Purgatory...really?

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Paris Blues:
Oh, that reminds me! I still don’t understand why you guys think there’s a place called Purgatory. Please explain how this idea came up or did Jesus intend that too? :confused:
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Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but he is clean all over; and you are clean…” (John 13:10)

Purgatory is were Jesus washes our feet.🙂
 
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rlg94086:
Peace Josiah,
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Sorry, but we have to talk about sola scriptura briefly…

As Catholics, we use Scripture in arguments with Protestants because that’s all they will accept, but everything is not found in Scripture…even Scripture says so 🙂 (John 21:25; 2 Thessalonians 2:15).

I agree with this. However, I have problems when the teachings outside of scripture CONFLICT with what is said in scripture.

**So, if you want us to be consistent, fine. We will make a Catholic argument, using Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium. Don’t expect us to defend our beliefs from Scripture alone. **

That’s fine.

Or, try this. As a Protestant, why don’t you tell us what in the Scripture states that there is no purgatory without using any interpretation at all.

OK. Let’s try this. Bear with me on this. Let’s suppose I believe there’s a place we go before we enter heaven, where we actually do physical battle with Satan and his demons before we enter Heaven. After all Paul said we don’t wrestle with flesh and blood but against principalities of darkness…(Eph 6:12). Now you show me where in scripture it states that there is no such place. (Without interpretation of course).

Q: When you recieve a letter from someone. Do try to understand what they are saying by using Context? I’m sure you do. So why would you ask me to read a letter from an apostle any differently? Of course I’m going to use interpretation (reading in context) b/c it what we all do everyday when we pick up the newspaper.

Josiahhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
PS I don’t really believe that. Just so you don’t think I’m crazy heretic.**
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paris Blues
*Oh, that reminds me! I still don’t understand why you guys think there’s a place called Purgatory. Please explain how this idea came up or did Jesus intend that too? :confused:
*

Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but he is clean all over; and you are clean…” (John 13:10)

Purgatory is were Jesus washes our feet.🙂
Talk about TAKING A PASSAGE out of CONTEXT
 
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josiah:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paris Blues
*Oh, that reminds me! I still don’t understand why you guys think there’s a place called Purgatory. Please explain how this idea came up or did Jesus intend that too? :confused: *

Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but he is clean all over; and you are clean…” (John 13:10)

Purgatory is were Jesus washes our feet.🙂
Talk about TAKING A PASSAGE out of CONTEXT
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The poster was not taking out of context just trying to simplify a truth in scripture you have a hard time seeing.Let me ask you something on a practical level. If an alcoholic was forgiven because he was truly sorry,but as a consequence of his addiction when he died he still had the compulsion to drink, do you say that in heaven he will remain with that compulsion? If so, why? If not why?God Bless
 
I agree with this. However, I have problems when the teachings outside of scripture CONFLICT with what is said in scripture.
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Wonderful, then one thing you definitely don’t believe in is Sola Fide, since it directly conflicts with James 3:14-26…but, that’s a different thread…😉 The Catholic Church agrees with your statement - nothing in Tradition or the teaching of the Magisterium can conflict with Scripture.

Anyway, I have yet to see a conflict with any of the previous verses you posted in an attempt to refute a belief in purgatory. Yes, Christ’s blood cleanses us of all of our sins. To say that our sinful nature, and the spiritual and temporal consequences are wiped away at the same point in time, is an interpretation that we don’t agree on.
Of course I’m going to use interpretation (reading in context) b/c it what we all do everyday when we pick up the newspaper.
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Of course you are, we all do. So we agree interpretation is required to understand Scripture. Who’s interpretation am I to believe? In your example, we all use context when reading the paper, but we often come to a different understanding of events.

Are you going to tell me that there has never been a time when you read a book of the Bible believing you understood it completely, only later to read a commentary (from a trusted source) that disagreed with your understanding? Did the paraclete mislead you in your understanding of the context or your trusted source?

Pax,

Robert.

PS I might say you’re beliefs are heretical, but not crazy :whacky:
 
Josiah,

You wrote,"To be honest with you, as a non Catholic, I’m not interested in catholic commentaries or any literature that comes out of the catholic church b/c it carries no weight for me. Therefore, you might not want to assume that catholic literature is “good enough” for people who especially aren’t catholic. It’s also not the best argument.** If you want to prove your stand on purgatory by using scripture…then please stick to using scripture (It’s the only thing that I consider authoratative).**

but I will say this to you, the verse say he preached to the souls or dead people in prison, if they are in hell they are byond the help of preaching if they are in heaven they dont need preaching, so what does that leave you? the answer is very obvious!
Josiah, You poor Sola Scriptura fellow! You come here and say you aren’t interested in Catholic commentaries. Well get this, you are on a Catholic site what did you expect? If you are here looking for an argument, save your breath.

