Purgatory

  • Thread starter Thread starter Louemma
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Louemma

Guest
Please bear with me as I ask more question regarding the Catholic beliefs.🙂
I do not know much of anything on the subject of purgatory.I will tell you what I do know so maybe someone could please lead me to a better understanding.
Purgatory is a place were someone goes at death.Purgatory is a place only reserved for those who are not completely lost to hell but are not refined enough(pure enough) for entering into Paradise.
I also believe that the Catholic faith is the only christian belief that teaches purgatory.I also know that I was taught that this was a false teaching.
What if it’s not?What if there is a place such as purgatory and I am over looking scripture in the word of God explaining purgatory.Now I know that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life or at the judgement.
This leaves one with the ideal that sin can be forgiven at the judgement.So is this where the Purgatory teaching comes from?
If Purgatory is real then my understanding is that, there are prayers that one can pray on behalf of one who may be in purgatory?
If this is true,then just who is it that can end up in purgatory?
Thank you ahead of time for your patience with one who knows hardly a thing about the Catholic belief:blush:
 
It is a huge misconception that purgatory is somehow an in-between sentence for people who are not good enough for heaven and not bad enough for hell. Purgatory is a place only for souls that are bound for heaven. Period. We know from scripture that nothing unclean can enter heaven, and that our deeds will be tested by fire. Essentially, people who die in a state of grace but who have some sort of venial sin tied to them (lets say, holding a grudge) will go through a purification process before heaven, since nothing unclean can enter heaven. Purgatory is preparation for heaven that makes us able to enter heaven. It is not a mid-point between heaven and hell.
 
MercyMia said:
It is a huge misconception that purgatory is somehow an in-between sentence for people who are not good enough for heaven and not bad enough for hell. Purgatory is a place only for souls that are bound for heaven. Period. We know from scripture that nothing unclean can enter heaven, and that our deeds will be tested by fire. Essentially, people who die in a state of grace but who have some sort of venial sin tied to them (lets say, holding a grudge) will go through a purification process before heaven, since nothing unclean can enter heaven. Purgatory is preparation for heaven that makes us able to enter heaven. It is not a mid-point between heaven and hell.
Click to expand...
Thank You so much for your answer.
However,I still desire to know more.By saying that purgatory is a misconception of an in between sentence don’t make sense to me.Purgatory sounds in between to me.I’m sorry but I need a more clear picture or maybe scripture because I don’t understand.I always thought you either went to Heaven or Hell and Purgatory was never in my belief so you see to me it sounds in between.Also I do realize that Purgatory is intended for those bound for heaven.I understand that part.
 
Louemma said:
Thank You so much for your answer.
However,I still desire to know more.By saying that purgatory is a misconception of an in between sentence don’t make sense to me.Purgatory sounds in between to me.I’m sorry but I need a more clear picture or maybe scripture because I don’t understand.I always thought you either went to Heaven or Hell and Purgatory was never in my belief so you see to me it sounds in between.Also I do realize that Purgatory is intended for those bound for heaven.I understand that part.
Click to expand...
I think what MercyMia was trying to say is there are only two options when you die, heaven or hell. Purgatory isn’t like a second chance at making it to heaven. If you are going to heaven, you might make a stop in purgatory, since nothing clean enters heaven. I guess you can call that an in between state, but the main point is there are only two places we will ultimately end up after we die.

Edit: I don’t want to put words in MercyMia’s mouth, so if I misspoke, he / she can correct me.
 
From the Catechism:

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire: As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: “Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.” 2 Macc 12:46 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.
 
Louemma:

Look at it this way. Suppose you had a rule that only family members could come in your house, period, no exceptions. Now, your son was out playing in the mud in the back yard. He is covered with mud from head to toe, he is soooooo covered with mud that even the insides of his clothes are muddy. When dinner time comes around he comes to the door to enter the house. He is a family member. You want him in the house. He wants to be in the house. But you would really like to rinse the mud off him before he tracks it through the house. So you say, “wait on the porch for just a minute” You fetch some water and rinse him off, wrap him in a towel and carry him into the house and upstairs to the bathtub.

That is a very poor example of what purgatory is like. It isn’t a “second chance” it isn’t an “in between” place. The child doesn’t have to be “forgiven” before he is let in the house. He just needs a little cleaning up.

Here is a text that might help:

I Corinthians 3:10-15 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth therupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abid which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Notice that even if the man’s work isn’t up to snuff, he will be save but his work will be burned up when it is tried in the fire. That is what happens in purgatory.
 
Louemma said:
Thank You so much for your answer.
However,I still desire to know more.By saying that purgatory is a misconception of an in between sentence don’t make sense to me.Purgatory sounds in between to me.I’m sorry but I need a more clear picture or maybe scripture because I don’t understand.I always thought you either went to Heaven or Hell and Purgatory was never in my belief so you see to me it sounds in between.Also I do realize that Purgatory is intended for those bound for heaven.I understand that part.
Click to expand...
Purgatory is just you getting purified of all stain or attachment to sin, self, etc… In order to be fully united with God, you must be fully pure. You still stumble and sin occasionally, no? Even that tendency will be perfected before you can fully be united with heaven.

