Purgatory.....

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Ok this might sound strange… but purgatory is not biblical… I mean Jesus paid the price for ALL of our sins when He died on the cross… He paid the price in FUll=completely/totally. And His blood covers all of our sins… right?

When God the Father looks at us He only sees the blood and rightouness of Jesus. He dosen’t see us-our own rightousness. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. James 2 means that IF we have saving faith in Jesus THEN we will have works=that faith will produce works, but works don’t save or justify us.

You know what I mean?

We need to read the book of Hebrews… It said that Christ died once for All of our sins and He purged us allready.

That’s my understanding and point of view of all that…

Thanks…
 
What is that all about???
You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light*, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.
 
Here’s something to chew on in a 101 apologetics style. Its a free download. Scroll down to Mary and the Bible; Purgatory and the bible. The other downloads are excellent and answer questions from the bible without the Pope and CCC references that turn off sola scriptura types that want us to put our money in their basket.

biblechristiansociety.com/download
 
A young man robs a bank of many thousands of dollars in his youth. He manages to get away with it, and for many years lives as a successful criminal. Later in life, he has a change of heart, and feels true remorse for what he has done. The man is indeed truly sorry. He makes an appointment with the bank manager, goes down one afternoon, returns the money, explains what happened, and begs forgiveness from the bank manager and all of the staff. He hones up to what he’s done, and he is truly sorry for his crime. Now, let’s say the bank manager genuinely forgives the man… Does that get the man out of having to serve time in jail? (Mind you… he IS forgiven, and the man WOULD eventually get to return to society after his jail term.)

Ponder that, and then consider the Catholic position.
 
Ok this might sound strange… but purgatory is not biblical… I mean Jesus paid the price for ALL of our sins when He died on the cross… He paid the price in FUll=completely/totally. And His blood covers all of our sins… right?

When God the Father looks at us He only sees the blood and rightouness of Jesus. He dosen’t see us-our own rightousness. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. James 2 means that IF we have saving faith in Jesus THEN we will have works=that faith will produce works, but works don’t save or justify us.

You know what I mean?

We need to read the book of Hebrews… It said that Christ died once for All of our sins and He purged us allready.

That’s my understanding and point of view of all that…

Thanks…
Purgatory is entirely biblical and as a Catholic you are required to believe in its existence (It’s a dogma of the faith). If Purgatory does not exist and what God says about simple saying unjust words defiling the soul (I’m paraphrasing) then you would end up in hell for that which is quite cruel for a loving God, don’t you think?

Please read this article:

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
 
What the above poster stated, we must believe in purgatory because it is a dogma of the faith, and is what the Catholic church teaches, and so therefore it is truth. You have down as your religion “Catholic”, but your position is most very Protestant.
 
Ok this might sound strange… but purgatory is not biblical… I mean Jesus paid the price for ALL of our sins when He died on the cross… He paid the price in FUll=completely/totally. And His blood covers all of our sins… right?

When God the Father looks at us He only sees the blood and rightouness of Jesus. He dosen’t see us-our own rightousness. ** We are justified by faith alone**, apart from works. James 2 means that IF we have saving faith in Jesus THEN we will have works=that faith will produce works, but works don’t save or justify us.
You know what I mean?

We need to read the book of Hebrews… It said that Christ died once for All of our sins and He purged us allready.

That’s my understanding and point of view of all that…

Thanks…
*Hi Jason,

I am wondering about what I emphasized. I do not see the two parts about faith saying quite the same thing.

The way I understand it is we are justified by faith but it has to be a faith that produces works.

If it is a faith that does not produce works then I do not see it as being the kind of faith that will save us.

Re: Purgatory…I believe it is the works that faith produces that is the purgatory part…

I hope and pray this makes some sense.
 
