Purgatory--why would there be a 'need' for Hell?

[whatevergirl]

In studying the concept of purgatory, which I feel to be a beautiful ‘second chance’ that God gives to those of us who need to be ‘cleaned up’ before entering Heaven, I am a bit perplexed with certain aspects of it.

1. Is purgatory to cleanse souls from venial sins, mortal sins, both?
2. Does every soul go through purgatory, or do some go straight to Hell, past the Judgement Seat?
3. If our ancestors died say 20 years ago, not in perfect states of grace…are they still in purgatory?

Some things with this are still a little fuzzy. Can u help clarify? Thanks.

 

[KofC660]

In studying the concept of purgatory, which I feel to be a beautiful ‘second chance’ that God gives to those of us who need to be ‘cleaned up’ before entering Heaven, I am a bit perplexed with certain aspects of it.

1. Is purgatory to cleanse souls from venial sins, mortal sins, both?
2. Does every soul go through purgatory, or do some go straight to Hell, past the Judgement Seat?
3. If our ancestors died say 20 years ago, not in perfect states of grace…are they still in purgatory?

Some things with this are still a little fuzzy. Can u help clarify? Thanks.

1. According to human logic, it is for venial sins. However, God does not operate off of “human logic”;
2. According to Catholic Teaching, some souls go straight to Hell, and will be tormented there spiritually until they get their bodies back, then it becomes physical;
3. Purgatory is outside of time, so it is beneficial to pray for ALL of the dead, even Christians that died almost 2,000 years ago.

 

[Genesis315]

In studying the concept of purgatory, which I feel to be a beautiful ‘second chance’ that God gives to those of us who need to be ‘cleaned up’ before entering Heaven, I am a bit perplexed with certain aspects of it.

It’s not a second chance. There’s only one chance–you either die in God’s friendship or not, but, it is an acknoweldgement that we are weak and imperfect. It’s a place of healing, but just like some medicine’s and surgeries, it can be painful!

1. Is purgatory to cleanse souls from venial sins, mortal sins, both?

Venial sin and also it’s a place of “temporal punishment” that is, where we make retribution. For example, let’s say you steal $100, but repent, and are forgiven. You are now in the friendship of God again by the Blood of the Lamb, but there is still an injustice–you are up $100 and whoever you stole from is down $100. So, justice requires you to make retribution. Likewise, let’s say you gain some pleasure from sin, then you go to confession and are forgiven–you’ve still gained from that sin. If you don’t expiate it by denying yourself some lawful pleasure through penance, that justice will be made up in the pains of Purgatory.

1. Does every soul go through purgatory, or do some go straight to Hell, past the Judgement Seat?

The three possibilities are: straight to Hell (those in original sin or mortal sin), straight to Heaven (those who are already purified), or Heaven via purification.

1. If our ancestors died say 20 years ago, not in perfect states of grace…are they still in purgatory?

Maybe. As I mentioned above, there is a certain element of making satisfaction to Purgatory–but, since we are all members of the same Body, we can help them make satisfaction by praying for them, doing penance, obtaining indulgences, and offering our own suffering for them (we can also do these things for ourselve here on Earth if we are in God’s grace, to purify ourselves here–in fact, all the suffering of life has a purifying effect if we bear it in faith and grace.

 

[whatevergirl]

1. According to human logic, it is for venial sins. However, God does not operate off of “human logic”;
2. According to Catholic Teaching, some souls go straight to Hell, and will be tormented there spiritually until they get their bodies back, then it becomes physical;
3. Purgatory is outside of time, so it is beneficial to pray for ALL of the dead, even Christians that died almost 2,000 years ago.

reagrding #2??? what? tortured in eternity then physically? I didn’t know that tenet of the teaching?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

In studying the concept of purgatory, which I feel to be a beautiful ‘second chance’ that God gives to those of us who need to be ‘cleaned up’ before entering Heaven, I am a bit perplexed with certain aspects of it.

