Purgatory

[Charlotte408]

Ok, before Christ came-people couldnt get into heaven, because Adam & Eve disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit. Then, Christ came, the Redeemer, and He redeemed all man’s sins for the past and future…a new covenant…and now, when faced with Him in heaven…you just have to accept Him, not reject Him…because if you’ve accepted Him in your heart, then your forgiven of your sins…that is why, He sacrificed Himself on the cross…

Right???

So…then why is there purgatory? I could understand a purgatory BEFORE Christ came…kind of like a lobby for souls to wait for Christ to come and redeem them…but, if he’s forgiven and died for all souls to go to heaven, past and present, that would mean that everyone up there before Him was cleared, and everyone AFTER Him cleared- on the premise that they do not reject Him.

If you die, and go to heaven, and meet Jesus, and accept Him, He of course forgives you- because He ALREADY has- then why the further need for purgatory?

**Posters Note: I am not a bible scholar (LOL) so can we please keep answers/conversation short, simple, straight to the point…no big crazy words I have to bust my dictionary out for! Just casual convo is much appreciated!!

 

[mswood]

I am no expert by any means but we did have a lesson on purgatory recently in my RCIA class. The way it was explained to us is that when you sin, especially mortal sin it scars your soul. So even though you go to confession here on earth and are forgiven for the sin you are still scared, purgatory is where you go to have your soul healed and made pure before you are allowed to see GOD, in this way you have a perfect soul when you get to heaven. They said this is also where you go to do penance for any unforgiven venial sins or for forgiven mortal sins on earth that still require more penance before you are allowed into heaven. They also said that anyone in Purgatory is definitely going to heaven, but no one knows how long a person would need to be in Purgatory. In the book we are using for RCIA it also says that the most likely punishment in Purgatory is the delayed beautification vision, meaning the delay in seeing and being with God is the punishment.

 

[JS_Cortez]

Purgatory isn’t so much a “lobby for people to wait in” but more like a “hallway for people to walk through” to keep with a similar metaphor. Anyone who goes to Purgatory is already redeemed through Jesus’ precious blood being shed and will be allowed entrance into Heaven. However, not everyone dies ready to see the face of the Lord and to enter the glory of Heaven. Not because they aren’t forgiven, but because they aren’t perfect. Purgatory will cleanse them and prepare them for the perfection needed for Heaven.

There was a story I heard once about the Lord and a recently deceased soul talking as they approached the gates of paradise. The soul had lived a decent life, but not a perfect one. His robe was white from being in the blood of the Lamb, but his face was dirty, hair matted, the rest of him a just a general mess. The Lord told him that everyone in Heaven would be very polite and ignore all of that but the soul asked if there was a way to get cleaned up a bit more. That would be Purgatory.

 

[Charlotte408]

So we go to purgatory BEFORE meeting with Christ? So even someone who might ultimately deny Him would still have to ‘work off’ for lack of better words, their sins?

I guess that would make sense, then, that everyone who IS in hell, now sinless, they’re only sin would be denying Christ- So, in essence, the ONLY way you could go to hell, is for denying Christ…so a murderer, an abortion doctor, the worst of the worst, they all go to purgatory and sooner or later will be healed and sinless- but it in the end it all comes down to wether or not they accept Christ- in the end.

But I have another Question…you said ‘They also said that anyone in Purgatory is definitely going to heaven’

with the exception that if after when they go to meet Christ they deny Him, correct?

 

[Charlotte408]

Also, if Christ died for our sins right, you know how before like I said- Adam and eve, then the new covenant that cleared us past and present…

If Christs sacrifice cleared all sins PAST and future…than that would have cleared up the sin of Adam and Eve, and it did, because now were allowed into heaven…so if that sin has been forgiven, why are we still born with the stain of original sin??

 

[Lizziebel]

Well, purgatory would be before entering Heaven and seeing God the father face to face as He is. But Christ visits the souls in purgatory, ministering to the souls there and helping them be made ready to enter Heaven.

At the moment of our death, our choice is fixed either for God or against God.

Those in hell are the ones who did not repent of mortal sin before death, and so are not made sinless. After their particular judgment with Christ, they are simply granted their choice of eternal separation from God.

It is said in the Bible that nothing unclean may enter Heaven. Those who have repented and completely made reparation for sins during their lives prior to death, and die ready to enter Heaven may go directly there after their particular judgment with Christ. They are the ones who have battled well against the temptation to sin and have overcome. This is where responding to God’s grace in our lives is so important, because it helps us overcome sin and purify our souls in preparation for Heaven.

Those who die in God’s friendship, without unrepented mortal sin but still have some venial sin or temporal debt from sin to pay, need time in purgatory after their particular judgment to basically “clean up” and finish paying their debt. Then, when their souls are fully healed and cleaned, with all tendency to sin removed from them by the purification process in purgatory, they are made ready to enter into Heaven.

