Purgatory

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bones_IV

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Many protestants tell me there is no purgatory. Protestant brethren, here’s something for you to chew on. Was anyone prior to the time of Christ, allowed to enter the Jewish temple unclean?

The answer is no.
No one, not even if you were slightly defiled, could enter one step into the temple, not even the outer region. With this in mind, imagine how much more the case in heaven, in which the saints and angels are in the presence of God.

Purgatory exists, because of one’s attachment to sin. Think about it.
 
I always ask them where the good people were at before Jesus came, they always say Paradise. I say “oh you believe in purgatory” they say no, I believe in paradise. 😛
 
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bones_IV:
Many protestants tell me there is no purgatory. Protestant brethren, here’s something for you to chew on. Was anyone prior to the time of Christ, allowed to enter the Jewish temple unclean?

The answer is no.
No one, not even if you were slightly defiled, could enter one step into the temple, not even the outer region. With this in mind, imagine how much more the case in heaven, in which the saints and angels are in the presence of God.

Purgatory exists, because of one’s attachment to sin. Think about it.
Click to expand...
1 John 1:7: but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from ALL sin.

Think about it. 🙂
 
sandusky said:
1 John 1:7: but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from ALL sin.

Think about it. 🙂
Click to expand...

Hmm…interesting!
 
sandusky said:
1 John 1:7: but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from ALL sin.

Think about it. 🙂
Click to expand...

He may remove us of all sin,but the trail you left is still there!

Imagine a brick wall,everytime you sin a nail is hammered into that wall,jesus forgives our sins,so the nail is taken out,but the holes are still there!
Purgatory fills them holes!
 
sandusky said:
1 John 1:7: but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from ALL sin.

Think about it. 🙂
Click to expand...

I don’t see why Purgatory has to be separated from Christ’s sacrafice. The purging of Purgatory is possible BECAUSE of Christ. It’s not in competition with Him.
 
I answered on a different thread- I am a Protestant who believes in Purgatory- or believes that it makes sense bibically, theologically and is just.
As a Protestant-(who is open to the Catholic faith) most Protestants objection to purgatory is due to what they mistakenly believe the Catholic Church teaches about Purgatory-
not what it really teaches.
 
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Vanny:
I answered on a different thread- I am a Protestant who believes in Purgatory- or believes that it makes sense bibically, theologically and is just.
As a Protestant-(who is open to the Catholic faith) most Protestants objection to purgatory is due to what they mistakenly believe the Catholic Church teaches about Purgatory-
not what it really teaches.
Click to expand...
I think you hit the nail on the head. Prior to finding out what the Catholic Church teaches I thought Purgatory was a place of torment and that you could buy your way out, or if you didn’t buy your way out prior to death you had to wait for a loved one to purchase an indulgence.
 
sandusky said:
1 John 1:7: but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from ALL sin.

Think about it. 🙂
Click to expand...

So as long as we walk in the light we are clean. So you have never slipped into darkness? So if I slip into darkness and I die will I go to hell or is there a chance that I can be cleansed of that sin? If someone who has lived a good life and conformed to God’s will but makes a simple slip into darkness he is not going to Heaven because he was not walking in the light at the time of his/her death? If you say that he/she does have a chance to get to Heaven where will that sin be cleansed? It cannot be forgiven in heaven and no soul can be saved from hell. So tell me where does that unclean soul go? That is where Purgatory comes into play my friend.

Everyone in their life time has walked in darkness and if anyone says they have not would make a liar of he/she and of Jesus. That is what is being said in 1 John 1:5-10. Read the whole thing not just what you want. No one goes straight to Heaven if they have sinned in their lifetime and on their soul at time of death. It is said many a time in the Bible that no unclean soul will enter Heaven. Just because you accept Him does not make you clean.
Ah, reality check.
 
So you believe that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin? How does it cleanse us? Are just made free from all sin? Is the punishment for our sin cleansed from us?

Are we made perfect so that we can enter heaven? Or can we enter heaven not clean?

Catholics believe we are purified before we enter heaven, this purification is called purgatory.

Here is a nice explanation on Purgatory for a more evangelical point of view, if you would like to read more.
ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ334.HTM

God Bless
Scylla
 
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godsent:
He may remove us of all sin,but the trail you left is still there!

Imagine a brick wall,everytime you sin a nail is hammered into that wall,jesus forgives our sins,so the nail is taken out,but the holes are still there!
Purgatory fills them holes!
Click to expand...
Thank you. You and I both understand the notion of purgatory, but, between us, only I understand God’s forgiveness.

2 Samuel 12:13
13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.

Psalm 103:12
12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Isaiah 38:17
*17 “Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness; It is You who has kept my soul from the pit of nothingness, For You have cast all my sins behind Your back. *

Isaiah 43:25
*25 “I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins. *

Zechariah 3:9
9 ‘For behold, the stone that I have set before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave an inscription on it,’ declares the Lord of hosts, ‘and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Hebrews 9:26
26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

It is absolute forgiveness, not partial. Christ is absolute satisfaction, not partial.

