Purification of Sacred Vessels-CONCERNS

[alexl437]

I am a new altar server and, in fact, a new Catholic (having been received into the Church at Easter). I am also someone who is very careful when it comes to the Most Holy Eucharist. For example, I always receive Communion on the tongue and even get nervous sometimes during the Peace when I shake the priest’s hands in case any particles get transferred onto my hands. There are a few things that I have noticed recently in my parish as an altar server that get me very worried.

First:
My parish hasn’t had a stable priest for months, we have different priests each mass to cover. Sometimes the priest will only purify the chalice at mass and won’t purify any ciboria or the paten. Having to handle sacred vessels, I sometimes notice many tiny fragments that are still present. What should I do in this situation? Also, often the priest doesn’t wash his fingers after communion as well.

Second:
There is a bin in the sacristy with a small plastic carrier bag inside that we are supposed to put the purificators (which are stained with the Precious Blood) in after mass. My understanding is that whoever, simply washes these in the washing machine as normal with their other washing without any prior-preparation or “cleansing”. Again, what should I do in this situation?

Third:
If I am in the congregation at mass and NOT serving, I always kneel upon returning to my pew after having received Communion. When I am serving however, all the altar servers simply just sit back down, then kneel when the communion line has finished. Apart from issues with reverence etc, it doesn’t make sense to me, being someone who kneels to receive the Eucharist (which I do get many looks for, but I don’t care ) then just sitting down. So, do you think I should just go ahead and kneel regardless of whether I get told off or anything?

Sorry for the long essay, I am new to this website and was just really concerned about these things as I appear to attend a very liberal NO parish.

Thanks!

 

[pianistclare]

First of all, welcome, but PLEASE Stop referring to your parish as a NO Parish. There is no such thing. It’s your parish. Period.
Only priests and Deacons are permitted to purify vessels in our Archdiocese.
I suggest you go online, look up the training for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, and read that document.

Do not concern yourself with the Sacristan’s job. He or she knows how to do it.
If you suffer from scruples, see your priest about it. You seem to see abuse everywhere.

Just who do you think is going to tell you off for kneeling in the congregation? No one will.

You are making many assumptions here The people who altar serve have also been trained. If you disagree with the training, you’ll have to take that up with the appropriate person instead of assuming they are doing wrong.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

I’ll second the welcome and also concur with Clare. Nothing you’ve written smacks of “liberal”, either. While I appreciate your concern for the reverence due the Eucharist, it does strike me that you might be dealing with scrupulous tendencies. Speak to a priest if you have concerns, but remember that you are there to focus on worshipping the Lord, not criticizing or policing others’ behaviors which are either not significant (whether the servers kneel at any given moment or not, it appears they are kneeling eventually) or simply assumptions (you “understand” how the linens are cleaned, but do you know?).

 

[TeenCatholicGuy]

I am a new altar server and, in fact, a new Catholic (having been received into the Church at Easter). I am also someone who is very careful when it comes to the Most Holy Eucharist. For example, I always receive Communion on the tongue and even get nervous sometimes during the Peace when I shake the priest’s hands in case any particles get transferred onto my hands. There are a few things that I have noticed recently in my parish as an altar server that get me very worried.

First:
My parish hasn’t had a stable priest for months, we have different priests each mass to cover. Sometimes the priest will only purify the chalice at mass and won’t purify any ciboria or the paten. Having to handle sacred vessels, I sometimes notice many tiny fragments that are still present. What should I do in this situation? Also, often the priest doesn’t wash his fingers after communion as well.

Second:
There is a bin in the sacristy with a small plastic carrier bag inside that we are supposed to put the purificators (which are stained with the Precious Blood) in after mass. My understanding is that whoever, simply washes these in the washing machine as normal with their other washing without any prior-preparation or “cleansing”. Again, what should I do in this situation?

Third:
If I am in the congregation at mass and NOT serving, I always kneel upon returning to my pew after having received Communion. When I am serving however, all the altar servers simply just sit back down, then kneel when the communion line has finished. Apart from issues with reverence etc, it doesn’t make sense to me, being someone who kneels to receive the Eucharist (which I do get many looks for, but I don’t care ) then just sitting down. So, do you think I should just go ahead and kneel regardless of whether I get told off or anything?

