"Puritanical" Catholics?

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A few centuries ago Catholic Puritans (called Jansenits) condemned all worldliness and sensuality–but the Church officially rejected their teaching.
Many of us who come from Northern European backgrounds (especially Irish and German) inherited this Jansenistic negativity anyway, Priests and Nuns and others who shaped attitudes often portrayed sexual misconduct as the worst possible sin. As Americans we also adopted a good deal of puritanism from our Protestant neighbors. Our immigrant grandparents didn’t want to appear less moral than the people around them.
The older and larger Catholic tradition, however, has mediterranean roots. Palestinians and Greeks, Italians and the French, Spanish and Portuguese have generally been more comfortable with their bodies than Northern Europeans. Peasents and poor people have always been among those who appreciate the good things that nature has to offer. Food and drink, sex and children are the simple but most basic pleasures that life can give us. They are after all, gifts from God intended for our enjoyment.

Peace
 
is this leading to a point of Catholic moral teaching you wish to debate or to learn more about?
 
DocSoos said:
A few centuries ago Catholic Puritans (called Jansenits) condemned all worldliness and sensuality–but the Church officially rejected their teaching.
Many of us who come from Northern European backgrounds (especially Irish and German) inherited this Jansenistic negativity anyway, Priests and Nuns and others who shaped attitudes often portrayed sexual misconduct as the worst possible sin. As Americans we also adopted a good deal of puritanism from our Protestant neighbors. Our immigrant grandparents didn’t want to appear less moral than the people around them.
The older and larger Catholic tradition, however, has mediterranean roots. Palestinians and Greeks, Italians and the French, Spanish and Portuguese have generally been more comfortable with their bodies than Northern Europeans. Peasents and poor people have always been among those who appreciate the good things that nature has to offer. Food and drink, sex and children are the simple but most basic pleasures that life can give us. They are after all, gifts from God intended for our enjoyment.

Peace
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May I suggest that the seriousnes of sexual immorality existed long before the Jansenists. In fact, it is in the earliest teachings of the Church. In Paul’s letter to the Corinthians he states:
Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body.

1 Cor 6:18​
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DocSoos said:
A few centuries ago Catholic Puritans (called Jansenits) condemned all worldliness and sensuality–but the Church officially rejected their teaching.
Many of us who come from Northern European backgrounds (especially Irish and German) inherited this Jansenistic negativity anyway, Priests and Nuns and others who shaped attitudes often portrayed sexual misconduct as the worst possible sin. As Americans we also adopted a good deal of puritanism from our Protestant neighbors. Our immigrant grandparents didn’t want to appear less moral than the people around them.
The older and larger Catholic tradition, however, has mediterranean roots. Palestinians and Greeks, Italians and the French, Spanish and Portuguese have generally been more comfortable with their bodies than Northern Europeans. Peasents and poor people have always been among those who appreciate the good things that nature has to offer. Food and drink, sex and children are the simple but most basic pleasures that life can give us. They are after all, gifts from God intended for our enjoyment.

Peace
Click to expand...
The biggest problem with puritanical beliefs is the insinuation of pride that comes with them. Sense pride is the sin of the devil and also can pervert charitable works and holiness it is far more dangerous than sins of the flesh.

It is only in a balance of holy devotion, and humility that we find balance in faith.
 
The OP is entirely correct as written. But I’m not sure where the point is.

Food is a God-given pleasure to be enjoyed. But surely nobody here an argue against the fact that gluttony and resulting obesity are harmful to humanity in both body and soul.

Wine is cleary a good thing (or Jesus wouldn’t have made more at Cana), but again nobody here is ignorant enough to just say “go at it all you want!”

Sex is more than just a good thing, it is a holy thing. But just like with food and wine, there are plenty of ways to abuse and misuse the gifts God has given us.

The trick is to discern the proper intention and meaning of every gift of God and avoid the misuse and abuse of them. Good thing we have a Church to help us figure all that out.
 
manualman said:
The OP is entirely correct as written. But I’m not sure where the point is.

Food is a God-given pleasure to be enjoyed. But surely nobody here an argue against the fact that gluttony and resulting obesity are harmful to humanity in both body and soul.

Wine is cleary a good thing (or Jesus wouldn’t have made more at Cana), but again nobody here is ignorant enough to just say “go at it all you want!”

Sex is more than just a good thing, it is a holy thing. But just like with food and wine, there are plenty of ways to abuse and misuse the gifts God has given us.

The trick is to discern the proper intention and meaning of every gift of God and avoid the misuse and abuse of them. Good thing we have a Church to help us figure all that out.
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Exactly. And, for many of us, it takes the Church, as often the Natural Law is ignored.

Merry Christmas and
God bless,
JD
 
JDaniel said:
Exactly. And, for many of us, it takes the Church, as often the Natural Law is ignored.

Merry Christmas and
God bless,
JD
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Agreed, except to the OP’s point, for many who were formed in the Northern European “Jansenistic - influenced” Church culture as that was to be found in various (especially New England) places in the 40’s, 50’s, and early 60’s, “the Church” became the local pastor, Pre-Cana team, parochial school nuns, high school teaching brothers, etc., whose interpretations could and did take on a highly negative, fearful, and suspicious tone in matters marital and sexual - negativity that was likely beyond what “the Church” officially taught.

And nevermind just “sexual misconduct.” I’m guessing that “Tony and Maria’s” marriage prep at “St. Rocco’s” (if I could use a stereotype) left them feeling much more positive and less fearful about marital intimacy than “Michael and Bridget’s” marriage prep at “St. Patrick’s,” at least if we’re talking about the 1950’s or so.
 
nmoerbeek said:
The biggest problem with puritanical beliefs is the insinuation of pride that comes with them. Sense pride is the sin of the devil and also can pervert charitable works and holiness it is far more dangerous than sins of the flesh.

It is only in a balance of holy devotion, and humility that we find balance in faith.
Click to expand...
:yup:
 
In my personal opinion, everytime I see or know of another who sins to Our Lord, I should be able to say to myself, “but for the grace of God go I”. If and when I can’t I’m being a Jansenist (puritan) and pharisaical. (This happens to me all too often, I’m afraid :o 😊 ).
 
manualman said:
The OP is entirely correct as written. But I’m not sure where the point is.

Food is a God-given pleasure to be enjoyed. But surely nobody here an argue against the fact that gluttony and resulting obesity are harmful to humanity in both body and soul.

Wine is cleary a good thing (or Jesus wouldn’t have made more at Cana), but again nobody here is ignorant enough to just say “go at it all you want!”

Sex is more than just a good thing, it is a holy thing. But just like with food and wine, there are plenty of ways to abuse and misuse the gifts God has given us.

The trick is to discern the proper intention and meaning of every gift of God and avoid the misuse and abuse of them. Good thing we have a Church to help us figure all that out.
Click to expand...
I think you pretty much summed it up. Equilibrium is the key stone of harmony; Spiritually, morally, and materialisticlly. When one goes to far either way on the spectrum of morality, it *always *causes problems.
 
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