 

[youngsaint]

Also, if Christ died for our sins right, you know how before like I said- Adam and eve, then the new covenant that cleared us past and present…

If Christs sacrifice cleared all sins PAST and future…than that would have cleared up the sin of Adam and Eve, and it did, because now were allowed into heaven…so if that sin has been forgiven, why are we still born with the stain of original sin??

Original sin is a mark on the soul, made by Adam and Eves first sin. It is pretty much man’s inclination to sin. According to the Baltimore Catechism, “original sin is called original because it comes down to us through our origin, or descent, from Adam.”

It also explains your question, “On account of the sin of Adam, we, his decedents, come into the world deprived of sanctifying grace, and inherit his punishment, as we would have inherited [Grace, Great Knowledge, Control of passions by reason, Freedom from sickness and Death] had he been obedient.”

 

[Charlotte408]

Original sin is a mark on the soul, made by Adam and Eves first sin. It is pretty much man’s inclination to sin. According to the Baltimore Catechism, “original sin is called original because it comes down to us through our origin, or descent, from Adam.”

It also explains your question, “On account of the sin of Adam, we, his decedents, come into the world deprived of sanctifying grace, and inherit his punishment, as we would have inherited [Grace, Great Knowledge, Control of passions by reason, Freedom from sickness and Death] had he been obedient.”

YET- When Christ came his death on the cross became the new convenant which forgave all sins PAST and future- so why does that sin remain? Why does it still get passed on to us?

 

[fabricdragon]

um. i think the assumption you are making is so very non catholic that it is confusing to me

we do not “accept Jesus or deny him in heaven” unless we honestly have had no chance to do so here on earth.

purgatory is for people like me (i hope) who have accepted Christ, and WILL one day arrive in heaven, but are too tainted with sin to go there without being “washed clean” because nothing impure can enter heaven, and most of us are far from pure…

but because i am “in Christ” and i try to keep his commandments, i should be able to avoid Hell…at least, like all of us, i am doing my best to stay out of it…

while i may hope and try to avoid purgatory… i know i am FAR from perfect,
so i give great thanks to God that there is someplace people like me can go to be purified enough to enter Heaven, and thus avoid the pure (but terrible) choice of “pure enough for heaven, or you go to Hell” because so few of us would make it at the moment of our deaths…

we need a place to cleanse us of the dirt and mud and mire… before we may enter to the purity of God. because our faith is not even that of the mustard seed… and our virtues are weak… but out of God’s great mercy we may enter Heaven even so

 

[Shin]

Purgatory satisfies the penance due to our sins through God’s justice.

If we had satisfied that penance on earth by becoming truly holy and pure, we would not need to pay it in the next life.

But still attached to some sins and/or some of those sins still having wrecked harm, the price is to be paid.

I know of one soul that painted an impure picture. God kept that soul in purgatory as long as that picture existed on earth and did harm to other souls. The man would not have even entered purgatory if he had not repented painting it in the first place, he would have gone to Hell.

Christ’s sacrifice does not automatically take away all the punishment due our sins, ‘unless you do penance’ you shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Limbo is where the holy men of the old testament waited, not purgatory.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Actually…the Bosom of Abraham is where they would have went…Limbo is the place that children, etc. who are not capable of sinning go to when they tragically die prior to receiving Baptism…such as murdered child at the hands of an abortion doctor

Limbo is where the holy men of the old testament waited, not purgatory.

 

[Shin]

Actually…the Bosom of Abraham is where they would have went…Limbo is the place that children, etc. who are not capable of sinning go to when they tragically die prior to receiving Baptism…such as murdered child at the hands of an abortion doctor

The Bosom of Abraham and Limbo are two terms for the same thing, it is called ‘The Limbo of the Fathers’ and after Christ, ‘The Limbo of the Infants’, they are both used.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Not saying you are not right…I have just always heard there was a distinction between the two…which I could be wrong…if you have a source of the subject, I would be interested in reading about it…I know this is what the CCC says:

The Catechism explains,

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell”— Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him. (CCC 633)

Thanks in advance

The Bosom of Abraham and Limbo are two terms for the same thing, it is called ‘The Limbo of the Fathers’ and after Christ, ‘The Limbo of the Infants’, they are both used.

 

[Shin]

Not saying you are not right…I have just always heard there was a distinction between the two…which I could be wrong…if you have a source of the subject, I would be interested in reading about it…I know this is what the CCC says:

The Catechism explains,

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell”— Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him. (CCC 633)

Thanks in advance

I suggest you don’t rely on only that Catechism, too many people do and miss out on a a thing or two, or three, or four.

