Purgatory......

[tweetymom]

tweetymom;6405861:

Tweety a baby did not have to repent. Mt 28:19 The baptism of Jesus’ disciples have been administering since he spoke those words, into the Masters own Baptism into the reality that he anticipated by means of it. That is the way to become a Christian.

It was by the Baptism of Jesus that heaven was torn open, that the spirit came down upon him like a dove and in the midst of all this voice from heaven came down. That was the transfiguration of Jesus. His communion of the will with the Father is the fulfillment of all righteousness opens heaven.

Do you disagree with the teachings of the Church that by the sin of adam and eve we are all born into Original sin? We do not have to repent original sin, we are not responsible for it, We only have to repent actual sin. Babys at the time of the Apostles were only a result of OS same as today. But we as adults are responsible to repent actual sin today the same as the early Apostles. If we were baptised as adults back then yes we would repent first actual sin, Do you thi nk adults back then had not actual sin, only original as a baby?

I think when we are baptisedwe have to be repentented

 

[rinnie]

rinnie;6406041:

I think when we are baptisedwe have to be repentented

Well I understand tweety, but scripture and Apostolic teaching disagrees with you.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard Kastner;6405352:

Romans6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Okay first of all where does scripture say FULL IMMERSION is the only valid Baptsim.

It doesn’t specifically say full immersion, but is strongly inferred. First of all the word baptism itself means “to plunge under”. Second, did you bother to read Romans 6:3-8 posted above. these verses are rendered meaningless without full immersion.
Third in Jn.3:23 we read 23And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Why would John need “much water” if he were just going to sprinkle people.
Fourth, in Acts 8we read 27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

In these verses we see Philip explaining Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian Eunuch v. 37 tells us the reason for baptism 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, **I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. **
The reason for baptism is to tell the world that we are now a child of God in Jesus Christ. Our sins have already been forgiven when we are baptised.

Next you say Baptism is not for forgiveness of sins Mark 1:4 contradicts you.

Here is Mark 1:4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. You say this contradicts me. Well, I disagree. This absolutely confirms everythig I have been saying. God forgives our sins when and only when we repent accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Baptism is the announcement of that acceptence.

Third if baptist is only for adults why does scripture again contradict you. Why in acts 2:37 does it say repent and be baptised EVERYONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ fro the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the holy spirit. For this promise is made to YOU and YOUR CHILDREN. (again scripture contradicts you)

Here’s Acts 2:36-39 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

What promise is Peter talking about here? Well, it’s v. 36 That God has made Jesus Lord and Christ and this promise is made to every person that ever has lived or ever will live. Does that mean that babies can be baptised? Of coarse not. Because in order to be baptised we need to answer Philip the same way the eunuch did. 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. A baby just cannot do that.

 

[tweetymom]

tweetymom;6406126:

Well I understand tweety, but scripture and Apostolic teaching disagrees with you.

It does? Act 2:38

 

[tweetymom]

rinnie;6405822:

It doesn’t specifically say full immersion, but is strongly inferred. First of all the word baptism itself means “to plunge under”. Second, did you bother to read Romans 6:3-8 posted above. these verses are rendered meaningless without full immersion.
Third in Jn.3:23 we read 23And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Why would John need “much water” if he were just going to sprinkle people.
Fourth, in Acts 8we read 27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

In these verses we see Philip explaining Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian Eunuch v. 37 tells us the reason for baptism 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, **I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. **

The reason for baptism is to tell the world that we are now a child of God in Jesus Christ. Our sins have already been forgiven when we are baptised.

Here is Mark 1:4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. You say this contradicts me. Well, I disagree. This absolutely confirms everythig I have been saying. God forgives our sins when and only when we repent accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Baptism is the announcement of that acceptence.

Here’s Acts 2:36-39 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

What promise is Peter talking about here? Well, it’s v. 36 That God has made Jesus Lord and Christ and this promise is made to every person that ever has lived or ever will live. Does that mean that babies can be baptised? Of coarse not. Because in order to be baptised we need to answer Philip the same way the eunuch did. 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. A baby just cannot do that.

Sorry I din’t read your post before I posted. Great post brother.

 

[adrift]

rinnie;6405822:

It doesn’t specifically say full immersion, but is strongly inferred.

Baptism also means to wash. We are washed clean of our sins. The bible refers to whole households being baptized nowhere is there mentioned an exception of babies. What is forgotten is Jesus’ words I have not come to change the Law but to fulfill it. Baptism is the fulfillment of circumcision. It replaced it. Circumcision made boys members of the Jewish community. So to does Baptism makes us children of God and members of His family.