Sorry for the long essay, I am new to this website and was just really concerned about these things as I appear to attend a very liberal NO parish.

Thanks!

1)welcome and:
As an altar server myself, I’ll make it clear.

It isn’t your job to handle the vessels in such manners.

If you actually have concerns, talk to the presider.

1. you shouldn’t need to worry about this.
2. Just don’t worry about it, worry about your responsibilities.

 

[fliesnow]

With all due respect to both pianistclare and Cor ad Cor, OP does ask a few legitimate points. While I agree that the partisan statements are unnecessary, the questions deserve examination.

Starting easy, #3. Diocese differ in what communicants are allowed to do when returning to the pews. Most say kneel or stand until either the tabernacle has been closed or the celebrant has seated himself. That being said, unless you are yourself in charge of the alter servers (which, based on how recent you joined, I assume you are not), it is too petty an issue to take up. Your piety is admirable, but this is a case of “pointing out the speck” in their eyes. Beware of the pride that often accompanies outward piety.

#1 & #2 are a bit harder, made all the more difficult by the instability of your parish’s leadership. Even if you have no Pastor, your parish should have a Parish Administrator to whom these concerns may be addressed. If not, a letter to the Bishop may be in order (to request that a PA be assigned, not about these issues).

In most circumstances, I would agree with the other posters that this is entering into scrupulous territory. However, given that the Blessed Sacrament is physically involved, avoiding sacrilege is a much higher concern than it is in most other cases. Especially in regards to #1, where OP is simply asking “What should I do here”.

The lack of a pastor makes answering either of these difficult, and I do not know the answers myself. For #1, I would recommend asking either the Sacristan or the “Head” Alter Server. If you get no answer from them, try asking one of the visiting priests who does purify the ciboria and paten. While it is true (as pianistclare mentioned) that in many diocese it is only an ordained minister who is allowed to purify the vessels, this may not be the case for your diocese. The rubrics all assume that the priest follows what is written, and if they don’t you often wander into “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” areas. You may not be allowed to purify the vessels (and if you haven’t been trained to do so you shouldn’t), but at the same time you should not let them go without purifying. Again, the best way to handle this is probably to ask one of the priests.

#2 is trickier. Given that you do not know for certain what is being done with the purificators, it is probably best to leave it be. Unless someone directly tells you how they clean them or you see it being done, probably best to leave it be. Focus on what you can do in your own job as alter server (ie, #1).

If any of those here know the official answers to any of these, then hear them out. If not, the best you can do is to as one of those who has actually been trained.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

part 1—

OK, liturgy!!! This has been my pet peeve for years and years.

First, let’s deal with your first point: you’re being over scrupulous about shaking hands, etc. Catholicism is, above all, a religion of common sense, not meaningless rules and rituals. If you always bear this in mind, you’re OK. You will find a lot of people trying to make it about meaningless rules and rituals–it’s not. Ignore them.

Fragments after communion: That’s not your problem, it’s the priest’s problem. If he ignores it, I don’t see why you can’t simply point out the fragments to him and let him deal with them. You would do the same in any job where a co-worker (or your boss) overlooked some necessary procedure. Why not do the same here?

Cleaning the purificators: same thing. Not your job. Of course they should be washed in a special sink that empties into a special container, not the regular sewer. That’s obvious. If you have a good reason for thinking that’s not being done, bring it to someone’s attention–just like you did in the preceding paragraph. If you were working in construction and saw a co-worker not following safety regulations, wouldn’t you tell your co-worker or supervisor? Of course you would…right?

Posture after communion: I’m not looking this up, but I believe everyone has the choice of kneeling or sitting during / after communion. As an altar server you’re faced with a further issue: should you all have a uniform posture? Simply from a “performance” point of view, I’d personally go with all the altar servers doing the same thing rather than every one doing something different, despite your personal inclinations.

Although there are universal norms, there are also things in the Mass that are left to the national conferences of bishops to decide. If you are in the US, this is the USCCB. There are different forms of the Mass; not just Eastern rite, etc. but some religious orders have their own rites, etc. However, let’s assume for the sake of the discussion you’re in the US and you are at an ordinary parish. Beyond the national differences, there are a few minor rules that the bishop of a diocese has control over. So you may notice some slight differences if, for example, you go to Mass in Denver vs. Baltimore.

