i was simply stating what was meant by faith alone. it is consistent with augustine’s view as he stated it when writing against pelagius. it is what luther said as well. it is also, what many believe, the bible says.

 

[bengal_fan]

oh, and just like luther, c.s. lewis, and many other protestants, i believe in purgatory. i just do not believe it is a punishment for our sins. i believe it is a cleansing of the stain of this world and our sinful nature. there is a big difference. one suggests that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient. the other says that it was but that we still live in a fallen world and must be made into what can enter into God’s presence.

 

[MarcoPolo]

i believe it is a cleansing of the stain of this world and our sinful nature. there is a big difference. one suggests that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient.

Your view of Purgatory IS the Catholic view. CCC# 1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

CCC# 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the electOr here’s how Pope Benedict XVI (then Cardinal Ratzinger) put it:[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God…Like you insinuated, any stain of sin is incompatible with heaven.

 

[bengal_fan]

Your view of Purgatory IS the Catholic view. CCC# 1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

CCC# 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the electOr here’s how Pope Benedict XVI (then Cardinal Ratzinger) put it:[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God…Like you insinuated, any stain of sin is incompatible with heaven.

then why do i hear catholics (many on this board) equate it with punishment or a time of paying for the sins that we didn’t confess? if it is us being punished for our sins, it insinuates Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. if we aren’t punished in purgatory, then why do many catholics believe it and teach it?

if what you say is the view of the church, then i wholeheartedly agree with it!

 

[quasimodo]

then why do i hear catholics (many on this board) equate it with punishment or a time of paying for the sins that we didn’t confess? if it is us being punished for our sins, it insinuates Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. if we aren’t punished in purgatory, then why do many catholics believe it and teach it?

if what you say is the view of the church, then i wholeheartedly agree with it!

1. nothing unclean will enter heaven.
2. If a person dies having rejected God (i.e. in mortal sin) they are toast, so to speak.
3. but there is sin that is not mortal.
4. if we die still attached to that kind of sin and guilty of it, we must be purged of our attachment to it - We must be purified.
5. perhaps, the person died forgiven of the deadly sin but with some attachment to it - they must be purged (purified) of that attachment, too.
6. purgatory is that place of purification and it will not be pleasant to have our attachments stripped away from us because we cling to them so tight. If you don’t like to think of it as “punishment,” that’s fine.

When we die we don’t suddenly become someone else. How heavenly will heaven be if it is filled with people like you and me (be honest, now). For most of us, it it is not easy to change ourselves. It requires hard work, prayer, and sacrifice. Purgatory is where that hard work takes place. Again, if you don’t like to think of it as “punishment,” that’s fine.

As far as time in purgatory - there is no teaching on this. The idea of purgatory and an amount of time comes from early church disciplines that are no longer in effect.

At least that’s what i think off the top of my head. I haven’t really studied it much.

 

[bklynbrat]

then why do i hear catholics (many on this board) equate it with punishment or a time of paying for the sins that we didn’t confess? if it is us being punished for our sins, it insinuates Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. if we aren’t punished in purgatory, then why do many catholics believe it and teach it?

if what you say is the view of the church, then i wholeheartedly agree with it!

Last year when I came back to the Church, at my local parish, they had meetings for those of us that were thinking about coming back. It was kind of like a refresher course. Lots of Q & A.

Anyway someone asked about Purgatory, & here’s what our priest said about it.

Picture yourself as a perfect piece of wood. Every time you sin a nail is hammered into the wood. You repent, the nails are taken out.

But you’re no longer perfect though, because the nails left holes.

Purgatory repairs the holes so we become that perfect piece of wood again.

I thought that was a very simple analogy.

God Bless

 

[MarcoPolo]

then why do i hear catholics (many on this board) equate it with punishment or a time of paying for the sins that we didn’t confess? if it is us being punished for our sins, it insinuates Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. if we aren’t punished in purgatory, then why do many catholics believe it and teach it?

if what you say is the view of the church, then i wholeheartedly agree with it!

I cannot speak to what you have been told. But what I quoted you was straight from the Catechism and the guy who is now Pope! Perhaps someone may be using the term “punishment” in reference to the “fire” usually associated with the purgation? I really cannot say without reading what anyone told you.

I think we’re in agreement on this one, bengal, and I’m sorry if someone told you different.

 

[bengal_fan]

Last year when I came back to the Church, at my local parish, they had meetings for those of us that were thinking about coming back. It was kind of like a refresher course. Lots of Q & A.

Anyway someone asked about Purgatory, & here’s what our priest said about it.

Picture yourself as a perfect piece of wood. Every time you sin a nail is hammered into the wood. You repent, the nails are taken out.

But you’re no longer perfect though, because the nails left holes.

Purgatory repairs the holes so we become that perfect piece of wood again.

I thought that was a very simple analogy.

God Bless

i think that’s a great analogy. i like the word “repair”. i just have a problem (theologically) with those who equate it to punishment or a repayment for sins. i firmly hold to the idea of purgatory, but as a “repairing” (never thought to use that word before) before heaven or remaking or cleansing. i agree that it won’t feel good (just like getting a really hard scrubbing from mom after rolling in mud all day). just because something hurts, doesn’t mean it’s a punishment.

 

[bengal_fan]

I cannot speak to what you have been told. But what I quoted you was straight from the Catechism and the guy who is now Pope! Perhaps someone may be using the term “punishment” in reference to the “fire” usually associated with the purgation? I really cannot say without reading what anyone told you.

I think we’re in agreement on this one, bengal, and I’m sorry if someone told you different.

i think you are right.