Purifying Cups

[sacristan1]

I know this has come up before but now it is affecting me. What is one to do when your priest tells you to purify the cups in the Sacristy. I cannot be disobedient to my priest but I also know the directive was passed down from the the Pope that we are not allowed to do this. What advice can you offer me.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I would talk to my priest and tell him I was uncomfortable with purifying the cups since the indult that allowed lay people to do it had expired. He’s either going to say “oh yeah, you’re right…I forgot” and will do it himself, or he’ll say “oh that doesn’t matter, do it anyway.” If he says the latter then you will need to decide whether to follow his instructions or step down from your position.

 

[benedictgal]

I would talk to my priest and tell him I was uncomfortable with purifying the cups since the indult that allowed lay people to do it had expired. He’s either going to say “oh yeah, you’re right…I forgot” and will do it himself, or he’ll say “oh that doesn’t matter, do it anyway.” If he says the latter then you will need to decide whether to follow his instructions or step down from your position.

In charity, you do need to tell the priest that the Holy Father did not renew the indult and that he is required to purity the sacred vessels. It’s not a question of whether the priest has that call to make; the Holy Father pretty much did it for him. It’s almost like that country song, “What part of no don’t you understand?” You cannot, in good conscience, do something to which Rome has already said “no.” It’s stuff like this that got Henry VIII in trouble. It may seem like a relatively minor thing, but, then, it’s all downhill from here.

 

[quiet52]

All U.S. bishops, and all parish priests, are fully aware that the indult has been lifted. They are still balking at following through with the Vatican directive issued in Oct. 2006. Many claim that “the issue has not yet been settled” because allegedly it takes too much time for the priest or deacon to purify the sacred vessels during mass, and affects the mass schedules. The priests are busy greeting the parishioners after mass.

If an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion feels too uncomfortable purifying the vessels after mass, he or she should make this known to the pastor, and offer to resign if something else can’t be worked out. But remember that if there is any sin of disobedience, it would be on the priests and bishops, not on the lay person.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I know this has come up before but now it is affecting me. What is one to do when your priest tells you to purify the cups in the Sacristy. I cannot be disobedient to my priest but I also know the directive was passed down from the the Pope that we are not allowed to do this. What advice can you offer me.

Tell him that the laity are no longer permitted to purify, that a priest or deacon must do this.

 

[docholmes]

Many claim that “the issue has not yet been settled” because allegedly it takes too much time for the priest or deacon to purify the sacred vessels during mass, and affects the mass schedules. The priests are busy greeting the parishioners after mass.

Hey, If it’s about time, let’s go back to the “Ordinary” and receive under only one species. That’ll Solve that, the priest and deacon communicate out of the Chalice, the Priest or Deacon Purifies it, it goes to the Credence Table, Much time saved for building “Community” for those who feel that Community is “Just as Important” as the Eucharist Guess we wouldn’t have to Figure out when ALL of those EXTRAordinary Mnisters of Communion would/should enter the santuary either

 

[Brendan]

I cannot be disobedient to my priest but I also know the directive was passed down from the the Pope that we are not allowed to do this. .

It’s not being disobedient to the priest to let know know that you do not have the authority to to do what he asks of you.

 

[sacristan1]

Thanks to all of you who responded to my request. I have had a talk with my Priest about this situation a few months ago after which he was very good about taking care of purifying the cups, then all of a sudden it has again become an issue whereby I have been told that it is a sacristan’s job. After a long deliberation regarding this matter last evening, he finally did take care of it. I have done this once in the past when I was left with the decision of letting the Precious Blood sit unattended over night or purifying the vessels myself, my decision was, of course, to purify them rather than let the Precious Blood sit overnight. I knew it was wrong, my heart told me it was when I agonized about it for days before I spoke with my Priest, and I pray the Lord will know and understand why I had to do this. What I can’t accept is that it is my job…when I know I am not permitted to do this as a layperson. I love what I do, I know my Priest appreciates all that I do and I know he needs help because he is the only Priest now, so I think we should go back to only one species, but with that said, the parishioners will not be happy if he takes that stand of only one species of Communion. I feel I have no choice but to resign if this continues to present itself.

