Purgatory

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keithwoodcc

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Hello,
I ask this with some hesitation, I am sure that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I can’t see it.
When I ‘discovered’ the Catholic Church (a bit like America I know - Hey, Christopher Columbus [or the Irish, or the Vikings depending on who you believe] ‘discovered’ America somewhat to the surprise of the Native Americans who didn’t even know it was lost!)… anyway, when I ‘discovered’ the Catholic Church, one of the (many) exciting discoveries for me was Purgatory.
I was to be allowed a period of cleansing, of penance before I had to stand before the presence of God.
Wonderful! It is a relief for me.
And, as far as I am aware, it is still the teaching of the Catholic Church.
So WHY is it that at every Catholic funeral I have been to the Priest has said, ‘and now Jane Bloggs is with Jesus in heaven’?
I don’t get it. Surely she is not ‘in heaven’ she is on that final pilgrim path the Holy Mother Church calls purgatory?
Every Blessing
Keith
Ps why can I not post in ‘Meet and Greet’? Is it closed?
 
I think it’s the secular/vaguely Protestant culture seeping into the American Church, as it’s been doing for decades. Even priests are not immune.

It’s not like this every time. I was blessed to be at Mrs. Nelly Gray’s funeral (she founded the national March for Life in DC). It was actually at my parish. It was a beautiful requiem Mass in the extraordinary form, with two bishops in choir.

Even in her case, and she did many great things, there was an emphasis on judgment and praying for her soul and remembering our own judgments to come. It was very stirring and made me want to pray very hard for her and all the holy souls.
 
Thank you - I am glad it’s not just me!!
UK by the way, so we are going the same way!
 
So WHY is it that at every Catholic funeral I have been to the Priest has said, ‘and now Jane Bloggs is with Jesus in heaven’?
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Strictly speaking, that is just comfort language and no one knows for sure. It takes a massive investigation and years to even canonize people as saints.

The last time I was a funeral a priest said that “I hope she/he’s in heaven, but I just don’t know”.

From the testimonies I’ve heard, it sounds like very few people escape purgatory. You’ve got to be in a perfect state to enter heaven.
 
keithwoodcc said:
I don’t get it. Surely she is not ‘in heaven’ she is on that final pilgrim path the Holy Mother Church calls purgatory?
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Welcome to the forums.

SuperLuigi gave an excellent response. This is more said for the comfort of the family…however the person may very well be in Heaven.

Remember that time is not linear for God, as He is the master of time. For example, let’s say Jane dies at 8 PM. She immediately goes before God for Particular Judgement. It is still 8 PM. God sends her to Purgatory where she undergoes what to her seems 1,000 years of cleansing, however measured in our time only 1 billionth of a second has passed, so it is still 8 PM and Jane is in Heaven.

The important thing is to continue to pray always for those who have died that God may grant His mercy and peace to them.
 
SuperLuigi said:
It takes a massive investigation and years to even canonize people as saints.
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This is a completely different question, however. There’s a distinct difference between the question of whether someone is in heaven and whether the Church has publicly declared them a saint. It’s not as if John XXIII and John Paul II are waiting to get into heaven until their canonization later this month… 😉

In other words, canonization doesn’t make a saint, it just recognizes that they are.
 
keithwoodcc said:
Hello,
I ask this with some hesitation, I am sure that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I can’t see it.
When I ‘discovered’ the Catholic Church (a bit like America I know - Hey, Christopher Columbus [or the Irish, or the Vikings depending on who you believe] ‘discovered’ America somewhat to the surprise of the Native Americans who didn’t even know it was lost!)… anyway, when I ‘discovered’ the Catholic Church, one of the (many) exciting discoveries for me was Purgatory.
I was to be allowed a period of cleansing, of penance before I had to stand before the presence of God.
Wonderful! It is a relief for me.
And, as far as I am aware, it is still the teaching of the Catholic Church.
So WHY is it that at every Catholic funeral I have been to the Priest has said, ‘and now Jane Bloggs is with Jesus in heaven’?
I don’t get it. Surely she is not ‘in heaven’ she is on that final pilgrim path the Holy Mother Church calls purgatory?
Every Blessing
Keith
Ps why can I not post in ‘Meet and Greet’? Is it closed?
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This is being dealt with more and more by the Bishops.

See here:
wdtprs.com/blog/2014/02/archbp-predergast-restricts-eulogies-at-funerals/
The Feb. 2 decree from Archbishop Terrence Prendergast reminds the faithful that Catholics gather at funerals “not to praise the deceased, but to pray for them.”
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Prendergast said Catholics have lost the “sense of the importance of the funeral Mass, that we pray for the person. Most people when they go, they canonize the person. I hope they won’t say that about me because I know I’m only going to get into heaven with the prayers of the faithful.”
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It has always offended me when these things happen. Even to people I dearly love. They need our prayers, and our help in purgatory. The modern era seems to have lost this idea. When I die. My children and family and friends better know that I need their prayers. Not their adulation and canonization.
 
Yes, our society does a great disservice to deceased souls, by “instant canonization” after death. I know several people who will put things on FB or in sympathy cards like “Now there is a new angel in heaven”, etc.

That kind of thing is no comfort to me. I was taught as a child to pray for and offer sacrifices for the souls in purgatory. “Offer it up” was commonly heard in our house! My dear mom has been dead for over 30 years now…and my good father for 15. I pray for them every day, as well as my deceased friends and relatives, and all the souls in purgatory. Mom and Dad may be in heaven by now, but I won’t stop praying for them until I’m dying myself. I figure God will give the help to some other souls in need if my parents are now in heaven.