The word Purgatory means to “purge”. It is simply an occasion of purification.
 
Then since there is not one of us that is without sin,would it be safe to assume we will all be purged?
Another question if I may,.If someone dies in a state of committing a sin,the sin that caused their death but not on purpose,do these people go to purgatory?For how long?Days or months,years or do we pray for them.Is prayer the only release for souls in purgatory?
 
Louemma said:
Then since there is not one of us that is without sin,would it be safe to assume we will all be purged?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Another question if I may,.If someone dies in a state of committing a sin,the sin that caused their death but not on purpose,do these people go to purgatory?For how long?Days or months,years or do we pray for them.Is prayer the only release for souls in purgatory?
Click to expand...
Frankly no one can tell how long someone will be “in purgatory” nor is there any reason to try and figure it.
Once someone dies they leave the realm of time so there is really no way to equate the act of purgation with a time frame.

The best thing to do is to recognize that there are defects (sins) that can send us directly to hell nad there are defects that will require purging or perfecting before we enter into heaven.
All of this is based upon the Law of Love (The two great commandments).
Those who Love God and neighbor most perfectly will enter Heaven immediately.
Those who Love God and neighbor less perfectly will enter purgatory and then heaven
Those who Fail to Love God and neighbor will be condemned to Hell by their own decision.

Peace
James
 
There is so very little scripture concerning purgatory.I know that in the after life there is no time frame so:blush:guess I forgot.
I believe a child of God naturally loves the Father,so I’m not speaking of those who die in a lost state.Those that die without the Lord.
It just seems to me that if purging(Purgatory) is necessary then Jesus dying on the cross was not enough?
The word says Jesus paid for our sins in full,in other words “We are bought with a price”
So since none are without sin and we are all purged of sin I do have one more question.
If Sin is in the flesh and my spirit leaves my body to go be with the Lord then what is there to purge?My spirit?Because sin is in the flesh.
See I can not grasp the concept that Jesus on the Cross did not pay our sins in full.Sins that we have because we are in the flesh and sin is in the flesh.:shrug:I’m not believing in Purgatory but I could be wrong and if I’m wrong I need to be finding out by asking.
 
Louemma said:
There is so very little scripture concerning purgatory.I know that in the after life there is no time frame so:blush:guess I forgot.
I believe a child of God naturally loves the Father,so I’m not speaking of those who die in a lost state.Those that die without the Lord.
It just seems to me that if purging(Purgatory) is necessary then Jesus dying on the cross was not enough?
Click to expand...
In that case, why do we still sin here on earth? Why are we still attached to sin here on earth?

Something must change when we die, or else we would continue to sin in heaven, and be attached to sin in heaven. That “something” is God’s final mercy to those who are saved, and we give it the name Purgatory. It is simply the process whereby God finishes the job of perfection, of sanctification, of purification that we should have been doing here on earth, but that few of us finish.

The reason Purgatory is associated with pain and suffering is simply because giving up sin and attachment to sin causes pain and suffering. It hurts to give up sin and attachment to sin. It is hard. Just like it hurts to lose weight or give up smoking or give up any other bad habit.
The word says Jesus paid for our sins in full,in other words “We are bought with a price”
So since none are without sin and we are all purged of sin I do have one more question.
If Sin is in the flesh and my spirit leaves my body to go be with the Lord then what is there to purge?My spirit?Because sin is in the flesh.
Click to expand...
And yet 1/3 of the angels, who are pure spirit, sinned gravely against God.
 
Louemma:

Not everyone spends “time” in purgatory. The saints do not spend time in purgatory, but few of us are saints. Time in terms of purgatory is also an oxymoron, because purgatory, like heaven and hell exist outside of time and space as we know it.

Think of sin terms of nails and wood. Suppose each sin I committ is a nail being hammered into the two by four of my life. I repent and confess my sin. God forgives me and pulls the nail out of my life. No more nail. Alas and alack, there is still a hole where the nail used to be. That hole is the termporal result of my sin. I have been forgiven, that sin willl not keep me out of heaven, but there is still an ugly gaping hole where the nail used to be. Purgatory fills in the hole.

Now, here is the good news . . . that hole can be filled in now during your life time. This is done by indulgences (plenary and partial) and through the suffering that is so often our lot here on earth. If the holes are filled here and now, then no visit to purgatory.
 
Louemma said:
There is so very little scripture concerning purgatory.I know that in the after life there is no time frame so:blush:guess I forgot.
Click to expand...
No problem - Just didn’t want you getting hung up on unimportant details.
I believe a child of God naturally loves the Father,so I’m not speaking of those who die in a lost state.Those that die without the Lord. It just seems to me that if purging(Purgatory) is necessary then Jesus dying on the cross was not enough?
Click to expand...
Understood, but rmember that the journey to God is just that - a journey. From the time that we accept Jesus we are a “work in progress”. During our lifetime we seek to become more like Him, purging ourselves of our sinful habits and tendencies. If we die before we have achieved this goal, of becoming perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect, then God will perfect as with fire.
The word says Jesus paid for our sins in full,in other words “We are bought with a price”
So since none are without sin and we are all purged of sin I do have one more question.
If Sin is in the flesh and my spirit leaves my body to go be with the Lord then what is there to purge?My spirit?Because sin is in the flesh.
See I can not grasp the concept that Jesus on the Cross did not pay our sins in full.Sins that we have because we are in the flesh and sin is in the flesh.:shrug:I’m not believing in Purgatory but I could be wrong and if I’m wrong I need to be finding out by asking.
Click to expand...
Not sure if this will help or not, but let me ask you if you feel that Christ’s death should excuse you from paying for the sins that you commit. For instance if you broke a lamp and someone else took the blame and was fully punished for it would you not feel a need to own up to the “sin” and take your punishment?
Similar thing here.

