Purgatory......

[tweetymom]

So every one, Tweety, our loving Catholic dissident at Catholic Answers, does not believe in Purgatory along with a whole lot of other Christian Doctrine, in the end it is not going to matter really if she believes it to be Truth or not because she is going to have to experience it anyway, just as we all will if our hearts are not completely purified at our last breath. And if we don’t watch out the time we have to spend getting it purified , so as to be with the Father forever, may take until the second coming of our Sweet Lord Jesus Christ.So you better be good Tweet and start following and believing all the revelation Jesus gave to his Church. You will be ever so enlightened if along with the New Testament , which the Church gave to us,you give the CCC a good read, you will, perhaps, learn to understand better the full Truth.

Only the pure in heart will see the face of God.
See the Beatitudes in Matthew 5.
Peace, and God bless, Carlan

You are right I do not believe in purgatory among a few other things. Thank you maamI believe that I am good.

 

[adrift]

]

Poor,poor misguided rinnie! When Paul was persecuting Christians, the Way was not yet known as the cc

Those Christians were Catholics. The Way is what the Church was known as but that Church was still the Catholic Church. Shakespeare comes to mind. A rose by any other name is still a rose. No matter what are Church is called it is still the Church that Jesus established and protects. “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it” Along with the Eastern Church, there is no other that can be traced from Jesus to today.

 

[adrift]

right my love. God bless you tweey. And by the way your husband is in my prayers daily. I pray he is still well.

:amen:

 

[adrift]

He was destroying Christ’s church of all believers. If it was called Catholic, why didn’t he say so?

Jesus didn’t say they should be called Christians either or The Way. We don’t know all that He told the Apostles. The Gospel tells us that this would not have been possible. What He did tell us was that He was leaving a living Church that would take care of us.

 

[adrift]

Sorry. I don’t find anything like Purgatory promised to Christians anywhere. Does the Church have the power to release souls from purg. or not?

Than you have not read the many links provided here. Go back an reread and you will find it. I thought I answered this. NO the Church does not have that power. The question shows a lack of understanding about purgatory.

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030
All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031
The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

      As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

1032
This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

      Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

 

[MuddyRocker]

If God thought we needed a place like purgatory for cleansing, then why would he allow Jesus to die for us? Why not just send everyone to purgatory after they die?

 

[1beleevr]

Tweets. I agree the whole bible if for all. I never disagreed with you on that. The Catholic Church is for all. Thats why its the First church and it universal for all. No one is denied access to it. The CC gave you the bible remember Tweety.

Sure God told the Church what to say, but the Church wrote it down and shared it with all.

Why don’t you come on over some day and visit us. We would love you have you. Bring 1b with you. All are welcome.

But just because I like you Tweet, I have to defend my faith. I hope you can understand. No hard feelings?:hug3:

]

You are allowing “cafeteria” catholics these days?

 

[1beleevr]

{

You are not saved. The Church was founded as the Way to the Father. As far as being exclusive, Jesus said that the road to perdition was wide while the road to heave was narrow.

Crude talk never enhances an argument but rather looses it no matter how righteous the argument might be.

]

Arrogance, thy name is adrift Now you know whether people you never met are or aren’t saved? And Jesus provided a way for us to approach the Father)God) and confess our sins!1John1:9! And you seem to have lost your sense of humor

 

[1beleevr]

Those Christians were Catholics. The Way is what the Church was known as but that Church was still the Catholic Church. Shakespeare comes to mind. A rose by any other name is still a rose. No matter what are Church is called it is still the Church that Jesus established and protects. “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it” Along with the Eastern Church, there is no other that can be traced from Jesus to today.

]

Maybe and maybe not!

 

[1beleevr]

Generalization usually fall flat of the truth as does yours. Most Catholics on this forum are charitable a few or not. Just like most of other faiths that come here are charitable and than there are a few that give non-Catholics a black mark.

]

My experience with catholics, both on this forum, and on the streets is about 40% charitable and 60% not! But you are right; there are equally rude people in the noncatholic world too!

 

[1beleevr]

I guess you forgot so I will remind you. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament. circumcision was the symbol of that covenant. Jesus’ covenant is with Baptism fulfilling and completing what circumcision was. Circumcision was replace by baptism. Paul was telling the Galatians that they were no longer under the old covenant. It says nothing about the new. Neither does Romans deny what I have said about baptism. In fact, it substantiates it.

No I do not see Christ as the Rock Moses struck. It is interesting but it is an interpretation. Can you provide a scripture that says that? Go back through the thread and all the references provided that Jesus gives the power to forgive sins to the Apostles. You have a misunderstanding of what the Bible is. There is a Catholic Catechism on line that will give you the best understanding.

]

And yet we believe our Saviour, who spoke in parables, and used symbols!

 

[adrift]

{]

Arrogance, thy name is adrift Now you know whether people you never met are or aren’t saved? And Jesus provided a way for us to approach the Father)God) and confess our sins!1John1:9! And you seem to have lost your sense of humor

Until you die there is no assurance of being saved. Paul said that we work out our salvation in fear and trembling. If our salvation was assured, he would not have said that. The arrogance is to those who say I am saved.