Jason do you know what Grace alones means? Does this mean that everything has been accomplished through the death of Our Lord Jesus Christ. If to satisfy the Father, the Son must be put to death does that mean Salvation for us? Jason to put it bluntly you talk like a protestant. The Death of Jesus was God’s way of blessing us. For God the Father to bless the Earth He must do it through the Sacrifice of His Dearly Beloved Son. That means between Him and the Earth is the Cross of His Son. To Bless us He must do this through the Sacrifice of His Son. The Prayers of His Son is made to the Father on behalf of us. His Son pleads for us. The Father then through the Sacrificial Love of His Son will respond to us with Grace. However this does not mean that the Father freely gives this Grace. If God gives freely this Grace then why does He not do it now. God the Father will only give His Grace when He is ask to. This means that we need to participate by asking. Then God freely gives. But God will never give Grace when you do not ask. The responsibility of providing Graces to souls is in the hands of the Church and for those who petition God. If God alone does this and freely gives Graces not for the asking then the Sacrifice of His Son was not necessary. But He needs our requests and petitions so that you may share into His Glory. And for that it was necessary for His Son to die and give us the opportunity to see His Love and Sacrifice and to respond to that Love and Sacrifice. Try not to think like a protestant thinking He has paid it all. You still need to come to Him. And you still need the opportunities of Graces to help Him pay it all. You want complete forgiveness then fulfill the requiements that will do this by participating into the Sacraments He has established to help you make full payments and restitutions so that He can fill you with that great deposit of Grace, the Holy Spirit. The Son of God has made possible for you to receive His Greatest Gift, The Holy Spirit. But to be filled with the Holy Spirit will take time and courage and willingness on your part. Some people do not completely fill all their obligations in this life to receive Fully the Holy Spirit and you need 100% of Him to enter Heaven. If you are short before you die then God will permit you to enter the Purgatory state so to help you get filled up. In Purgatory it is like a filling station. You cannot be filled anymore with your own requests so someone on earth can do that for you. Once prayer is made for you on earth God then will be filling you with His Holy Spirit so that you can receive Him to the fullest and when that happens you will enter into a heavenly state and then to Heaven. Purgatory is for this life. If you do not complete your purgatory in this life God then will extend it to the next life. God only extends what is already there. This is why the Saints enter Heaven after they die for they have completed their Purgatory before they die. All souls who are in a Purgatory state whether living on earth or after they have died will all eventually enter Heaven. But you need something at least a portion of the Holy Spirit before you die so that you will not enter Hell. Even if you only has 1% of the Presence of the Holy Spirit in you before you die you will enter Heaven eventually after a long time in Purgatory after you have died. God is going to have to give you 99% more and that is alot of filling. Think of Purgatory after death as a filling station like you do when you are almost on empty when you car needs more gasoline. That is what primarily is Purgatory after death. It is a filling station. To help you to be filled with the Holy Spirit. But why wait after death. Do it now while you can. After you die you will have to depend on those on earth to get you eventually to Heaven. Do it now while you are living and through your participation of the Sacraments and your willingness to be obediant to His Church you may receive the largest portions of the Holy Spirit even to the fullest as did the Saints so that your Purgatory after you die will not be necessary. Even Jesus said to a servant in a parable that the person in question will not get out until he has paid the last penny. What did Jesus mean. Certainly not hell because you cannot get out of there after death. It must refer to another State. The state of Purgatory. Now you can help yourself before you die but after you die you cannot do that anymore. You must depend upon the prayers of others who are living on earth to help you. And if no one is praying for you personally then God may need some prayers of others who are praying generally for the Holy Souls to help you. Otherwise you might have to wait until the Second Coming when God will give to all those in Purgatory those Final Graces to enter Heaven.
 
I can’t get into Purgatory before cleaning house on your theory of salvation, which is Lutheran, not Catholic.
We need to read the book of Hebrews… It said that Christ died once for All of our sins and He purged us allready.
No, you need to keep reading Hebrews.

[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 10:26-27[/BIBLEDRB]

“Knowledge of the truth” == Christianity, so here you have Christians who sin mortally (wilfully and deliberately) who no longer have a Sacrifice (Calvary) for their sins (meaning they HAD the Sacrifice, they WERE saved… and now are not) because of their mortal sin.