Peace
James
 
Louemma,

You are unable to understand the concept because you have a different understanding of salvation.

You are looking at it from a legal standpoint.

We look at it from the standpoint of a divorce from the family of God that Jesus repaired.

He made it possible to obtain heaven, but only by abiding in Him, and Him in us. He transforms us into someone worthy of the Father. We are incapable of pleasing Him.

Our “works” as you call them, are attempts at mortifying the body and removing all attachments to worldly things and tendencies that are displeasing to God. And the more it hurts, the better it is for our souls. God fills up the void.

When we pass this life, God will be looking at all that resembles His Son. Anything else will be burnt to nothing in His Love. All that is not of God (Jesus, that is), will be “burned away”. The “burning away” is the concept of purgatory. All that will survive is what comes from Christ Himself. That is why it is so important to do His Will.

I know this sounds much more difficult than your Protestant upbringing has taught you. But, quite frankly, the difficulties of life only make sense in the light of Catholic teaching.
 
Louemma said:
There is so very little scripture concerning purgatory.

The word says Jesus paid for our sins in full
Click to expand...
I think you have some good responses, but here’s more food for thought. Anything in Scripture that speaks of people who are already God’s children needing to become more pure is a reference to purgation.

Take Hebrews 12:7-10, for example. In the passage, we are taught that God disciplines His “sons.” Those are people already in His family. This is done for the purpose of their “holiness” (v. 10). Why, if God’s sons don’t need further purification, would God have need to make them more pure?

Make no mistake, the work applied in purification is by the power of the Cross. This is not purgatory “instead” of Christ’s work, or that Christ’s work was insufficient. This is still the grace released by His Passion at work.
 
Louemma said:
time frame
Click to expand...
Regarding “time” in Purgatory, here is what our current Pope wrote in His book, Eschatology:*
"The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter [purgatory] cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of ‘short’ or ‘long’ duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The ‘temporal measure’ of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an ‘existential time,’ in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world.
. . .
"[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints.
. . .
“Encounter with the Lord is this transformation.”
…
Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231*When concepts of “time” are used to describe “sequence”, it does not necessarily mean time as we know it. Think of how Scripture will refer to heaven “above”. But is that preposition a physical reality or metaphysical? When we describe Purgatory, we are limited to analogies of human experience.
 
Saint Paul in Colossians 2:24 says that he is filling up in his suffering what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ.
I guess this would mean that Christ death did for us what we cannot do, but there is still something that we can do?

It makes more sense in my head.
 
Louemma said:
Please bear with me as I ask more question regarding the Catholic beliefs.🙂
I do not know much of anything on the subject of purgatory.I will tell you what I do know so maybe someone could please lead me to a better understanding.
Purgatory is a place were someone goes at death.Purgatory is a place only reserved for those who are not completely lost to hell but are not refined enough(pure enough) for entering into Paradise.
I also believe that the Catholic faith is the only christian belief that teaches purgatory.I also know that I was taught that this was a false teaching.
What if it’s not?What if there is a place such as purgatory and I am over looking scripture in the word of God explaining purgatory.Now I know that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life or at the judgement.
This leaves one with the ideal that sin can be forgiven at the judgement.So is this where the Purgatory teaching comes from?
If Purgatory is real then my understanding is that, there are prayers that one can pray on behalf of one who may be in purgatory?
If this is true,then just who is it that can end up in purgatory?
Thank you ahead of time for your patience with one who knows hardly a thing about the Catholic belief:blush:
Click to expand...
Louemma-

I appreciate your honest interest in this doctrine. If you don’t mind doing a bit of reading, I think you’ll find the following helpful:

Articles on Purgatory

Purgatory
catholic.com/library/purgatory.asp

Purgatory
By Rev. William G. Most
catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9204chap.asp

**PURGATORY IN ALL BUT NAME **
By W. ROBERT ANFILL
catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9801fea2.asp

Is Purgatory Found in the Bible?
By Christine Pinheiro and Kenneth J. Howell
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0511sbs.asp

Purgatory? Where Is That in the Bible?
By Mark P. Shea
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0103fea2.asp
Explaining Purgatory from a New Testament Perspectiveby Victor R. Claveau
freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2033423/posts

How to Argue the Existence of Purgatory
By Jason Evert
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010sbs.asp

How to Explain Purgatory to Protestants
by James Akin
ewtn.com/library/answers/how2purg.htm
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top