If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.

Note we must acknowledge our sins. How do we do that? Jesus provided the answer who sins you forgive will be forgiven. Who sins you retain will be retained. This thread is about purgatory not confession. Do a search and you will find threads on that subject.

That was not humor it was insulting.

 

[rinnie]

]

You are allowing “cafeteria” catholics these days?

Sure All is welcome! I could have my husband even come pick you up on his motorcycle But not for awhile where we are. A snowmobile maybe

But the RCC is open to the World. Once you get to know us, you will actually LOVE US. Ask Tweety I am even beginning to grow on her. We’re buds now. Me and Tweet like you and I lb see that we have alot in common too. And thats a good thing.

Let me know about the bike ride

 

[1beleevr]

Until you die there is no assurance of being saved. Paul said that we work out our salvation in fear and trembling. If our salvation was assured, he would not have said that. The arrogance is to those who say I am saved.

Note we must acknowledge our sins. How do we do that? Jesus provided the answer who sins you forgive will be forgiven. Who sins you retain will be retained. This thread is about purgatory not confession. Do a search and you will find threads on that subject.

That was not humor it was insulting.

]

I wonder why scripture says,“All who call upon the Lord, will be saved!”? and John 3:16? And numerous other verses? I know this thread is about purgatory, but like most other threads, we tend to make lateral moves into other topics, whether related or not! And you cannot prove that it is not okay to confess our sins to God as 1John 1:9 says! Part of being closer to Christ(you know having a personal relationship with Him) is acknowledging our sins, many times even before we commit them! And as for purgatory, not enough evidence for it, has been presented. Too many verses do not apply

 

[adrift]

]

I wonder why scripture says,“All who call upon the Lord, will be saved!”? and John 3:16? And numerous other verses? I know this thread is about purgatory, but like most other threads, we tend to make lateral moves into other topics, whether related or not! And you cannot prove that it is not okay to confess our sins to God as 1John 1:9 says! Part of being closer to Christ(you know having a personal relationship with Him) is acknowledging our sins, many times even before we commit them! And as for purgatory, not enough evidence for it, has been presented. Too many verses do not apply

Not Everyone Who Says “Lord, Lord” Will Enter the Kingdom
Matthew 7:21-23

You have made a straw man. I haven’t said that you can’t confess to God. You do when you go to confession. 1 John 1:9 does not say how you confess. The Church teaches that you can make a perfect contrition.

Catholic teaching distinguishes a twofold hatred of sin; one, perfect contrition, rises from the love of God Who has been grievously offended; the other, imperfect contrition, arises principally from some other motives, such as loss of heaven, fear of hell, the heinousness of sin, etc.

This is still a thread about purgatory. It is just rubbish to say not enough evidence and that verses don’t apply. I could say the same about the beliefs you have presented.

 

[coosa]

I get vauge answers to whether the RCC has the power to release souls from purgatory.
I have recently given St. Judes Hospital a donation and noted it as a gift from St. Francis Catholic church whom I have dear friends that belong. I am reluctant to give money directly to the RCC because so much is being spend on lawyers. Will my gift be counted in the Treasury of Merit to help my beloved escape the state of limbo they might find themselves in.

 

[Bill_Pick]

]

Bravo, bravo! That is what we have been saying all along; that Jesus did not call His church, including us noncatholics, catholic!

D o you know what Jesus is saying in the word CATHLOIC

 

[adrift]

I get vauge answers to whether the RCC has the power to release souls from purgatory.
I have recently given St. Judes Hospital a donation and noted it as a gift from St. Francis Catholic church whom I have dear friends that belong. I am reluctant to give money directly to the RCC because so much is being spend on lawyers. Will my gift be counted in the Treasury of Merit to help my beloved escape the state of limbo they might find themselves in.

Vague answer:banghead: How is a NO a vague answer. Did you read my answer??? Please go back and read it. I am going to answer your question simply. NO

 

[Carlan]

You are right I do not believe in purgatory among a few other things. Thank you maamI believe that I am good.

Well , Tweety , if you agree I am right that you do not believe most Catholic doctrine, why stay in this non-Catholic forum witnessing to visitors your lies about the Apostolic Church. you are not here as a true witness to Jesus Christ and his Church when all you do is condone error and give false witness. That is what your so called evangelizing is doing,you want to give false witness ?:sad_yes::tsktsk::yawn::sad_bye:why not go where it will do the most good , to one of our separated brethren web sites. We do not appreciate you claiming to be Catholic and not believing and insulting us by teaching error.:sad_bye:
Carlan

 

[Carlan]

Than you have not read the many links provided here. Go back an reread and you will find it. I thought I answered this. NO the Church does not have that power. The question shows a lack of understanding about purgatory.

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030
All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031
The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

1032
This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

Thank you Adrift. :thumbsupeace, Carlan