You may notice no one so far has mentioned GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal), which is the basic “how to” for Mass. Here it is on the USCCB website:
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/

These are the official Vatican-approved instructions for saying Mass. Who does what, who says what, when, etc. all laid out in detail. And yet…very few people seem to be aware of it. Even priests, I am sorry to say. If you are at all concerned with the liturgy, it’s worth your while to print it out and read through it, highlighting areas of particular concern. It probably would take a half hour or less to go through it. Most of it is common sense, and most of it is followed automatically in all churches.

Here is one of your issues, for example:

GiRM #163: “Upon returning to the altar, the Priest collects the fragments, should any remain, and he stands at the altar or at the credence table and purifies the paten or ciborium over the chalice, and after this purifies the chalice, saying quietly the formula Quod ore sumpsimus, Domine (What has passed our lips), and dries the chalice with a purificator. If the vessels are purified at the altar, they are carried to the credence table by a minister. Nevertheless, it is also permitted to leave vessels needing to be purified, especially if there are several, on a corporal, suitably covered, either on the altar or on the credence table, and to purify them immediately after Mass, after the Dismissal of the people.”

There is also a “Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion…”
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/norms-for-holy-communion-under-both-kinds/index.cfm

#53 “The sacred vessels are to be purified by the Priest, the Deacon or an instituted acolyte.” Look up “acolyte” --it’s not just any old altar server, it’s a special position.

Now there are complications. Sometimes the Vatican allows a country (USA, for example) to try something on a trial basis (an “indult”). For example, in the early 2000s, the Eucharistic Ministers were allowed to clean the chalices after communion. But in 2006, Cardinal Arinze, on orders from Pope Benedict, wrote a letter to the USSCB and put an end to the practice. Some parishes seem unaware of this, even though it happened 11 years ago… If you are a new Catholic, you might not be aware that Pope Benedict put a lot more emphasis on following GIRM. Things today are much, much different than they were 10+ years ago, although I still see things that drive me crazy.

But you need to be aware of these special indults. Some are obsolete, like the one allowing Eucharistic Ministers to clean the chalice. But check it out–we have the internet!!! You can look it up!

One rule that is always violated as far as my own experience goes is #162: “These ministers [Eucharistic ministers] should not approach the altar before the Priest has received Communion…” So far I have never seen this rule followed.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

part 2–

Now my own opinion is that the rules should be followed. Why not? If the rules are not followed, it seems to me that there are two and only two possibilities: 1) ignorance of the rule; i.e., the person couldn’t be bothered to spend 15 minutes reading the rule or 2) willful disobedience; in other words, the person knows what the rule is, but decides not to follow it. Neither option seems very attractive to me. So although the things that still drive me crazy (for example, the priest plunging into the congregation to shake everyone’s hand at the sign of peace like a rock star–something forbidden in GIRM!!!) are dismissed as trivial by many Catholics, to me it’s a symptom of a much deeper problem–lack of obedience. And since priests have taken a vow of obedience…see the issue?

But often it’s just ignorance. At my own parish, they kept singing a hymn during the Consecration. As you might expect, this is forbidden in GIRM. Why? Common sense–the words of consecration are the key words in the whole Mass. You don’t drown them out with singing. I brought it to the priest’s attention with the proper reference to GIRM, and the singing stopped. So it’s not always disobedience.

But as I indicated above, I think you should treat Mass just like a job. If you see something you think is out of whack, let the person in charge know. If they decide not to fix it, that’s on them. If it’s something major (like on the job–what if your supervisor was doing something illegal that could destroy the company?) you might want to write a letter to the bishop. But until you become either a priest or a bishop, bear in mind that you are just a humble worker. Do your own job well, let someone know (once!) if you see a problem, and don’t put yourself in the self-appointed position of enforcer.

Finally, a wonderful resource for all these questions is www.adoremus.org Their only concern is the liturgy, and you can easily search their website for answers to virtually any question.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I’m not a sacristan and not familiar with the procedures for vessel cleaning, but as far as serving at the altar goes–nobody should be doing their own thing. They should be doing what they were instructed to do. There should be uniformity of posture. When you are not serving, do as you please, because standing, sitting, or kneeling are all acceptable. So do what the other servers are doing while at the altar.

