Purgatory.

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I have question: what is “ect?”

I am reading a book by Fr. Seaphim Rose, who was a priest of the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia. It is called The Soul After Death. He says that after death a soul is on the earth for three days where it can go anywhere it wants to on earth by willing to be there. Then after that for about the next six weeks it undergoes a kind of judgement where an angel coveys the soul up to heaven. However, there are way stations along the way where the devils tempt it and accuse it of its sins. Souls who have no attraction to earthly things go straight to heaven and souls who are immersed in sin go straight to hell. However, souls who have some good in them go to what seems like the outskirts of hell where they suffer.They can not help themsleves but can be helped by the prayers and penances of the faithful and especially by remembrace in the Mass.So they can finally get to heaven. However, if the Lord should return in glory while they are in the outskirts, then they will stay in hell for all eternity.

I was wondering if that is what all Orthodox believe about what happens after death.
 
LouisH said:
I have question: what is “ect?”

I am reading a book by Fr. Seaphim Rose, who was a priest of the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia. It is called The Soul After Death. He says that after death a soul is on the earth for three days where it can go anywhere it wants to on earth by willing to be there. Then after that for about the next six weeks it undergoes a kind of judgement where an angel coveys the soul up to heaven. However, there are way stations along the way where the devils tempt it and accuse it of its sins. Souls who have no attraction to earthly things go straight to heaven and souls who are immersed in sin go straight to hell. However, souls who have some good in them go to what seems like the outskirts of hell where they suffer.They can not help themsleves but can be helped by the prayers and penances of the faithful and especially by remembrace in the Mass.So they can finally get to heaven. However, if the Lord should return in glory while they are in the outskirts, then they will stay in hell for all eternity.

I was wondering if that is what all Orthodox believe about what happens after death.
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Rev. Fr. Alexander Schmemman points out that it isn’t universally believed in For the Life of the World: Sacraments and Orthodoxy. Most of my OCA-RO acquaintances don’t ascribe to the toll-house theory, either.
 
Dear Ones,
Code: 
I copied this from a website of  the renowned Roman Catholic priest   Fr. Fortea.   Have you ever suddenly thought of someone who has pasted.  Sometimes this is so intense one can feel their presence..  So  I pray.  I pray sometimes for those who have nobody tto ppray for themm.
"The universal experience of all exorcists, who have dedicated themselves to this subject, is to have observed that, once the distinction is clearly made between possession and infestation, there sometimes appears a third type of phenomenon, distinct from the other two: ghosts. Ghosts are apparitions of people who are in Purgatory. These apparitions have characteristics which are always the same and very different from infestations:

-the soul appears in human form.
-it does not say anything.
-it appears in a menacing and terrifying manner.
It never moves objects nor makes any noise. When it appears it just stares, in a very unfriendly way, and then just disappears. We know it is not the devil, because the phenomenon does not do anything more. It disappears if masses and prayers are said for its soul. These apparitions are ways of calling our attention so that prayers be said for it"
 
‘very unfriendly’ sounds rather more diabolical than purgatorial.

The statements above sounds somewhat off, or incomplete.

Let me quote for example, Schouppe’s book ‘Purgatory’ - ‘When the souls in Purgatory appear to the living, they always present themselves in an attitude which excites compassion; . . . with a sad countenance and imploring looks, in garments of mourning, with an expression of extreme suffering. . . they often appear enveloped in flames. When they speak it is to manifest their sufferings, to deplore their past faults, to ask sufferages, or even to address reproaches to those who ought to succor them.’

The very end of the quote could fit with Fortea. In other words that he is encountering a lot of reproachful souls. I could well imagine that those in purgatory are not gaining the help gained in past times.
 
Shin,
Code: 
   These are the sentiments of  the present president of the International Association of Exorcists.  Fr. Fortea studied Theology at the University of Navarre, received the degree of licentiate in the field of History of the Church at the faculty of Theology of Comillas, and defended his thesis entitled "Exorcism in the Present Age" under the direction of the Secretary of the Commission for the Doctrine of the Faith of the Spain Conference of Catholic Bishops.

    I  apologize for his incomplete and off statements.
BluesPicker
 
And Fr. Schouppe, S.J. is no slouch either, considering the material he gathers from is the saints, from which he presents many direct sourced examples of encounters.

AFAIK Fr. Fortea isn’t a saint yet.

I simply think that it is Fr. Fortea’s bad English, which is quite evident on his website or some other similar misunderstanding, and am not claiming expertise.
 