So now look at your first statement:
Ok this might sound strange… but purgatory is not biblical… I mean Jesus paid the price for ALL of our sins when He died on the cross… He paid the price in FUll=completely/totally. And His blood covers all of our sins… right?
Yes, Jesus paid the price for your sins. Yes, there is no need for any more sacrifices. Yes, there is not one sin that He didn’t pay the price for. But He can only wash what you let Him wash. Moreover, if you keep on sinning (as we all do) you must also tender those sins to be washed. Also, in order to wash the sins, the Blood of Christ must be made present again or else you will have nothing with which to wash them. Because Calvary cannot be repeated, this re-presentation is accomplished through the Mass.
When God the Father looks at us He only sees the blood and rightouness of Jesus. He dosen’t see us-our own rightousness.
False.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 2:1-11[/BIBLEDRB]
We are justified by faith alone, apart from works.
“Apart from” doesn’t mean “instead of.” It means “besides.”

To make an apple pie, apart from apples, you need a crust. If you don’t have a crust you aren’t going to be able to make a pie. Faith and works are both required. So is grace. Speaking of which:
James 2 means that IF we have saving faith in Jesus THEN we will have works=that faith will produce works, but works don’t save or justify us.
Unborn babies have no faith and no works. If they are aborted, does that mean they go to hell? No? Then how are they saved if they have no faith and no works? Answer: they are saved by GRACE, which is completely different from faith or works, both of which are things that men do and neither of which has any power to save apart from grace.
 
what you are saying here is very similar to protestant teachings, and it is false,
first of all, purgatory is in the bible, both old and new testament, there’s Mt 5:48, Heb 12:14, Jam 3:2, Rev 21:27, 1 Jn 5:16-17, Jam 1:14-15, 2 Sam 12:13-14, Mt 5:26, Mt 12:32, Mt 12-36, 2 Macc 12:44-46, 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Pet 3:18-20; 4:6, 2 Tim 1:16-18, 1 Cor 15:29-30.

And secondly, Jesus indeed made reparation for our sins, and took upon Himself the sins and eternal punishment for sin, but not the temporal punishment, we are able to be saved from going to hell, but that does not mean we are off the hook completely,
Jesus re-opened the gates of heaven, Reconciled us with God, and merited abundant graces for us through His passion, but we have to cooperate with those graces, and be made in like form with Christ to merit them.

and you are also mistaken about faith being apart from works, i don’t know what version of the bible you read, but here is from the official Catholic version on the chapter you mentioned -
*"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way? "
“For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.” *

so, we are not justified by faith alone, and faith is not apart from works.

Jesus redeemed us by His holy Passion, but we still must work for our salvation, and why? because that is the whole point of our being here, we are here to learn to love God and earn heaven, although we will never “deserve” heaven, but we can still earn it by our good works and our love for God,
God didn’t come down and become man and live and die for us just to make it easier for us, not at all, He did all of that so that we may be saved, but we still must strive for it, because that is how we learn and grow, God gives us the graces, but the effort must be on our part,
and while our sins can be blotted out, they are not instantly blotted out when we commit them, we still must seek forgiveness,
and as we are told, “Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death?” Romans 6:3
we are baptized in His death, meaning, it is by His death that our sins and original sins is wiped clean from our soul for the first time, but because Christ died once only, so once only can we be baptized, it is by His death that we merit baptism, so after baptism, when we sin again, what merits forgiveness then? we must be made in like form with Christ to merit forgiveness, and what merits our forgiveness after baptism is the sacrament of penance, penance is a punishment, and just as Jesus was punished in innocence for our sins, so we must undergo some suffering as punishment to merit forgiveness for our sins,
although Jesus makes this easy for us with the sacrament of penance, after all, would we not travel a thousand miles, walk across burning coals, or other manners of difficulties, to gain this priceless salvation for our immortal souls? confession is such a great gift, and a rather easy task when you think of what it could have been instead,
although confession still does not wipe the stain of sin from our souls, by confession we obtain forgiveness and receive sanctifying grace back into our soul, but we still must pay for the sin…for example, lets say a child breaks a neighbors window with a baseball, and he regrets this very much and seeks forgiveness from his neighbor, and the neighbor forgives him, and the child is happy for this…but the neighbor says, “but, the window still needs to be replaced, and so you must pay me for it”
well, it is the same with our sins, and with good reason to, because when we sin, that has a negative effect on our soul, our mind, our heart, and it weakens our will, so, to reverse the effect of sin and clean its stain from our soul, we must do penances, preform good works, pray, and do various other works of piety,
but because we may not be able to wipe clean all the stain of sin from our souls before death, so there is purgatory, because nothing unclean can enter into heaven,
and while by the blood of Christ our sins may be washed away, they are not “covered”,
God wants to make us into what we were meant to be from the beginning, He doesn’t just want to cover up our imperfections and sins, He wants us to be perfect for real!, and to do that we must do the things He has taught us, to deny ourselves, take up our cross daily, and follow Him, keep His commandments, imitate His virtues, we must put in the effort, and God will supply the graces,

