Purgatory

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Ok, so the reason for Purgatory is that we need to be purified of attachment and effects of Venial sin, I understand that.

However, if I can pray for someone to be released quicker, doesn’t that mean they missed out on necessary time and they were not purified in the end?
 
TheInquisitor said:
Ok, so the reason for Purgatory is that we need to be purified of attachment and effects of Venial sin, I understand that.

However, if I can pray for someone to be released quicker, doesn’t that mean they missed out on necessary time and they were not purified in the end?
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I call this my “banana peel premise”.

You go to confession, you make a good confession, you repent and have the purpose of amendment.

Father gives you the absolution and your pennance - pray 4 Hail Mary’s and 2 Our Fathers - you exit the confessional. Some other parishioner was eating a banana in church (?) drops the banana peel on the floor and you slip on the banana peel; break your neck and die.

Your soul would go to Purgatory because even though you went to confessiona and it was a good confession - you didn’t fulfill your pennance.

someone else has to do that for you…your family, your friends, the legion of Mary etc.

Don’t worry, I pray the Rosarium Memento Mori everyday…it is my mission and your soul will recieve my prayers.
 
perro_sarnoso said:
I call this my “banana peel premise”.

You go to confession, you make a good confession, you repent and have the purpose of amendment.

Father gives you the absolution and your pennance - pray 4 Hail Mary’s and 2 Our Fathers - you exit the confessional. Some other parishioner was eating a banana in church (?) drops the banana peel on the floor and you slip on the banana peel; break your neck and die.

Your soul would go to Purgatory because even though you went to confessiona and it was a good confession - you didn’t fulfill your pennance.

someone else has to do that for you…your family, your friends, the legion of Mary etc.

Don’t worry, I pray the Rosarium Memento Mori everyday…it is my mission and your soul will recieve my prayers.
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I was of the understanding that purgatory was also to detach you from the attachment to sin right? Or is it just paying off the debt of the effects of sin?

If it’s just a debt so to say that needs to be payed regardless of who pays it, I totally understand.
 
Ahh, excellent question! Something I have often wondered myself. Hope we get some good replies. 🍿

Another question:

Certainly purgatory is a place of purification and is (I think) *primarily *a place of purification. But can it rightly be said to also be a place of punishment?
 
TheInquisitor said:
Ok, so the reason for Purgatory is that we need to be purified of attachment and effects of Venial sin, I understand that.

However, if I can pray for someone to be released quicker, doesn’t that mean they missed out on necessary time and they were not purified in the end?
Click to expand...
Think about it. Aren’t we then praying that they be purified as quickly as possibleI know that is always my intention.
 
Greetings Dcana,

I don’t see purgatory as punishment. It is a place of purification. I see Hell as the punishment.

So my opinion, no I don’t think that you one could say they were being punished in purgatory.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
Out of curiosity, are there good Scriptural and Patristic arguments for the purgatory, or is it more of a medieval concept?
 
I’ve always seen it as switching from a charcoal gravity water filter to a reverse osmosis force filter. One takes a while, the other is almost instant… but both produce pure water.
 
TheInquisitor said:
I was of the understanding that purgatory was also to detach you from the attachment to sin right? Or is it just paying off the debt of the effects of sin?

If it’s just a debt so to say that needs to be payed regardless of who pays it, I totally understand.
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I am a Coptic Catholic of the Oriental Tradition and not a Latin Catholic, so folks correct me if I’m wrong. I think you are misunderstanding the matter. 'Paying off the debt" is the same thing as “detachment from sin.” They are not two separate things. The “debt” is the debt of holiness, and detachment from sin is that selfsame holiness.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
TheInquisitor said:
However, if I can pray for someone to be released quicker, doesn’t that mean they missed out on necessary time and they were not purified in the end?
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Interesting question. Maybe prayer just intensifies the purification.

Peace
David
 
TheInquisitor said:
Ok, so the reason for Purgatory is that we need to be purified of attachment and effects of Venial sin, I understand that.