1. Is purgatory to cleanse souls from venial sins, mortal sins, both?If you are in purgatory, you have repented of all your sins, some of which could have been mortal before you confessed and were forgiven, but the temporal effects remain. So ‘both’ are cleansed but it is important to remember that unrepented mortal sin at the time of death–but not unrepented venial sin–will by definition mean that you have chosen hell and separated yourself from God.
2. Does every soul go through purgatory, or do some go straight to Hell, past the Judgement Seat? Purgatory, by definition, is only for those who need to be cleansed for Heaven. So yes, if you have freely chosen to separate yourself from God, you will go to Hell and you will never ever go to either Purgatory or Heaven. However, at the Last Judgment, even though you won’t ‘come out of hell’ you will still ‘stand before’ all peoples and the justice of God will be shown.
3. If our ancestors died say 20 years ago, not in perfect states of grace…are they still in purgatory? Heaven is ‘outside’ of time just as God is outside of time. Therefore ‘time’ in Purgatory is not like ‘time’ on earth. That being said, souls may exist in Purgatory until the ‘end of time’. Theoretically speaking, someone who died 100,000 years ago could still be in purgatory now (since we are obviously not yet at the end of time) and even longer. That is a good reason to pray for all our family and friends and for all the souls in purgatory, as some of them may have nobody who remembers them and prays for them.

Some things with this are still a little fuzzy. Can u help clarify? Thanks. I hope it helped a bit. God bless you.

 

[Genesis315]

Here is a beautiful explanation of what Purgatory is like, by St. Catherine of Genoa. She explains very well how it is all about love

cfpeople.org/Apologetics/page51a013.html

(it has a long introduction, the actual piece by St. Catherine startes at the heading “Chapter 1”)

 

[whatevergirl]

It’s not a second chance. There’s only one chance–you either die in God’s friendship or not, but, it is an acknoweldgement that we are weak and imperfect. It’s a place of healing, but just like some medicine’s and surgeries, it can be painful!

Venial sin and also it’s a place of “temporal punishment” that is, where we make retribution. For example, let’s say you steal $100, but repent, and are forgiven. You are now in the friendship of God again by the Blood of the Lamb, but there is still an injustice–you are up $100 and whoever you stole from is down $100. So, justice requires you to make retribution. Likewise, let’s say you gain some pleasure from sin, then you go to confession and are forgiven–you’ve still gained from that sin. If you don’t expiate it by denying yourself some lawful pleasure through penance, that justice will be made up in the pains of Purgatory.

The three possibilities are: straight to Hell (those in original sin or mortal sin), straight to Heaven (those who are already purified), or Heaven via purification.

Maybe. As I mentioned above, there is a certain element of making satisfaction to Purgatory–but, since we are all members of the same Body, we can help them make satisfaction by praying for them, doing penance, obtaining indulgences, and offering our own suffering for them (we can also do these things for ourselve here on Earth if we are in God’s grace, to purify ourselves here–in fact, all the suffering of life has a purifying effect if we bear it in faith and grace.

I do pray for people in purgatory…and last night, I thought…I wonder when these souls will be released? And I also pray for my family and me…to not have to spend too long in purgatory. I have heard priests say…‘I’d be lucky to go to purgatory.’

 

[LilyM]

1. According to human logic, it is for venial sins. However, God does not operate off of “human logic”;

It’s not a mere matter of human logic. Mortal sins are those which are sufficiently serious and wilful to cut us off completely from God’s grace.

If we are in a state of such complete ‘cut-offness’ from God at death, it’s irrevocable. As Jesus said ‘Fool! This night your life will be required of you’, indicating that there’s no changing your mind after death.

Like if we die leaving our house untidy, or a chess game unfinished, we can’t go back after death and tidy up or finish the game

1. According to Catholic Teaching, some souls go straight to Hell, and will be tormented there spiritually until they get their bodies back, then it becomes physical;

:yup:

1. Purgatory is outside of time, so it is beneficial to pray for ALL of the dead, even Christians that died almost 2,000 years ago.