 

[John_Lilburne]

There is a ritual purification that should be done by the bishop, priest, deacon or instituted acolyte. After that there is a more complete cleaning that can be done by the sacristan.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“279. The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table. The purification of the chalice is done with water alone or with wine and water, which is then drunk by whoever does the purification. The paten is usually wiped clean with the purificator.
Care must be taken that whatever may remain of the Blood of Christ after the distribution of Communion is consumed immediately and completely at the altar.”

The Ceremonial of Bishops includes under the heading “Sacristan”:
“…38 The first of all the elements belonging to the beauty of the place where the liturgy is celebrated is the spotless cleanliness of the floor and walls and of all the images and articles that will be used or seen during a service. …”.
(Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 27).

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

*Lay ministers may not cleanse Communion vessels, Pope Benedict says

By Nancy Frazier O’Brien
Catholic News Service

WASHINGTON (CNS) – At the direction of Pope Benedict XVI, extraordinary ministers of holy Communion will no longer be permitted to assist in the purification of the sacred vessels at Masses in the United States.

In an Oct. 23 letter, Bishop William S. Skylstad, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, asked his fellow bishops to inform all pastors of the change, which was prompted by a letter from Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments.

The U.S. bishops had asked the Vatican to extend an indult – or church permission – in effect since 2002 allowing extraordinary ministers of holy Communion to help cleanse the Communion cups and plates when there were not enough priests or deacons to do so.

Bishop Skylstad, who heads the Diocese of Spokane, Wash., said Cardinal Arinze asked Pope Benedict about the matter during a June 9 audience, “and received a response in the negative.”

Noting that the General Instruction of the Roman Missal “directs that the sacred vessels are to be purified by the priest, the deacon or an instituted acolyte,” the cardinal said in his Oct. 12 letter that “it does not seem feasible, therefore, for the congregation to grant the requested indult from this directive in the general law of the Latin Church.”

Although receiving Communion under both kinds is a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning, Cardinal Arinze said, “Christ is fully present under each of the species.”

“Communion under the species of the bread alone, as a consequence, makes it possible to receive all the fruit of eucharistic grace,” he added.

Another “legitimate option” when “the high number of communicants may render it inadvisable for everyone to drink from the chalice” is intinction – the practice of dipping the consecrated host into the consecrated wine – “with reception on the tongue always and everywhere,” the cardinal’s letter said.

Along with the letters from Bishop Skylstad and Cardinal Arinze, bishops received a new resource prepared by the bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy titled “Seven Questions on the Distribution of Holy Communion Under Both Kinds.”

The committee document also suggested distribution of Communion by consecrated bread alone or by intinction when the number of communicants makes the purification of vessels by priests, deacons or instituted acolytes alone “pastorally problematic.”

“Priests should also keep in mind potential risks associated with intinction, especially in the coming flu season,” the document added.

The committee said extraordinary ministers of holy Communion may continue to “consume what remains of the precious blood from their chalice of distribution with permission of the diocesan bishop.”

The document notes that the “extraordinary ministry” by which laypeople distribute Communion “was created exclusively for those instances where there are not enough ordinary ministers to distribute holy Communion, due to the consummate importance of assuring that the faithful have the opportunity to receive holy Communion at Mass, even when it is distributed under both species.”

Ordinary ministers of Communion are priests and deacons, with instituted acolytes being permitted in the Roman Missal to help the priest or deacon “to purify and arrange the sacred vessels.”

In the United States, instituted acolytes, who must be male, generally are seminarians preparing for priesthood.*

 

[gallo]

Does this include sanitizing (washing with soap & water) after Mass even though the priest consumed and purified the vessels after communion?