well, i have to go, although i would like to say more, but i’ll be glad to help if you have anymore questions,
but my advice to you right now would be, try to get a better Catholic education, because it sounds like you’ve been taught by protestant sources, and so i would recommend these instead -
www.tanbooks.com
www.fraternitypublications.com
audiosancto.org/
alabamacatholicresources.com/index.html
catholicapologetics.info/
gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewforum.php?f=211177
drbo.org/
haydock1859.tripod.com/
goodcatholicbooks.org/
www.realcatholictv.com

alright, so i hope this helps, take care.
 
Ok this might sound strange… but purgatory is not biblical… I mean Jesus paid the price for ALL of our sins when He died on the cross… He paid the price in FUll=completely/totally. And His blood covers all of our sins… right?

When God the Father looks at us He only sees the blood and rightouness of Jesus. He dosen’t see us-our own rightousness. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. James 2 means that IF we have saving faith in Jesus THEN we will have works=that faith will produce works, but works don’t save or justify us.

You know what I mean?

We need to read the book of Hebrews… It said that Christ died once for All of our sins and He purged us allready.

That’s my understanding and point of view of all that…

Thanks…
Really? Search Purgatory in these forums for all the Biblical references to cleansing after death. Purgatory is one of the reasons I switched from Baptist to Catholic (am switching, I should say…).

Let’s say Mother Theresa and Charlie Manson are riding in a car together. Mother Theresa explains to Manson about Christianity and Jesus and Manson truly and faithfully accepts Jesus as his savior and asks her to pull over so that he can be baptized. At that instant a meteor falls from the sky and destroys the car. Now comes the part I always had a problem with growing up Baptist… According to what I was taught growing up, they would both go to Heaven together. Mother Theresa lived her whole life for Jesus while Manson just accepted Jesus 30 seconds ago. I believe that both have earned their place in Heaven, but Mother Theresa has spent her whole life preparing for that. Manson… Not so much.

Another analogy is two people going to see the President. One decides to get up early, shower, shave, put on his best suit… The other one waits till the last minute–no shower, no shave, throws on some jogging pants, and runs across DC to get to the White House. The Secret Service let the first guy right in, but make the other guy shower, shave, and put on a suit.

Either in this life or the next, we all have to clean ourselves up before we meet God.
 
Wow… We’re on this topic like white on rice in a glass of milk on a paper plate in a snow storm…
 
But… Luther rejected the Idea of purgatory…

I believe that when we die, our works will be judged-the bema seat judgement… that’s in 1st Corinthians 3…
 
I hate to be Negative Nelly, but, I believe you lied on your profile when you said you were a Catholic.

Does God’s grace cover the sin of bearing false witness? Is that like the Muslims who are allowed to lie to “infidels” as long as it promotes their religion?

I see it does you no good to post links as you are ignoring them.

:tsktsk:
 
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