However, if I can pray for someone to be released quicker, doesn’t that mean they missed out on necessary time and they were not purified in the end?
Click to expand...
Purgatory is not like an Oven… where if you take the thing out too early it won’t be fully cooked. 😃

I’d say that in that case, assuming their attachment to sin has been purged, then the prayers of the faithful accomplished the penance that the person was needing.

But being part of Heaven and under the control of God… you don’t have to worry about someone ‘escaping’ or being “released on good behavior” too early.

This aint like a Parole System. hahahahaha 😃
 
TheInquisitor said:
Ok, so the reason for Purgatory is that we need to be purified of attachment and effects of Venial sin, I understand that.

However, if I can pray for someone to be released quicker, doesn’t that mean they missed out on necessary time and they were not purified in the end?
Click to expand...
Where is purgatory mentioned in the Bible?
 
JJsaint said:
Where is purgatory mentioned in the Bible?
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The term “purgatory” itself is not mentioned. That is simply because this is the TERM that the Catholic church has come up with for the doctrine and concept of a purification process that the bible speaks of.

It would be like if I told you, “After installing the software, you need to configure it”
and you fire back… “The User Manual says nothing about “configuring” the software.”
My response: "Maybe so, but it does talk about choosing the appropriate settings before you use it… I collectively call this process of setting it up “configuring it”

The word Purgatory is mistaken to be a place… a sorta limbo between heaven and hell. But that’s a very immature understanding of it. The Catholic church teaches that it is a “process” a stage or step we all (or most of us) will pass through before we enter heaven.

In the bible… Jesus talks about Sins which can be forgiven in this age, but certain blasphemies against the Holy Spirit which will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come.
“This age” we assume refers to Earth, or this life. “Age to come” we assume refers to the after-life.
We know that in Hell, there is NO forgiveness, period. We know in Heaven, there is no need for forgiveness. So the question is… what “age” is he referring to, where some sins may be forgiven, but others will not? - Why the differentiation if there is only heaven and hell?

In the bible, Jesus also talks about paying the last cent before being let out of prison. – We know that you can not get out of Hell and we know that no one would want to get out of Heaven, and that Heaven is not a ‘prison’ - so WHAT is this state that he talks about where we need to pay something before we are let out?

There are other verses… but these 2 seem to scream for some process of purgation or purification between heaven and earth.
 
jschutzm said:
The term “purgatory” itself is not mentioned. That is simply because this is the TERM that the Catholic church has come up with for the doctrine and concept of a purification process that the bible speaks of.

It would be like if I told you, “After installing the software, you need to configure it”
and you fire back… “The User Manual says nothing about “configuring” the software.”
My response: "Maybe so, but it does talk about choosing the appropriate settings before you use it… I collectively call this process of setting it up “configuring it”

The word Purgatory is mistaken to be a place… a sorta limbo between heaven and hell. But that’s a very immature understanding of it. The Catholic church teaches that it is a “process” a stage or step we all (or most of us) will pass through before we enter heaven.

In the bible… Jesus talks about Sins which can be forgiven in this age, but certain blasphemies against the Holy Spirit which will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come.
“This age” we assume refers to Earth, or this life. “Age to come” we assume refers to the after-life.
We know that in Hell, there is NO forgiveness, period. We know in Heaven, there is no need for forgiveness. So the question is… what “age” is he referring to, where some sins may be forgiven, but others will not? - Why the differentiation if there is only heaven and hell?

In the bible, Jesus also talks about paying the last cent before being let out of prison. – We know that you can not get out of Hell and we know that no one would want to get out of Heaven, and that Heaven is not a ‘prison’ - so WHAT is this state that he talks about where we need to pay something before we are let out?

There are other verses… but these 2 seem to scream for some process of purgation or purification between heaven and earth.
Click to expand...
So,Purgatory is an assumption???
Since Bible verses cannot be explained,there is another place where people are purified and then saved???
It’s a man made invention???

Luke 16:26:And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
 
Nope … it’s a dogma of the Church infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit in Her teaching, according to the promise of Her Founder, and therefore it exists.
 
I know it’s a rather tired example, and many others could be given, but where is the word “Trinity” in the Bible? Since, as you know, the word “Trinity” is not in the Bible, do you not believe God is a Trinity, a Communion of Three Persons?

God Bless
 
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