 

[Phemie]

Does this include sanitizing (washing with soap & water) after Mass even though the priest consumed and purified the vessels after communion?

No, once the vessels have been purified by the priest/deacon/instituted acolyte anyone may wash them – in our parish that responsibility belongs to the EMHCs.

In our parish though Fr. refuses to purify the vessels. His reason: “Our diocese hasn’t implemented that document.” His statement is correct even if his actions aren’t.

 

[sacristan1]

Which comes AGAIN the question of obedience. Are we to be first obedient to our Pastor even though he is not following the norms of the Church or do we leave our position when our conscience can’t handle going against the Vatican directive even if we feel we have been called to these ministries. This is a huge problem for me at this point. I just don’t understand why these things must come up. The rules are made for a purpose as are all the norms of the Church, the reason for this one I don’t know and if anyone could shed some light on this perhaps it would help me to decide what I have to do. I just know I can’t do this unless I see something from the Vatican or Bishop that tells me it is okay.

 

[Brendan]

Which comes AGAIN the question of obedience. .

No, it’s not a question of obedience. A pastor may only ask you to do what you are capable of actually doing.

As a non Acolyte layperson, you cannot purify the vessels.

This is morally no different from the priest asking you to flap your wing and fly, and you telling him that you do not have the ability to do that.

Would not flying at your pastor’s order be considered to be disobedient? No way.

And neither is this.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

No, once the vessels have been purified by the priest/deacon/instituted acolyte anyone may wash them – in our parish that responsibility belongs to the EMHCs.

In our parish though Fr. refuses to purify the vessels. His reason: “Our diocese hasn’t implemented that document.” His statement is correct even if his actions aren’t.

Actually there is nothing to implement. It was a permission that was removed. It is something that is now prohibited, not something that needs to be implemented.

 

[Phemie]

Actually there is nothing to implement. It was a permission that was removed. It is something that is now prohibited, not something that needs to be implemented.

While what you say is true, AFAIK, that indult was never granted to Canada but priests here piggy-backed on what they saw happening in the US (kind of like the American priests who use the Canadian Lectionaries).

When Redemptionis Sacramentum came out I gave it to the priest who was the pastor at the time and he immediately implemented the changes. However, his successor didn’t want to do what RS called for, particularly the purification, and the bishop told him “You don’t have to, we haven’t implemented that document.” Explains why the Cathedral is still using glass chalices and glass plates instead of ciboria. Also remember that in Canada the 2002 GIRM has not been implemented and it won’t be until the new translation of the Roman Missal is received.

 

[John_Lilburne]

…When Redemptionis Sacramentum came out I gave it to the priest who was the pastor at the time and he immediately implemented the changes. However, his successor didn’t want to do what RS called for, particularly the purification, and the bishop told him “You don’t have to, we haven’t implemented that document.” Explains why the Cathedral is still using glass chalices and glass plates instead of ciboria…

Perhaps it would be worth highlighting to the bishop, and all concerned, that bit near the end of Redemptionis Sacramentum:
“This Instruction, prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by mandate of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was approved by the same Pontiff on the Solemnity of St. Joseph, 19 March 2004, and he ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned.”

 

[benedictgal]

Perhaps it would be worth highlighting to the bishop, and all concerned, that bit near the end of Redemptionis Sacramentum:
“This Instruction, prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by mandate of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was approved by the same Pontiff on the Solemnity of St. Joseph, 19 March 2004, and he ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned.”

Furthermore, guess who’s fingerprints are all over that document?

in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

And, just who happened to be prefect of said Congregation at the time all of this was written? It is none other than the current Supreme Pontiff, the former ***Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger ***who is now Pope Benedict XVI. My how the wheels have turned. Even then he was beginning the reform of the reform, not knowing that he would wind up on the Chair of Peter.

In all seriousness, it is sad when priests and bishops take directives such as Redemptionis Sacramentum as mere recommendations that they can pass on when they don’t believe they are necessary.