I am convinced (I say this in humility), that if you think that you are going to pay a penalty for sin at the time of your death, you will. There is only place that the Bible states that punishment occurs.

Think about it. 🙂
 
It is important though to look at these passages in context. Lets look at the first passage you cited.

**2 Samuel 12:13 **Please don’t forget to read the rest of the passage which squares fully with Catholic doctrine.
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan answered David: “The LORD on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.But since you have utterly spurned the LORD by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.”

Then Nathan returned to his house. The LORD struck the child that the wife of Uriah had borne to David, and it became desperately ill. God is all just and forgiving, we are not at all contesting God’s forgiveness and have never stated that in any way. We just need to read scripture as a whole.

Not absolutize any one passage.

We can go back and forth on passages but I think it would be more helpful if you would look at some of the views on Purgatory on this site.
Purgatory was believed in well before the Catholic Church put the Bible together. There were prayers for the dead before the Council of Carthage. We need to look at the Bible how it was meant to be read, at Mass, not as a starting point for belief. That should be Jesus Christ.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Why do you(sandusky) continue to use partial qoutes. 2 Sam 12:14 a continuation of 13 says, " But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, The child born to you must surely die." Although God forgave David of his guilt, He still required reparation in the form of suffering. Does that not tell you that you have to pay for your sins. And where do we pay for our sins, Purgatory!!!

Look at Rev 21:27, “Nothing unclean will enter it(heaven), nor any [one] who does abominable things and tells lies.” Now what does that tell you. If your soul is unclean you will not get in. Where does your soul go to be cleansed? Purgatory!!!

Because the word “Purgatory” is not in Scripture, it does not mean it doesn’t exsist. There are alot of things that are not in Scripture that protestants believe in.
 
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scylla:
It is important though to look at these passages in context. Lets look at the first passage you cited.
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What about the other passages? Tell me, what do they mean?
 
Wow scylla are we on the same page or what. 👍 It’s nice to see how Catholics all learn the same way. Now wouldn’t it be nice if the other denoms. would get it together instead of having thousands of churches all teaching different.
 
On my way:
Why do you(sandusky) continue to use partial qoutes. 2 Sam 12:14 a continuation of 13 says, " But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, The child born to you must surely die." Although God forgave David of his guilt, He still required reparation in the form of suffering.
Click to expand...
What about the other verses? Tell me, what do they mean?
On my way:
Look at Rev 21:27, “Nothing unclean will enter it(heaven), nor any [one] who does abominable things and tells lies.” Now what does that tell you. If your soul is unclean you will not get in.
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Yes, nothing unclean will enter heaven.
On my way:
Where does your soul go to be cleansed? Purgatory!!!
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My soul has been cleansed by Christ.
 
Like scylla said we can go back and forth and we still won’t agree on Purgatory. If you read a passage from the Bible and interpret the way you understand it, it will be different from the way the Church will interpret it. That’s the good thing about being Catholic, the Church protects Sacred Scripture from being misinterpreted. Since the Catholic Church put the Bible together, it will stand as the sole authentic moral and theological authority, when it comes to interpreting Sacred Scripture.

I know you will disagree with me, but that’s the good thing about the human race, our differences. I’ve read all the other passeges and told myself that it I don’t need to refute them, because it would take forever to make you realize that Purgatory exsist and I can’t change your mind, only you can do that.

You said that your soul has been cleansed. When you use the word 'has" you are speaking in a past tense form. Yes your soul has been cleansed but do you keep it cleansed? I was baptized and I go to confession, but I do make mistakes. Do you keep your soul clean all the time, Or is it OSAS?
 
I’ve always liked what CS Lewis said about purgatory (and he wasn’t a Catholic but a believing/observant Anglican).

He said that it’s as if we arrive in Heaven covered in filth and dressed in rags. Before we meet God and all the saints, we will want to be cleaned up. That’s purgatory.
 
I completely agree with the other verses as they do assert Catholic doctrine also. It is not an either, or scenario. God does cleanse us from our sin. He will separate us from sin, through His sacrifice we are saved.

The other scriptures you quoted do not in any way contradict Catholic doctrine and I fully believe in what they say. But are you asking me to assert Purgatory from scriptures that are just talking about forgiveness?

You say your soul has been cleansed by Christ. So are you perfect right now? Please explain.

Again, the Bible was created to be read at Mass, in the Liturgy. That is why the Church needed to define scripture to know what was appropriate to use at Mass. Not to prove doctrine from a point of view 2000 years removed from Christ.

I am not saying this for no reason, I am saying this because we need to look at how the faith was understood by the apostles, how Jesus taught it.

Since you have insisted, here is a page which explaining a Biblical basis for Purgatory.
ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ300.HTM
Just scroll to the bottom for purgatory.

God Bless
Scylla

Hey “On My Way” isn’t that what is great about the unity of the Catholic Church, the answers are consistant and make sense. As I learn more I love how all the parts fit together. And I have the confidence that there is always an answer to every question.
I love to be Catholic, I just wish to share it more. This is not to think I am better than anyone here, I just wish to share the faith with my brothers\sisters in Christ.
 
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