purgatory

[rosajrms]

I am a new Catholic, since June 2005. I was doing fine until this past November, the month of departed souls. What I learned of purgatory horrified me. I am also a child of divorce. Few know the anguish I have experienced. Gracious God, Holy Ghost, healed me of that extremely painful and deep torn-apart aspect of divorce. I was in terrible pain for most of my life. Since November, I have been feeling this anguish again over purgatory. My experience of God has been Love and Mercy and Healing. Does Jesus really judge us harshly and throw us to the devil until we are perfect enough for heaven? How can this be? I’m not so articulate in speaking. Writing works better for me. I don’t feel comfortable asking about this at my Traditional Catholic Church, because of the child of divorce anguish that is not understandable to most. I want to give myself wholely and without question to Precious Mary and Her Son, Jesus, and to Our Father, and to the Holy Ghost. But, I have such distrust over purgatory. I have been betrayed much by people. I do not give my trust easily.

Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. Is this something I need to go to confession about? I’m so confused.

 

[thistle]

rosajrms:

I am a new Catholic, since June 2005. I was doing fine until this past November, the month of departed souls. What I learned of purgatory horrified me. I am also a child of divorce. Few know the anguish I have experienced. Gracious God, Holy Ghost, healed me of that extremely painful and deep torn-apart aspect of divorce. I was in terrible pain for most of my life. Since November, I have been feeling this anguish again over purgatory. My experience of God has been Love and Mercy and Healing. Does Jesus really judge us harshly and throw us to the devil until we are perfect enough for heaven? How can this be? I’m not so articulate in speaking. Writing works better for me. I don’t feel comfortable asking about this at my Traditional Catholic Church, because of the child of divorce anguish that is not understandable to most. I want to give myself wholely and without question to Precious Mary and Her Son, Jesus, and to Our Father, and to the Holy Ghost. But, I have such distrust over purgatory. I have been betrayed much by people. I do not give my trust easily.

Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. Is this something I need to go to confession about? I’m so confused.

Purgatory is not Hell and the Devil certainly is not there. If you find yourself in Purgatory after you die it means you have been saved and its just a purification process before going to Heaven for eternity. Its not a place of torture or punishment. I for one would be very happy if I found myself there.
Being in Purgatory means Satan can never touch you ever.

 

[rosajrms]

Thank you! That is not how my Catholic friends have described it. They describe the torture.

 

[swnunley]

rosajrms:

Since November, I have been feeling this anguish again over purgatory. My experience of God has been Love and Mercy and Healing. Does Jesus really judge us harshly and throw us to the devil until we are perfect enough for heaven? How can this be?

First, welcome to the Church. I am sure you will find great comfort in Her teachings and Sacraments as you continue to grow in your spiritual life.

Second, a good quick source on Purgatory can be found at Catholic Answers. Try this hyperlink:
catholic.com/library/purgatory.asp. Here, it will tell you a great deal about what Purgatory is, what it isn’t, and what it does for us. For instance, it will explain why Purgatory is necessary, and even why it doesn’t contradict Scripture, as some non-Catholics claim it does.

Now, some clarification. Purgatory is not Hell, and it’s not even really what you would consider a place, but it’s more like a process. The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

Only those who die in friendship with God, yet imperfect friendship (no mortal sin), need to be purified, or “purged”, if you will. If you reject God in this life, you will reject him in the next, and will not even go through Purgatory. Purgatory is not a second chance for unrepentant sinners.

Bishop Sheen described Purgatory as the pain of longing that you feel when someone you love is parted from you, yet the joy you feel in knowing that you will see him again. I used that very same description to explain Purgatory to my children, as I was in the Navy for 20 years, and spent many months at sea.

I recommend you go to your local Catholic bookstore, parish bookstore, or go online, whatever is available to you, and purchase a Catechism of the Catholic Church to have handy whenever you have any question about Church doctrines or teachings. You can even access it online at www.usccb.org, which is the website for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. You can also find just about any church document online there, including the CCC, and the Bible.

 

[QUICUMQUE_VULT]

rosajrms:

Thank you! That is not how my Catholic friends have described it. They describe the torture.

There is purifying fire, But the souls have great Hope,and Fear of God. They are constantly consoled by our prayers,good works, offered for them. As well as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass offered for them. It is truly efficacious.

If purgatory did not exist we would have to invent it.

 

[awfulthings9]

rosajrms:

Thank you! That is not how my Catholic friends have described it. They describe the torture.

Rosajrms,
Welcome. My one and only piece of advice is to never ask these friends for explanation of Catholic doctrine again. They obviously have a bad understanding of it. My guess is that God called you into the Catholic Church in order to, among other things, help to educate these people as to what the church really teaches. The idea of Purgatory is completely the opposite of what they described. They probably were raised in an area with bad instruction in these matters. Purgatory, as others have written, is simply the place where God purifies us from our earthly attachments so we can focus solely on him.