DH and I put a stipulation in our will that we want a series of Gregorian Masses said for us upon our deaths. We also attached a little pamphlet from the Franciscan missions who will offer them and they are on file with the will at the attorney’s office. You may want to think about doing that also. I like to think our children will have Masses said for us…but they never cleaned their rooms when I asked, so who knows! …🤷
 
  1. It is an extension to a culture that is intoxicated with immediate gratification. Even in the setting of a funeral, there is pressure to receive words of instant relief from the person giving the eulogy, rather than statements that inspire us to compassion by praying for them. It is taking rather than giving.
  2. Praying for a person is a reminder of our own conspicuousness, or worse yet, impenitence. Many don’t want to hear that.
  3. The idea of purgation is removed from the vast majority of American protestant churches, and that influence takes its tole on Catholics within the country.
 
Gorgias said:
This is a completely different question, however. There’s a distinct difference between the question of whether someone is in heaven and whether the Church has publicly declared them a saint. It’s not as if John XXIII and John Paul II are waiting to get into heaven until their canonization later this month… 😉

In other words, canonization doesn’t make a saint, it just recognizes that they are.
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I am aware of that. However, telling someone that their loved one who has died is in heaven isn’t much for motivation for praying for them if they are actually in purgatory.
 
=TK421;11867443]1) It is an extension to a culture that is intoxicated with immediate gratification. Even in the setting of a funeral, there is pressure to receive words of instant relief from the person giving the eulogy, rather than statements that inspire us to compassion by praying for them. It is taking rather than giving.
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:clapping: :tiphat:
  1. Praying for a person is a reminder of our own conspicuousness, or worse yet, impenitence. Many don’t want to hear that.
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Yeah, and it’s amazing how many Catholics check their faith at the door over this, too.
  1. The idea of purgation is removed from the vast majority of American protestant churches, and that influence takes its tole on Catholics within the country.
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Purgatory isn’t cool. And some Catholics are too busy making excuses to look in front of others to even care or notice.

I’m I’ve seen that on here quite a bit myself.

So sick and tired of people sacrificing the Truth so that someone’s feelings don’t get hurt.
 
SuperLuigi said:
I am aware of that. However, telling someone that their loved one who has died is in heaven isn’t much for motivation for praying for them if they are actually in purgatory.
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Fair enough. However, bringing up the unrelated topic of canonization, in your discussion of purgatory seems to be an attempt to imply that it likewise “takes years” for the deceased to enter heaven. That’s not playing fair, either.
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SuperLuigi:
So sick and tired of people sacrificing the Truth so that someone’s feelings don’t get hurt.
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Sacrificing the Truth so that someone prays more isn’t virtuous, either. After all, we don’t ‘motivate’ people by lying to them. 😉
 
SuperLuigi said:
From the testimonies I’ve heard, it sounds like very few people escape purgatory. You’ve got to be in a perfect state to enter heaven.
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Doesn’t everybody escape purgatory when Jesus returns in Judgement?
 
What is poor priest going to say? Auntie Mame hopefully has escaped Hell and is most likely suffering the worst punishments of Purgatory and we hope she made it that far so she may eventually get to Heaven. No, for the sake of the relatives he says what we all hope in the promises of Christ.
 
Hello,
I would like to say ‘thank you’ for these answers. That has really been very helpful.
However, I would respectfully suggest to Petaro that, as someone has already pointed out, that these deceased folks NEED our prayers. To say Auntie Mame is in heaven may be ‘comforting’ but takes away the thrust of that need.
I may take up one of the suggestions. I have a pre-paid funeral plan. I think I will put in this that I would like to request people’s prayers.
“…but they never cleaned their rooms when I asked, so who knows!” Yes, indeed.
A lady at our church whose family are non-catholic was unceremoniously ‘done’ at our local crematorium by the first pastor the funeral directors found.
I do believe that my (non-catholic) family have more respect for my beliefs - but Hey! No! They never tidied their rooms either…
Blessings,
Keith
 
i agree completely. I have given instructions to my good wife for a number of masses said for me as I think there is a long wait ahead and it won’t be all roses. Your wise post is very true.
 
I think the reason why individuals at a funeral say that such and such is in heaven now is because many Catholics, including priests, are ignorant about the reality of sin, concupiscence, the necessity for Purgatory, and the fact that nothing unclean shall enter heaven. As I recall, very very few people in the history of the church have died in a state of perfect sanctifying grace and have gone directly to Heaven. Additionally, praying for the dead is one of the most important Traditions in the Catholic Church; its a way of helping our deceased brothers and sisters who are in purgatory get to heaven quicker.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Strictly speaking, that is just comfort language and no one knows for sure. It takes a massive investigation and years to even canonize people as saints.

The last time I was a funeral a priest said that “I hope she/he’s in heaven, but I just don’t know”.

From the testimonies I’ve heard, it sounds like very few people escape purgatory. You’ve got to be in a perfect state to enter heaven.
Click to expand...
No no, it’s not that bad. It is clearly mentioned that you can go directly into heaven when you have followed God’s words as long as you are still physically alive. Meaning Praying, going to church and truelly understanding mass, helping others in need, these kind of things. So anyone has the choice to avoid purgatory or not !
 
snowwolf0111 said:
No no, it’s not that bad. It is clearly mentioned that you can go directly into heaven when you have followed God’s words as long as you are still physically alive. Meaning Praying, going to church and truelly understanding mass, helping others in need, these kind of things. So anyone has the choice to avoid purgatory or not !
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Based on what I’ve heard, it sounds like it’s quite a challenge to avoid purgatory altogether and I would not take that lightly.
 
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