We are not interested on any Protestant blather, either. You are identified as a Sola Scriptura protest ant. Again if you are a “troll”, you have been identified.
 
this is just an aside. in the case of josiah and for others to understand me a little better. I dont mind some debate. or protestants wanting to know why we believe what we believe. but remember this is a catholic website. because of where I live and the place I work ,I work around christian reformed dutch all day, 6 days aweek. these people proseletise(dont know if I spelled it wright) to people not of their religion all the time where I work, and its just a car dealership.some of these people put john calvin equil to christ. after a long day of that bs , I come here to be around catholics!!! I like learing new things about my faith, giving my (name removed by moderator)ut on things I know. after 50to 60 hours a week of john calvin worshipers I need it big time. one of the thingsthat make me feel alive as a catholic is defending the doctorine of purgatory, it makes me feel much more alive than moving car around all day. when asked a about something in thechurch Im alway going to give a Catholic answer. before Im anything else including american , or even christian, Im Catholic. so dont expect anything but Catholicsism out of me. I know this is a bit off topic, but I saw a need for some posting in this thread to know where Im coming from.
 
C.S. Lewis, favorite author of Evangelicals, an Anglican – not a Catholic – was for many years an atheist. He wrote: “In . . .1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God . . . perhaps the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.” Lewis had this to say about Purgatory:

QUOTE:
Our souls demand Purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, ‘It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy,’? Sould we not reply, ‘With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I’d rather be cleaned first.’ ‘It may hurt, you know.’ – ‘Even so, sir.’

I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering . . . END QUOTE (emphasis in the original)

Prayer: Letters to Malcolm, Collins, Fontana Books, reissued 1974, p. 110

JMJ Jay
 
Josiah, Paris Blues,

Jesus was an observant Jew. So were the Apostles. The Apostles were the leaders and teachers of the Catholic Church, long before the New Testament existed. As Church Militant pointed out, the Jews believe in purification of the soul after death. They don’t have a name it, but we do – the Church calls it Purgatory, from the Latin purgatio, cleansing, purifying. The Apostles taught this Truth to the Church (the People of God – the first Christians and their leaders) and it became part of the Depositum Fides (Deposit of Faith) to be taught to future generations of Christians. It is implied in the Christian Scriptures because the Church was teaching it at the time she wrote the NT. It was in the Greek Septuagint that became the Christian Old Testament, but Martin Luther removed it. That’s why it isn’t in Protestant Bibles.

And so it is that the Church still teaches this Truth today. The Jews still pray for their dead. The ancient Eastern Orthodox churches also pray for their dead.

Protestants didn’t arrive on the scene until the 16th century, and they are disconnected from the Jewish roots from which the New Israel – the Catholic Church (Gal 6:16) – grew and flourished. The Catholic Church has much in common with the synagogue, where her ministry began.

Here’s Church Militant’s post again:
I have a buddy who is a Hasidic Jew and we talk about ouir faiths often. He caught me off guard one day when he told me that they also believe in a kind of purgatory. Like you I was impressed that this teaching is not unique to Catholicism and has roots in our Jewish “ancestry”.
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JMJ Jay
 
Katholikos said:
Josiah, Paris Blues,

Jesus was an observant Jew. So were the Apostles. The Apostles were the leaders and teachers of the Catholic Church, long before the New Testament existed. As Church Militant pointed out, the Jews believe in purification of the soul after death.

Here’s Church Militant’s post again:
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JMJ Jay

Just so you know. There are many types of Jews just like there are many different types of professing Christians. So, just b/c a Hasidic Jew believes in purification of the soul does not incorporate the whole faith of Judaism.
 
Paris Blues:
Oh, that reminds me! I still don’t understand why you guys think there’s a place called Purgatory. Please explain how this idea came up or did Jesus intend that too? :confused:

blessings,
Nicole
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As with many teachings of Holy Mother Church, understanding (and acceptance ) of this doctrine comes through prayer and fasting. Dominus Vobiscum.
 
So from what all of you are saying, it isn’t a human invention whereby we disregard the “last shall be first” teaching and others because in our carnal minds we have to rate ourselves and each other in degree of holiness and consequently “do time” to cleanse ourselves of the sins that Jesus already cleansed with His blood on the cross?

😃

Alan
(ducking for cover)
 
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