And even if Purgatory is NOT outside time, the God who hears our prayers most certainly is and can apply our prayers to those we pray for retroactively.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

reagrding #2??? what? tortured in eternity then physically? I didn’t know that tenet of the teaching?

Well, at the Last Judgment our bodies will be united with our souls for eternity, right? Right.

Therefore, those in heaven will undergo heavenly spiritual and bodily bliss for eternity. That makes sense.

And those in hell will undergo spiritual and bodily torment for all eternity. Haven’t you read your Dante?

Hell is not to be taken lightly. For the last few decades we’ve heard so much “God is Love” that too many people think that there is no hell at all, or at most, that some people will go there until their ‘spirit’ repents somehow and that ‘at the end’, everybody will ‘choose heaven.’

But that is not Catholic teaching (in the sense of official Church teaching). At most, it is the wrong teaching of those who may identify themselves as Catholic.

Remember,
*The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs” (CCC 1035). *

 

[whatevergirl]

In studying the concept of purgatory, which I feel to be a beautiful ‘second chance’ that God gives to those of us who need to be ‘cleaned up’ before entering Heaven, I am a bit perplexed with certain aspects of it.

1. Is purgatory to cleanse souls from venial sins, mortal sins, both?If you are in purgatory, you have repented of all your sins, some of which could have been mortal before you confessed and were forgiven, but the temporal effects remain. So ‘both’ are cleansed but it is important to remember that unrepented mortal sin at the time of death–but not unrepented venial sin–will by definition mean that you have chosen hell and separated yourself from God.
2. Does every soul go through purgatory, or do some go straight to Hell, past the Judgement Seat? Purgatory, by definition, is only for those who need to be cleansed for Heaven. So yes, if you have freely chosen to separate yourself from God, you will go to Hell and you will never ever go to either Purgatory or Heaven. However, at the Last Judgment, even though you won’t ‘come out of hell’ you will still ‘stand before’ all peoples and the justice of God will be shown.
3. If our ancestors died say 20 years ago, not in perfect states of grace…are they still in purgatory? Heaven is ‘outside’ of time just as God is outside of time. Therefore ‘time’ in Purgatory is not like ‘time’ on earth. That being said, souls may exist in Purgatory until the ‘end of time’. Theoretically speaking, someone who died 100,000 years ago could still be in purgatory now (since we are obviously not yet at the end of time) and even longer. That is a good reason to pray for all our family and friends and for all the souls in purgatory, as some of them may have nobody who remembers them and prays for them.

Some things with this are still a little fuzzy. Can u help clarify? Thanks. I hope it helped a bit. God bless you.

omg–you have helped immensely! I just read your replies to my kids and husband…thank you!

 

[TarlsQtr]

reagrding #2??? what? tortured in eternity then physically? I didn’t know that tenet of the teaching?

Yes, Patrick Madrid spoke about this on EWTN Radio’s Catholic Answers just this afternoon. Our souls are punished in hell until the general judgment when our bodies are resurrected. The body then gets to join in on the “fun.”

I guess the best thing is to just not go there!

 

[Genesis315]

I do pray for people in purgatory…and last night, I thought…I wonder when these souls will be released? And I also pray for my family and me…to not have to spend too long in purgatory. I have heard priests say…‘I’d be lucky to go to purgatory.’

Pray for him too!

There are great spiritual gifts you can give to the departed, known as indulgences. These were abused and were major beef of the Reformers, but properly understood, they are a beautiful thing, that displays the unity of the Church of every generation as One Body.

From the power of “binding and loosing” given to the successors of St. Peter and the Apostles, the Pope and bishops can grant indulgences, that is, a forgiveness of the “temporal punishment” I mentioned above. This comes from the superabundant treasury of merit earned by Jesus Christ and his entire mystical body.