Sprinkling was used as well as immersion. At Pentecost, 3000 were baptized in Jerusalem. There is only one source of water a spring,Gihon spring. It is highly unlikely that they were baptized by full immersion.

 

[1beleevr]

Richard Kastner;6407076:

Baptism also means to wash. We are washed clean of our sins. The bible refers to whole households being baptized nowhere is there mentioned an exception of babies. What is forgotten is Jesus’ words I have not come to change the Law but to fulfill it. Baptism is the fulfillment of circumcision. It replaced it. Circumcision made boys members of the Jewish community. So to does Baptism makes us children of God and members of His family.

Sprinkling was used as well as immersion. At Pentecost, 3000 were baptized in Jerusalem. There is only one source of water a spring,Gihon spring. It is highly unlikely that they were baptized by full immersion.

Jesus’s strongest attribute was obedience! It was because of this that we are able to be saved from eternal damnation! And, I for one believe that He got baptized as a sign of that obedience; likewise we do!I believe also that baptism seals your salvation, it is a public declaration that you have repented and chosen to follow Jesus! Can anyone prove without a doubt that Jesus was not immersed?

 

[1beleevr]

rinnie;6405822:

It doesn’t specifically say full immersion, but is strongly inferred. First of all the word baptism itself means “to plunge under”. Second, did you bother to read Romans 6:3-8 posted above. these verses are rendered meaningless without full immersion.
Third in Jn.3:23 we read 23And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Why would John need “much water” if he were just going to sprinkle people.
Fourth, in Acts 8we read 27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

In these verses we see Philip explaining Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian Eunuch v. 37 tells us the reason for baptism 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, **I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. **

The reason for baptism is to tell the world that we are now a child of God in Jesus Christ. Our sins have already been forgiven when we are baptised.

Here is Mark 1:4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. You say this contradicts me. Well, I disagree. This absolutely confirms everythig I have been saying. God forgives our sins when and only when we repent accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Baptism is the announcement of that acceptence.

Here’s Acts 2:36-39 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

What promise is Peter talking about here? Well, it’s v. 36 That God has made Jesus Lord and Christ and this promise is made to every person that ever has lived or ever will live. Does that mean that babies can be baptised? Of coarse not. Because in order to be baptised we need to answer Philip the same way the eunuch did. 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. A baby just cannot do that.

Any chance that Acts 2:39, could have meant that your children when of age could share in the same promise of salvation? I can’t get the point of baptizing infants from reading this verse as is! Now if I took it out of context, as the early church fathers did, perhaps

 

[1beleevr]

Richard Kastner;6405352:

I believe you are right when you say: “The key to understanding Jesus’ answer is how we understand the word righeousness.”
In Jeramiah 23:6 we read: 6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jesus altho sinless decided to be baptised to fulfill OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. He knew that there would be people that for some reason or another could not be baptised (ie. the thief on the cross). So He being our propitiation in all things was baptised for them. Baptism however does not take away sins. If that were the case there would have been no need for the cross. What baptism is, is basically an anouncement that the one being baptised has accepted Jesus as thier Lord and Savior and have repented of thier sins. It is this acceptance and repentance that allows the candidate to be forgiven. The baptismal rite is important also in it’s symbolism.

Romans6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

When we are plunged under the waters of baptism, we are accepting His death in place of our death, and when we come up from the water (grave) we accept Jesus’ resurrection as ours and therefore walk in newness of life. This symbolism is the reason that the only valid form of baptim is total immersion. And because baptism is an act of faith only those old enough to accept Christ in faith are capable of being baptised.[/QUO

Okay first of all where does scripture say FULL IMMERSION is the only valid Baptsim.

Next you say Baptism is not for forgiveness of sins Mark 1:4 contradicts you.

Third if baptist is only for adults why does scripture again contradict you. Why in acts 2:37 does it say repent and be baptised EVERYONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ fro the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the holy spirit. For this promise is made to YOU and YOUR CHILDREN. (again scripture contradicts you)

I’d say that Romans 6:4, is a good argument for full immersion baptism; because when you are buried, you are under something! And I don’t see baptism as washing!Your sins were washed away nby the Blood of Jesus!

[/quote]

 

[adrift]

I believe you are right when you say: “The key to understanding Jesus’ answer is how we understand the word righeousness.”
In Jeramiah 23:6 we read: 6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jesus altho sinless decided to be baptised to fulfill OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. He knew that there would be people that for some reason or another could not be baptised (ie. the thief on the cross). So He being our propitiation in all things was baptised for them.