People do notice the servers, and if one is doing their own thing, believe me, the priest will be informed by someone, if he hasn’t noticed it himself.

 

[pianistclare]

part 2–

Now my own opinion is that the rules should be followed. Why not? If the rules are not followed, it seems to me that there are two and only two possibilities: 1) ignorance of the rule; i.e., the person couldn’t be bothered to spend 15 minutes reading the rule or 2) willful disobedience; in other words, the person knows what the rule is, but decides not to follow it. Neither option seems very attractive to me. So although the things that still drive me crazy (for example, the priest plunging into the congregation to shake everyone’s hand at the sign of peace like a rock star–something forbidden in GIRM!!!) are dismissed as trivial by many Catholics, to me it’s a symptom of a much deeper problem–lack of obedience. And since priests have taken a vow of obedience…see the issue?

But often it’s just ignorance. At my own parish, they kept singing a hymn during the Consecration. As you might expect, this is forbidden in GIRM. Why? Common sense–the words of consecration are the key words in the whole Mass. You don’t drown them out with singing. I brought it to the priest’s attention with the proper reference to GIRM, and the singing stopped. So it’s not always disobedience.

**But as I indicated above, I think you should treat Mass just like a job. **If you see something you think is out of whack, let the person in charge know. If they decide not to fix it, that’s on them. If it’s something major (like on the job–what if your supervisor was doing something illegal that could destroy the company?) you might want to write a letter to the bishop. But until you become either a priest or a bishop, bear in mind that you are just a humble worker. Do your own job well, let someone know (once!) if you see a problem, and don’t put yourself in the self-appointed position of enforcer.

Finally, a wonderful resource for all these questions is www.adoremus.org Their only concern is the liturgy, and you can easily search their website for answers to virtually any question.

Can’t disagree with the bolded more.
Mass is no one’s “job”. The Liturgy is not anyone’s personal possession or preference.
It’s the Priest’s proper place to ensure that things are done correctly.
I’m always amazed that persons who think they know better than their priest, often also fail to recognize that other long and respected “tradition” of obedience.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Can’t disagree with the bolded more.
Mass is no one’s “job”. The Liturgy is not anyone’s personal possession or preference.
It’s the Priest’s proper place to ensure that things are done correctly.
I’m always amazed that persons who think they know better than their priest, often also fail to recognize that other long and respected “tradition” of obedience.

I was going to let all that go, but on further reflection, I won’t.

My point about “job” was simply that the OP was taking serving at Mass out of the realm of his everyday experiences. Sometimes that’s a good thing. In this case, I don’t think it is because if you ask yourself what you would do in a similar situation if it were a job, the answer becomes pretty clear. That was my only point.

I agree with you: “The liturgy is not anyone’s personal possession or preference.” That includes priests. GIRM specifically forbids priests from changing the rules on a whim.

Your last sentence could be interpreted several ways, but let me be more explicit: I’m not saying I know better than a priest; I’m saying the Vatican and USSCB know more than a priest. If the Vatican and USSCB have issued a set of rules, and the priest decides he wants to do things differently, do you obey the priest or the Vatican & USSCB? I think that should be fairly clear: the Vatican and USSCB.

 

[pianistclare]

I was going to let all that go, but on further reflection, I won’t.

My point about “job” was simply that the OP was taking serving at Mass out of the realm of his everyday experiences. Sometimes that’s a good thing. In this case, I don’t think it is because if you ask yourself what you would do in a similar situation if it were a job, the answer becomes pretty clear. That was my only point.

I agree with you: “The liturgy is not anyone’s personal possession or preference.” That includes priests. GIRM specifically forbids priests from changing the rules on a whim.

Your last sentence could be interpreted several ways, but let me be more explicit: I’m not saying I know better than a priest; I’m saying the Vatican and USSCB know more than a priest. If the Vatican and USSCB have issued a set of rules, and the priest decides he wants to do things differently, do you obey the priest or the Vatican & USSCB? I think that should be fairly clear: the Vatican and USSCB.

The last sentence was not directed at you Erika.
But…in practice…we must obey our pastors. They in turn, should enforce the rubrics. Which would eliminate the “need to make a call on the matter”.
Peace.