There are two kind–partial and plenary (or full). Every pious act that the Church has indulgenced, at least remits some of the satisfaction owed. Some remit all, provided the indivual has recently gone to confession and received communion, and also has no attachment to sin (not that you don’t sin, but rather that there is no sin you don’t want to give up). Likewise, we pray for the intentions of the Holy Father.

Here is a booklet with all the acts and prayers that are indulgenced. Send your relatives a spiritual gift

ourladyswarriors.org/indulge/index.html

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, Patrick Madrid spoke about this on EWTN Radio’s Catholic Answers just this afternoon. Our souls are punished in hell until the general judgment when our bodies are resurrected. The body then gets to join in on the “fun.”

I guess the best thing is to just not go there!

I agree…I am so grateful that God pulled me out of mortal sin…in the past. I shudder to think of what my secular life would be like if I was still behaving stupidly…and not with God as the center of my life…and even more so for eternity. I told my kids this and it really got their attention. (not about my stupid sins ha…but about your post!)

just to be clear:doh2:

 

[Isle_of_Avalon]

About mortal and venial sins, are they listed somewhere in the Scriptures or in the writings of the saints? Where can I find out which sins are mortal and which are venial? I know among the sins that are mortal are ones like murder and suicide, but what are the others? And which would be considered venial?

 

[Genesis315]

St. Paul lists some here:

Gal. 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, 20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, 21 Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that **they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God. **

 

[Genesis315]

Here’s more:

1 Cor. 6:9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

 

[Catholig]

I don’t think anyone mentioned it so I will. There is a prayer called the St. Gertrude Pray which is supposed to release 1,000 souls from purgatory every time it is prayed. I’d like to share it with you all - and hope that you’ll pray it as well:

Eternal Father, I offer You the most Precious Blood of Your Divine Son, Jesus Christ, in union with the Masses said today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the Universal Church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.

Catholig

 

[Renton405]

Purgatory always has scared me… I wear the borown scapular and the medal… I also pray the St. Gertrude prayer alot to help the souls in purgatory…

The thing that worrys me the most about it is what St. Augustine said:

"This fire of Purgatory will be more severe than any pain that can be felt, seen or conceived in this world.

The pains in purgatory being almost equal to hell…

“Do penance, or you will burn long years in Purgatory, is a fact that there is no getting away from…Which of us does not tremble when he thinks of those who have been burnt to death in a slow fire? What fear would not be ours if we had to face a similar death? Yet their suffering was of relatively short duration. The incomparably fiercer fire of Purgatory, which we may have to face, may last 20, or 50 or 100 years!” 5

Another source lists a Prayer of St. Gertrude the Great, which M. Cardinal Pahiarca allegedly said (at Lisbon, Portugal, on 1936-MAR-4) would release 1000 souls from Purgatory each time it is recited:

"Eternal Father, I offer they the most precious blood of thy Devine [sic] Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the Universal Church, those in my own home and with in my family. Amen."6

It is not beyond the realm of possibility for a person to repeat this prayer 1000 times a day, and thus release 1 million souls from Purgatory. A three person team, working for an entire year could release over one billion souls!

 

[Genesis315]

The thing that worrys me the most about it is what St. Augustine said:

"This fire of Purgatory will be more severe than any pain that can be felt, seen or conceived in this world.

The pains in purgatory being almost equal to hell…

Yes, but, as St. Catherine of Genoa explains, there is a difference. In Hell, souls are filled with despair and so the pain is truly torment. In Purgatory, the souls cannot sin anymore and they know they are suffering because of God’s love so that they may enter Heaven–therefore they suffer joyously for Christ, similar to the martyrs. For example, when St. Lawrence was being cooked on the grill, he joyously sang praise to the Lord and even said to his torturers, “turn me over, this side is done!” The souls in Purgatory are like that. Likewise, the more one is purified, the more one burns with charity, and the less torment is caused by the pain.

 

[Genesis315]

Great link Catholig!