I see no scripture that would substantiate that Jesus was baptized for others. Jesus was baptized in obedience to His Father. It was the beginning of His Crucifixion. As He was baptized He took on the sins of all of us. All were to be baptized Jesus said. What He didn’t say except for those I stood in for.

Baptism however does not take away sins. If that were the case there would have been no need for the cross.

Acts 2

"Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;

1 CO 10

I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea,

and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

Paul saw the passage through the Red Sea as a foretelling of Baptism. Just as the Jewish people were delivered through the sea so to are we delivered from our sins through Baptism.

The Didache 7, 3 tells us that if total immersion was not possible that sprinkling was used.

 

[adrift]

adrift;6407282:

Jesus’s strongest attribute was obedience! It was because of this that we are able to be saved from eternal damnation! And, I for one believe that He got baptized as a sign of that obedience; likewise we do!I believe also that baptism seals your salvation, it is a public declaration that you have repented and chosen to follow Jesus! Can anyone prove without a doubt that Jesus was not immersed?

Can you prove that He was?

Catholic answers have a tract It discusses this completely. The thread is not about Baptism. So further discussion should be taken to another thread, please.

 

[1beleevr]

1beleevr;6407360:

Can you prove that He was?

Catholic answers have a tract

It discusses this completely. The thread is not about Baptism. So further discussion should be taken to another thread, please.

So is it a draw? You can’t prove He wasn’t, and I can;'t definitively prove that He was! But if you read Romans 6:4, it would make sense that Jesus was immersed as should we be!

 

[adrift]

adrift;6407467:

So is it a draw? You can’t prove He wasn’t, and I can;'t definitively prove that He was! But if you read Romans 6:4, it would make sense that Jesus was immersed as should we be!

Not really. If you are speaking of His baptism, then it would make no sense. If you are speaking of His crucifixion, you have more of a point but barely. I am not saying that immersion didn’t take place. I am saying that it was not the only way baptism was performed. That is an historical fact. The early Christians, that is those who lived within fifty years of Jesus’ death did not insist on immersion.
Now please let us get back to the topic of Purgatory.

 

[rinnie]

rinnie;6405822:

It doesn’t specifically say full immersion, but is strongly inferred. First of all the word baptism itself means “to plunge under”. Second, did you bother to read Romans 6:3-8 posted above. these verses are rendered meaningless without full immersion.
Third in Jn.3:23 we read 23And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Why would John need “much water” if he were just going to sprinkle people.
Fourth, in Acts 8we read 27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

In these verses we see Philip explaining Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian Eunuch v. 37 tells us the reason for baptism 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, **I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. **

The reason for baptism is to tell the world that we are now a child of God in Jesus Christ. Our sins have already been forgiven when we are baptised.

Here is Mark 1:4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. You say this contradicts me. Well, I disagree. This absolutely confirms everythig I have been saying. God forgives our sins when and only when we repent accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Baptism is the announcement of that acceptence.

Here’s Acts 2:36-39 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

What promise is Peter talking about here? Well, it’s v. 36 That God has made Jesus Lord and Christ and this promise is made to every person that ever has lived or ever will live. Does that mean that babies can be baptised? Of coarse not. Because in order to be baptised we need to answer Philip the same way the eunuch did. 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. A baby just cannot do that.

How do you know? Does God not know the heart and soul of all. Why does Jesus say in order to enter the kingdom of heaven you must be like a child? Why does the gospel say the kingdom of heaven is for children, Why did Jesus say do not hinder the children let them come to me?

 

[rinnie]

Richard Kastner;6407076:

Any chance that Acts 2:39, could have meant that your children when of age could share in the same promise of salvation? I can’t get the point of baptizing infants from reading this verse as is! Now if I took it out of context, as the early church fathers did, perhaps

Nope not a chance. You read it the same as I. ALL we baptised that day. If Children were not to be baptised it would state it in scripture or ST. If Jesus only wanted adults to be baptised and baptisim is needed to enter heaven why would God hinder Children to be baptised on this earth. Why did Jesus say when the Children were comming let the Children come to me?

Now tell me this, the early fathers of the Church have tradtition, that means they had this teaching passed down by them by mouth from the previous Apostles. Now why would the early Apostles say that they baptised babys and then say different in scripture that is written?

Here is another thing, Circumcision, why were children circumcised in the O.T and Jesus replaced it in the N.T. with Baptism. Why would God forbid it in the N.T. but demand it in the O.T.? Makes no sense to me. Was that not the same meaning to seal your heart with Chirst. Was that not done at birth in the O.T. Whats the difference between a childs state of mind in the O.T. and the N.T. Unless you deny that they meant the same thing. A babys is a baby correct?