The Baltimore Catechism:

Q. Why did Christ descend into Limbo? A. Christ descended into Limbo to preach to the souls who were in prison–that is, to announce to them the joyful tidings of their redemption.

Q. Where was Christ’s body while His soul was in Limbo? A. While Christ’s soul was in Limbo His body was in the Holy Sepulchre. “Sepulchre” is the same as tomb.

Or the Pope St. Pius X Catechism:

1 Q. What are we taught in the Fifth Article: He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead?

A. The Fifth Article of the Creed teaches us that the Soul of Jesus Christ, on being separated from His Body, descended to the Limbo of the holy Fathers, and that on the third day it became united once more to His Body, never to be parted from it again.

---

That is not to say that the infants and the fathers are in that place treated the same, but that it is an equivalent place outside of Heaven, on the edge of Hell (which is what everyplace not in Heaven generally considered theologically).

 

[michaeldaniels]

I seemed to have skipped over that section in my BC…I have all of them at the house…I will check it out. Thanks

I suggest you don’t rely on only that Catechism, too many people do and miss out on a a thing or two, or three, or four.

The Baltimore Catechism:

Q. Why did Christ descend into Limbo? A. Christ descended into Limbo to preach to the souls who were in prison–that is, to announce to them the joyful tidings of their redemption.

Q. Where was Christ’s body while His soul was in Limbo? A. While Christ’s soul was in Limbo His body was in the Holy Sepulchre. “Sepulchre” is the same as tomb.

Or the Pope St. Pius X Catechism:

1 Q. What are we taught in the Fifth Article: He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead?

A. The Fifth Article of the Creed teaches us that the Soul of Jesus Christ, on being separated from His Body, descended to the Limbo of the holy Fathers, and that on the third day it became united once more to His Body, never to be parted from it again.

---

That is not to say that the infants and the fathers are in that place treated the same, but that it is an equivalent place outside of Heaven, on the edge of Hell (which is what everyplace not in Heaven generally considered theologically).

 

[Shin]

It’s an interesting subject really. I haven’t looked into the physical aspects of it all as much as I would like.

 

[Charlotte408]

Actually…the Bosom of Abraham is where they would have went…Limbo is the place that children, etc. who are not capable of sinning go to when they tragically die prior to receiving Baptism…such as murdered child at the hands of an abortion doctor

aborted babies go to limbo??? not straight to heaven? aw how sad…and why is that? its at no fault of their own that they were aborted? is limbo the same as purgatory, in the sense that thru our prayers we can help get them to heaven?

 

[Charlotte408]

And just so I get this right, because I think I had it backwards which is why I was confused…the order in which it occurs…

You live. You sin. You accept God, or you dont.

You die. Then one of two things happens:

A. If during life you sinned and didnt accept God, you go straight to Hell. Never meet Christ, because you’ve already denied Him in life. End of story.

B. If you accepted Christ as your saviour, you will go to Purgatory, work off the scars of your sins so that your soul is beautified and made pure and perfect for heaven.

Once B is completed you meet with Christ- and enter pearly gates.

Yeah?

I was under the impression once you died FIRST you met Christ and either accepted or rejected Him, and by that choice determined if you went to purgatory or hell…

And I dont know why saying that someone has to ‘accept or reject’ Christ is ‘uncatholic’??? (as per an earlier poster) I thought that was the whole basis for your salvation?!

 

[Shin]

aborted babies go to limbo??? not straight to heaven? aw how sad…and why is that? its at no fault of their own that they were aborted? is limbo the same as purgatory, in the sense that thru our prayers we can help get them to heaven?

No, it’s not like purgatory. It’s generally considered a place of natural happiness but not the supernatural happiness of the beatific vision of God. Anyone who dies in original sin, cannot go to Heaven and so have the beatific vision.

So, if before the age of reason, i.e. before you commit personal sins, you die without having being baptized, you will go to limbo.

This is one of the reasons why to cause an abortion is such a grave sin, and why Adam and Eve’s original sin is so grave because of all the physical ills we are tormented with that sometimes cause children not to survive pregnancy.

 

[Charlotte408]

No, it’s not like purgatory. It’s generally considered a place of natural happiness but not the supernatural happiness of the beatific vision of God. Anyone who dies in original sin, cannot go to Heaven and so have the beatific vision.

So, if before the age of reason, i.e. before you commit personal sins, you die without having being baptized, you will go to limbo.

This is one of the reasons why to cause an abortion is such a grave sin, and why Adam and Eve’s original sin is so grave because of all the physical ills we are tormented with that sometimes cause children not to survive pregnancy.

AAAAHHH! I HATE abortion!! so much more now even!! thats sooo horrible…