As a part of the conditions of union with Rome, Byzantine Catholics, or people and clergy of the Greek Rite, as they called it then, were to subscribe to the Creed of Pius IV (1564 AD) or in Latin the Forma professionis fidei Catholicae

This creed includes the subscription to: “the doctrine of purgatory, and that the suffrages of the living avail for the souls there confined.” Constitutionally, the Eastern Catholic Churches are bound by their foundation via this forma professionis fidei. The Popes have never rescinded this foundation of the unias in the context of the so-called Tridentine Credo.

Therefore, technically, we are to believe in purgatory as a condition of union. Some priests and faithful of the Byzantine Churches ignore the doctrine as a latinization or because it was never explained to them. Personally, I subscribe to the notion of a purgation following death. I leave it to God to decide all the details for us after we die. There are mystical testimonies about purgatory and private revelations that seem to validate the claims of Rome regarding it. There seem to be mystics on both sides trying to validate their claims. All I can say is that I believe in some form of purgation and that prayer for the dead helps, especially the Divine Liturgy.

In Christ,

Robert
 
LouisH said:
I have question: what is “ect?”
THE OPPOSIT OF ETC NANCY:D
I am reading a book by Fr. Seaphim Rose, who was a priest of the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia. It is called The Soul After Death. He says that after death a soul is on the earth for three days where it can go anywhere it wants to on earth by willing to be there. Then after that for about the next six weeks it undergoes a kind of judgement where an angel coveys the soul up to heaven. However, there are way stations along the way where the devils tempt it and accuse it of its sins. Souls who have no attraction to earthly things go straight to heaven and souls who are immersed in sin go straight to hell. However, souls who have some good in them go to what seems like the outskirts of hell where they suffer.They can not help themsleves but can be helped by the prayers and penances of the faithful and especially by remembrace in the Mass.So they can finally get to heaven. However, if the Lord should return in glory while they are in the outskirts, then they will stay in hell for all eternity.

I was wondering if that is what all Orthodox believe about what happens after death.
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I hope not. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord Look up Ecc:12:6,7, Nancy
 
When we get to Heaven, we will need to be perfectly united to Him in order to stand in the Lord’s presence. Scripture is clear: “Without holiness, no one will see God” (Hebrews 12:14). To me this means that those of us, and there are many, who die without asking forgiveness of current or past venial sins, will not be in a position to see God’s face until we cleanse our souls of these sins. Now we may think we’re doing pretty good in our lives; but if we are honest, we’ll admit that we all have things that need work, and sins to be forgiven. And if we die before we are perfectly conformed to Christ, there is still some spiritual “dirt” that needs to be purged. The final cleansing that makes up what we lack, the last phase of our sanctification, is what Catholics refer to as purgatory. Far from being a terror, in many ways, purgatory is a guarantee of our destiny. Everyone who undergoes purgatory WILL be guaranteed a place in Heaven.
 
Where does that beleif come from and how long ago? Ive never herd of that before. Nancy
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That is a very common Eastern Christian understanding [Eastern Catholic and Orthodox] and this Catechism was originally published in Kyiv in the late 1600s.

The efficacy of the unbloody Sacrifice of the Altar [whether referred to as the Mass or the Divine Liturgy] for the dead is believed by both Catholics and Orthodox.
FDRLB
 
SeanTom said:
When we get to Heaven, we will need to be perfectly united to Him in order to stand in the Lord’s presence. Scripture is clear: “Without holiness, no one will see God” (Hebrews 12:14). To me this means that those of us, and there are many, who die without asking forgiveness of current or past venial sins, will not be in a position to see God’s face until we cleanse our souls of these sins. Now we may think we’re doing pretty good in our lives; but if we are honest, we’ll admit that we all have things that need work, and sins to be forgiven. And if we die before we are perfectly conformed to Christ, there is still some spiritual “dirt” that needs to be purged. The final cleansing that makes up what we lack, the last phase of our sanctification, is what Catholics refer to as purgatory. Far from being a terror, in many ways, purgatory is a guarantee of our destiny. Everyone who undergoes purgatory WILL be guaranteed a place in Heaven.
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Who made up the word purgatory?When?Thank You Nancy
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
Who made up the word purgatory?When?Thank You Nancy
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Nancy,

I regret that I can not come up with the date and exact origin of the word Purgatory, but the word “purge” is used throughout the old testament, especially in the book of Deuteronomy. The word “purge” means to cleanse; to become pure, this the word Purgatory…

Purgatory is the place and state in which souls suffer for a while and must be “purged” after death, before they can enter into heaven, on account of their sins.