Here is another question I have. Just curious. Did not all scripture come from the MOUTH of the Early Fathers of the CHurch? What I am asking is was not all scripture oral for like the first 400 years or so? So if you don’t trust the teachings of the early fathers now, why trust them then? I mean if they are capable of lying about ST why not SS?

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

I believe you are right when you say: “The key to understanding Jesus’ answer is how we understand the word righeousness.”
In Jeramiah 23:6 we read: 6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jesus altho sinless decided to be baptised to fulfill OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. He knew that there would be people that for some reason or another could not be baptised (ie. the thief on the cross). So He being our propitiation in all things was baptised for them. [SIGN]Baptism however does not take away sins[/SIGN]. If that were the case there would have been no need for the cross. What baptism is, is basically an anouncement that the one being baptised has accepted Jesus as thier Lord and Savior and have repented of thier sins. It is this acceptance and repentance that allows the candidate to be forgiven. The baptismal rite is important also in it’s symbolism.

Romans6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

When we are plunged under the waters of baptism, we are accepting His death in place of our death, and when we come up from the water (grave) we accept Jesus’ resurrection as ours and therefore walk in newness of life. This symbolism is the reason that the only valid form of baptim is total immersion. And because baptism is an act of faith only those old enough to accept Christ in faith are capable of being baptised.

Then why does SS and ST teach us that. One baptism for forgiveness of sins, Do you believe then that a child is not brought into this world with sin?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Then why does SS and ST teach us that. One baptism for forgiveness of sins, Do you believe then that a child is not brought into this world with sin?

rinnie, Why did Jesus come into this world?

 

[Bill_Pick]

1beleevr;6407381:

Nope not a chance. You read it the same as I. ALL we baptised that day. If Children were not to be baptised it would state it in scripture or ST. If Jesus only wanted adults to be baptised and baptisim is needed to enter heaven why would God hinder Children to be baptised on this earth. Why did Jesus say when the Children were comming let the Children come to me?

Now tell me this, the early fathers of the Church have tradtition, that means they had this teaching passed down by them by mouth from the previous Apostles. Now why would the early Apostles say that they baptised babys and then say different in scripture that is written?

Here is another thing, Circumcision, why were children circumcised in the O.T and Jesus replaced it in the N.T. with Baptism. Why would God forbid it in the N.T. but demand it in the O.T.? Makes no sense to me. Was that not the same meaning to seal your heart with Chirst. Was that not done at birth in the O.T. Whats the difference between a childs state of mind in the O.T. and the N.T. Unless you deny that they meant the same thing. A babys is a baby correct?

Here is another question I have. Just curious. Did not all scripture come from the MOUTH of the Early Fathers of the CHurch? What I am asking is was not all scripture oral for like the first

A+

 

[1beleevr]

rinnie;6409311:

1beleevr;6407381:

Nope not a chance. You read it the same as I. ALL we baptised that day. If Children were not to be baptised it would state it in scripture or ST. If Jesus only wanted adults to be baptised and baptisim is needed to enter heaven why would God hinder Children to be baptised on this earth. Why did Jesus say when the Children were comming let the Children come to me?

Now tell me this, the early fathers of the Church have tradtition, that means they had this teaching passed down by them by mouth from the previous Apostles. Now why would the early Apostles say that they baptised babys and then say different in scripture that is written?

Here is another thing, Circumcision, why were children circumcised in the O.T and Jesus replaced it in the N.T. with Baptism. Why would God forbid it in the N.T. but demand it in the O.T.? Makes no sense to me. Was that not the same meaning to seal your heart with Chirst. Was that not done at birth in the O.T. Whats the difference between a childs state of mind in the O.T. and the N.T. Unless you deny that they meant the same thing. A babys is a baby correct?

Here is another question I have. Just curious. Did not all scripture come from the MOUTH of the Early Fathers of the CHurch? What I am asking is was not all scripture oral for like the first

A+

Not sure if ALL scripture came from the mouths of the early church fathersCircumcision was done as part of God’s covenant with the Jews.Do children in the catholic church get baptized at eight days, as is the custom for circumcision? Do you seriously believe that a baby has a state of mine, Billy? Do you think they are cognizant of what’s happening to them when they are sprinkled? If the Blood of Christ washes way sin, and the child does not know Christ, can you really say that they re saved? Let’s say they get baptized(sprinkled at 2 years old, and begin a lifelong sin campaign, are they saved?

 

[1beleevr]

rinnie, Why did Jesus come into this world?

Good question, Richard!