I also am a child of divorce. I remember that my parents fell out of love (and one cheated on the other) because each loved other things more than his/her spouse. It eventually tore the marriage apart. God uses Purgatory to as a chance for us to focus solely on him so that “divorce” from him is impossible and Heaven is a pure marital bliss between us and our bridegroom, Christ. It is a beautiful concept, and you should be sure to read orthodox Catholic materials rather than listen to what misinformed Catholics “think” it is.

 

[hurst]

thistle:

Purgatory … Its not a place of torture or punishment.

Yes, it is a place of punishment.

Here is some Church teaching:

1. 
   *] The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory (De fide)
   *] The purifying fire will not continue after the General Judgment (Sent. communis)
   
   2. Nature of the Punishment of the Cleansing Fire
   … a distinction is made between poena damni and the poena sensus.
   
   Poena damni consists in the temporary exclusion from the beatific vision of God. On the ground of the special judgment which has gone before, it is, however, associated with the certainty of the final beatification (D 778). The poor souls are conscious that they are children and friends of God and long for the most intimate unification with Him. Thus the temporary separation is all the more painful to them.
   
   To the poena damni is added, according to the general teaching of the theologians, a poena sensus… Out of consideration for the separated Greeks, who reject the notion of a purifying fire, the official declarations of the Councils speak only of purifying punishments (poena purgatoriae), not of purifying fire. D 464, 693. Cf. S. Thomas, Sent. IV d. 21 2. 1 a. 1 qc. 3.
   
   3. Object of the Purification
   The remission of the venial sins which are not yet remitted, occurs, according to the teaching of St. Thomas (De male, 7,11), as it does in this life, by an act of contrition deriving from charity and performed with the help of grace. This act of contrition, which is presumably awakened immediately after entry into the purifying fire, does not, however, effect the abrogation or the diminution of the punishment for sins, since in the other world there is no longer any possibility of merit.
   
   The temporal punishments for sins are atoned for in the purifying fire by the so-called suffering of atonement (satispassio), that is, by the willing bearing of the expiatory punishments imposed by God.
   
   Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (pp. 484-485)
   Ludwig Ott
   
   hurst

 

[hurst]

rosajrms:

Thank you! That is not how my Catholic friends have described it. They describe the torture.

“The official declarations of the Councils speak only of purifying punishments” (Ott, p.485)

These purifying punishments can very well be torture. There are many accounts from saints throughout the centuries who have been given private revelations concerning the state of those in the next world, and they are all in agreement that there are different levels in purgatory; the lowest involve torturing by demons, the highest involve no torture as such but only an intense longing to be united with God. In any case, the punishments are commensurate with the sins committed. But one is not obliged to believe these accounts of others. Yet, I personally do. It only makes sense.

Matthew 5:26 Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

hurst

 

[awalt]

I don’t think there is any dogmatic teaching by the Church on the specific of what the cleansing is, or how long it takes. Keep in mind you can actually undergo cleansing of temporal punishment while on earth (look into Indulgences, partial and plenary, which is a teaching of the Church.)

I don’t think this is something to get wrapped up about, because in reality we don’t have a choice and it beats the alternative. Pray to God that He always helps you know right from wrong and to choose to accept His graces, and know that if you get to Purgatory, you are 100% certain of being saved! God also will never ask us to do something we can’t, so the worst it can be is “really hard” for a guaranteed eternity with God. Where do I sign up? :yup:

 

[thistle]

hurst:

Yes, it is a place of punishment.

Here is some Church teaching:

1. 
   *] The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory (De fide)
   *] The purifying fire will not continue after the General Judgment (Sent. communis)
   
   2. Nature of the Punishment of the Cleansing Fire
   … a distinction is made between poena damni and the poena sensus.
   
   Poena damni consists in the temporary exclusion from the beatific vision of God. On the ground of the special judgment which has gone before, it is, however, associated with the certainty of the final beatification (D 778). The poor souls are conscious that they are children and friends of God and long for the most intimate unification with Him. Thus the temporary separation is all the more painful to them.
   
   To the poena damni is added, according to the general teaching of the theologians, a poena sensus… Out of consideration for the separated Greeks, who reject the notion of a purifying fire, the official declarations of the Councils speak only of purifying punishments (poena purgatoriae), not of purifying fire. D 464, 693. Cf. S. Thomas, Sent. IV d. 21 2. 1 a. 1 qc. 3.
   
   3. Object of the Purification
   The remission of the venial sins which are not yet remitted, occurs, according to the teaching of St. Thomas (De male, 7,11), as it does in this life, by an act of contrition deriving from charity and performed with the help of grace. This act of contrition, which is presumably awakened immediately after entry into the purifying fire, does not, however, effect the abrogation or the diminution of the punishment for sins, since in the other world there is no longer any possibility of merit.
   
   The temporal punishments for sins are atoned for in the purifying fire by the so-called suffering of atonement (satispassio), that is, by the willing bearing of the expiatory punishments imposed by God.
   
   Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (pp. 484-485)
   Ludwig Ott
   
   hurst

1. 
   The punishment is that we are still separated from being with God eternally and that we have to go through a purifying process before we can be fully united with God.
   Do not try to imply its a place of punishment like Hell because that is simply not true!!