Some other quotes:

When Jesus was speaking of the sin against the Holy Spirit, He said that “such” a sin “will not be forgiven either in this world or in the next,” thus implying tht there are some sins that can be atoned for in the next world.

Venial sins, which have never in life been remitted by an act of repentance or love or by good deeds; and grave sins, the guilt of which with its eternal punishment, has indeed been removed by 'God after an act of repentance, but for which there is still left a debt of temporal punishment due to His justice on account of the imperfection and that repentance, must be “purged” away after death. Thus, the sinner will have his blisful vision of God delayed, by some pain of sense, until his soul is purified.

Scripture is clear: “Without holiness, no one will see God” (Hebrews 12:14). To be in the state of Holiness, your sould must be totally pure, or purged, of all sins.

As I said, I figure that the word Purgatory comes from the word “purge or purged”.

As far as when this belief started, I don’t know, but in the Old Testament there was a belief in the existence of what we now call purgatory, for there we find Judas Machabeus sending 12,000 drachmas to Jerusalem to have sacrifices offered for the sins of the dead.

The word “Purgatory” goes way back, or at least it’s meaning does. All the Faher’s of the church believes in Purgatory. If the name troubles you, think of Purgatory as the “Purification Room” where one is purified before seeing the face of God.

Wish I could be of more help. I am sure there will be other good and perhaps more reliable replies to your posting.
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
I hope not. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord Look up Ecc:12:6,7, Nancy
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Nothing about the teaching of purgatory contradicts that verse.

There is no “time” definition about purgatory, just that everyone will be perfectly unblemished before they stand before the lamb.

Not just covered in the blood, but truly cleansed.
 
But how can that be? Jesus cleansed and purged me from my sins on the cross.Heb:1:3, 9:22, 10:2, 2Peter:1:9. Why then would I go to a place of pain after I die?:confused:
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
But how can that be? Jesus cleansed and purged me from my sins on the cross.Heb:1:3, 9:22, 10:2, 2Peter:1:9. Why then would I go to a place of pain after I die?:confused:
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Did he purge us from our sins? If so then why do we continue to be so attracted to them?

You seem to look at the work of Christ as some kind of ‘ticket to heaven’… perhaps we should look at it as Christ renewing our ‘capacity’ to truly ‘love’ God and in loving Him we can ‘actually’ obey His Commandments? How about that? 🤷

For those of us who fail to fulfill this, that build with ‘wood and straw’ well will be saved but by ‘Fire’. Ouch.
 
Your like all the rest,that think you cant go to heaven unless your Catholic How narrow minded I do beleive in the 10 commandments and how can you judge the whole world by what your man made rules say? I go by the Bible and what it say’s.And I am going to heaven,because I’m not a hippocrite,and I pray for people I dont know.You dont even know me to judge me or anyone else for that matter.As you beleive. If you want to go to purgatory,go.I’m going to paradise until the Lord comes to get me.He already went to the grave for me,he took my place and no I do not take advantage of that fact.I appreciate it. God knows my heart,and he hears my prayers,and has answered every one. Because I beleive and he loves me and I love him. Nancy:)
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
But how can that be? Jesus cleansed and purged me from my sins on the cross.Heb:1:3, 9:22, 10:2, 2Peter:1:9.
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Really? So you are perfectly holy right now? Scripture definitely tells us we need to be perfect,Matt. 5:48.

And you would agree that one should look at the whole bible? That scripture does not contradict itself?

What about these verses?

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59
Matt. 12:32
1 Cor. 3:10-15
 
MariaG said:
Really? So you are perfectly holy right now? Scripture definitely tells us we need to be perfect,Matt. 5:48. 🙂 We stride for perfection,we are all sinners saved by Grace. Nancy

And you would agree that one should look at the whole bible? That scripture does not contradict itself? 🙂 People contradict.

What about these verses?

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 🙂 Not another person that is talking about something differnt read the whole 3 verses before it.👍
Matt. 12:32 I did not blaspheme!
1 Cor. 3:10-15
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that goes for you too!
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
that goes for you too!
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What goes for me too?

That I will have to be perfectly holy? Absolutely!

That scripture Can’t contradict? Absolutely! Yet the Catholic interpretation is the only one that doesn’t contradict especially when you take into account the books of the bible Protestants removed.

God Bless
 
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