 

[hurst]

thistle:

The punishment is that we are still separated from being with God eternally and that we have to go through a purifying process before we can be fully united with God.
Do not try to imply its a place of punishment like Hell because that is simply not true!!

I am not implying. I am explicitly stating what is taught – that it is a place of temporal “punishment” for cleansing, and that they purify by the atonement rendered.

The temporal punishments for sins are atoned for in the purifying fire by the so-called suffering of atonement (satispassio), that is, by the willing bearing of the expiatory punishments imposed by God. (Ott, p. 485)

I did not say anything about Hell.

hurst

 

[thistle]

hurst:

I am not implying. I am explicitly stating what is taught – that it is a place of temporal “punishment” for cleansing, and that they purify by the atonement rendered.

The temporal punishments for sins are atoned for in the purifying fire by the so-called suffering of atonement (satispassio), that is, by the willing bearing of the expiatory punishments imposed by God. (Ott, p. 485)

I did not say anything about Hell.

hurst

You are emphasising “punishment”. In fact Purgatory is not a place to be punished.
Purgatory is a purification process during which the “punishment” is knowing you are saved but not yet united with God.

 

[hurst]

thistle:

You are emphasising “punishment”. In fact Purgatory is not a place to be punished.
Purgatory is a purification process during which the “punishment” is knowing you are saved but not yet united with God.

Are you saying that you do not accept what I posted, that there are two kinds of penalties there: pain of separation and pain of sense?

hurst

 

[puzzleannie]

rosajrms:

I . My experience of God has been Love and Mercy and Healing. Does Jesus really judge us harshly and throw us to the devil until we are perfect enough for heaven? How can this be? . But, I have such distrust over purgatory. I have been betrayed much by people. I do not give my trust easily.

Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. Is this something I need to go to confession about? I’m so confused.

I don’t know who explained purgatory to you, but if they told you Jesus throws you to the devil, they lied to you, and gave you a wrong impression, and did not explain the doctrine. You are right not to trust such a person.

Look on the CA homepage for the excellent articles in the library on purgatory for a complete explanation.

Purgatory is a beautiful example of the mercy of God. Knowing that we have sinned and been forgiven, yet still feel remorse about what we have done, God gives us this chance to become perfectly clean before we come before Him in heaven after we die. C S Lewis says it best, and I will try to paraphrase. We have been through a great battle on earth and come through victorious, but we still have scars, are covered with mud, blood and dirt, our garments are torn and dirty. God says, Welcome my child, to the place that has been prepared for you. We say, thank you my Lord, but please isn’t there a place I can clean up.
Nobody here will think any less of you, you are welcome no matter how you look, He says.
thank you, Lord, we reply, but please I would feel so much better if I could be clean.
Yes, my child, here is a place where you can become perfectly clean, healed of your scars and wounds, and clothed in white garments, but I warn you, it will be painful. For a little while you will not see Me, but know that I am very near.
Yes Lord, I know it will hurt, but all the same I wish to be perfectly clean.
Very well, my child, the moment you are perfectly healed My angels will bring you to me.

Purgatory is NOT hell, is not a place of torment, it is a place of healing, purification, cleansing, and allowing God to act in making us the perfect person we were meant to be, yet could not achieve on earth.

We are not forced to spend eternity in heaven in our dirt and rags, but to become cleansed and fit for our heavenly home.

No, you certainly do not have to confess confusion about Church teaching, but you did the right thing by asking for an explanation.

By the way, many many people here, and in your home church, have known the pain and trauma of divorce, you are not alone, and none of what you suffered is your fault. Jesus in His sacraments, as you already know, is ready to heal you, and to continue healing you of this pain. Welcome home.

 

[puzzleannie]

rosajrms:

Thank you! That is not how my Catholic friends have described it. They describe the torture.

your Catholic friends do not understand purgatory then, please go to this article in the CA library. Maybe you can help them come to a better understand of God’s mercy in giving us the gift of purification and enlightenment.
catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

Your friend is like someone who tells you that you should go to the dentist to have your teeth fixed, but describes the treatment as torture. Of course you know it may be painful at times, but also that it is necessary for your health, and the dentist will be as gentle as he can, but he is there to help you heal, and your mouth to be free of disease that can lead to loss of teeth or worse.

If you tell your child she needs surgery to remove her appendix, will you describe it as torture? Or will you explain why she has a condition that could be very dangerous, and the doctor wants to remove the thing that is causing her pain. Of course you will tell her the doctors and nurses will take good care of her, and even if it hurts a while as she is healing, soon she will be all better and the pain will go away.

It would be a bad parent or friend who describes such treatment as torture, that is meant to be healing.

 

[Toni]

thistle:

The punishment is that we are still separated from being with God eternally and that we have to go through a purifying process before we can be fully united with God.
Do not try to imply its a place of punishment like Hell because that is simply not true!!

Your free will is gone and your only desire is to be with God.
The burning is the desire to be with him.