Purpose of Life!

[Jim_Baur]

Oh, I saw that you were in MN.

Just wondering. I did go to CST, when it was called that.

I have never been back; it is a great city or cities. That is all.

 

[BobCatholic]

Other translations render this “be holy…”. By not being perfect I mean not struggling to try to become something we can’t all on our own. To be holy and grow in holiness we need God’s grace. We can do nothing spiritual without it.

Agreed! Why wouldn’t God create us perfect in the first place. That way we could be in the Garden of Eden. I promise I would never touch that tree!

God doesn’t always heal our bodies or minds (most such latter illness is probably due to chemical imbalances in the brain). Here we let God do what he wills and simply trust, knowing that whatever we go through now is for our eternal good. St. Paul prayed three times to have his “thorn in the flesh” removed. He finally had to say, as Our Lord Jesus did in the garden, “Not my will but yours be done.” God uses our weaknesses to make us strong in the spirit. This is what God told St. Paul, “My strength is sufficient for you.” If God has not healed you he wishes you to use your weakness and wants you to simply rest in him and not focus on it. We all have such things in our lives. It’s part of carrying our cross.

I hate my weaknesses. I hate my imperfections. They offend God because he punishes me for them. I absolutely hate being imperfect. They make me worthless, useless and of no value or dignity.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I believe that the meaning of life is: Intimacy with God.

I need Bible ideas!

Any help?

So, you have an idea that you believe in having your fellow believers help you substantiate your beliefs that are found in a book you also believe in yet believe others will read to back up such a claim…

 

[Jim_Baur]

Yes, I need help!

What if there are many gods?

 

[EricFilmer]

Then why does God require us to suffer if that is not the purpose of life?

In asking the question, “What is the purpose of life?” we are basically asking why God created us. I quoted what Jesus said are the greatest of the commandments in order to answer this question, and (name removed by moderator) quoted the Baltimore Catechism’s classic response (which is basically an elaboration on the greatest of the commandments). Although life involves suffering, we were not created to suffer. Consider the fact that in Eden Adam and Eve were created to live in perfect peace and harmony with no suffering, so suffering was not part of the initial purpose of life. God also desires to restore us to such a paradise in heaven, so suffering is not the ultimate purpose of life either. Rather, suffering is a consequence of sin which we are to endure during our time on earth, so it is, by definition, temporary. When we consider that we are destined for immortality, nothing that is a solely temporary experience can be said to be the ultimate purpose of life.

 

[Jim_Baur]

We were created to have loving intimacy with God! That is a safe teaching! I am the OP.

 

[EricFilmer]

I don’t understand suffering. The Catholic faith has the greatest amount of explanations for why there is suffering and I get that. What I don’t get is the part where we are punished for Adam’s sin temporally, not spiritually.

I’m about to take a big road trip so I only have time for a brief response. Immortality lived without suffering was what God intended for all of humanity when he created Adam & Eve. This gift was to be passed down from generation to generation. Therefore, we should think of it as an inheritance.

Sin is a rejection of God and therefore is a rejection of all that God is, including life, peace and joy. When Adam & Eve sinned, they consequently accepted death over life, suffering & toil over bliss, disharmony over joy, etc. And because the gifts of God were meant to be passed down to us, Adam and Eve, in effect, “blew our inheritance.” So in terms of Original Sin, I think it’s helpful to think of it more like a lost inheritance and less as an extended punishment. Keep in mind that I’m not rejecting the notion that sin involves an aspect of punishment, I’m only suggesting that the idea of an inheritance is deserving of the greater focus in trying to have a better understanding of all this (which is, of course, ultimately a mystery to us).

Jesus came to earth as the New Adam who gives us the grace to be freed from sin and he restores our inheritance, which we can enjoy in some measure while still on earth, and enjoy in its fullest measure in heaven.

 

[EricFilmer]

We were created to have loving intimacy with God! That is a safe teaching! I am the OP.

Sounds good to me, Jim. Let me clarify that in Post #12 my intention was to answer your request for a biblical passage expressing the purpose of having loving intimacy with God (which Jesus said is the first and greatest commandment). But because Jesus immediately added that “the second is like unto it: love your neighbor as yourself” I think it is good to keep the love of God linked with the love of one another.

 

[EricFilmer]

Yes, I need help!

What if there are many gods?

I’m not sure what you mean here, Jim. From a Christian perspective, there aren’t many gods so having loving intimacy with fictional beings cannot be the purpose of life.

But let me address this from an unbiased, philosophical perspective (which is what I think your getting at, but please correct me if I’m wrong). Let us propose (purely for the sake of this discussion) that in addition to God the Father there are other gods. Seeing as God the Father is my creator, only he can tell me what my purpose in life is. God has revealed that this purpose is to love him and “our neighbor as ourselves.” Our neighbor is understood to be other humans. We are not commanded to love other beings aside from this. For example, we are not specifically told to love the angels in heaven (although it is a very fitting thing to do so) and naturally we do not love demons. My point is that if the purpose of life (as revealed in God’s commandments) do not address the angels (who do exist) then it does not address any theoretical supernatural beings such as other gods.

Anyway, I’m about to take a big road trip and won’t be able to continue this discussion for awhile, so I hope this was helpful. If not then this particular aspect of the discussion is probably worth its own thread, and would get more (name removed by moderator)ut and participation in the Philosophy Forum.

 

[BobCatholic]

Sin is a rejection of God and therefore is a rejection of all that God is, including life, peace and joy. When Adam & Eve sinned, they consequently accepted death over life, suffering & toil over bliss, disharmony over joy, etc. And because the gifts of God were meant to be passed down to us, Adam and Eve, in effect, “blew our inheritance.”

That’s right. THEY did the crime, let THEM do the time.

Put me in the Garden of Eden, I promise I will never touch that tree! I’ll even go snake hunting with a baseball bat.

 

[Della]

That’s right. THEY did the crime, let THEM do the time.

Put me in the Garden of Eden, I promise I will never touch that tree! I’ll even go snake hunting with a baseball bat.

Would you really? Maybe, maybe not. Besides, there’s no going back to change what happened.

We are not paying for something we didn’t do–for Adam and Eve’s sin. Not in the way you mean it. We are paying the consequences of their actions. The question is why, yes?

Let’s say you have a trillion dollars you intend to pass on to your children. Through bad investments or worse, through committing crimes, you lose it all. What do you have to give to your children now? Nothing. Why? Because you squandered it. Are the children at fault for that? No? But will they inherit the money? No. Why? Because there is no money left for them to receive.

This is what happened with Adam and Eve. The grace they had and the gifts God had given them they forfeited when they sinned. They lost their ability to understand God’s law, their ability to keep God’s law, and their inclination to do so. They were wounded, and so unable to give to us, their children, what they no longer had. All of us are wounded in our intellect and consciences. This is why we sin again and again. We won’t be fully healed in mind, body, soul, and spirit until we die and are resurrected. If you fail, get up and go on. It’s the willingness to go on–to trust God and do as he says that pleases God.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

I think it is good to keep the love of God linked with the love of one another.

I agree, Jesus said what you do to the least of these brothers of mine, so you do unto me. It seems we can only show our love for Christ whom we have never met, by the way we treat the poor and oppressed, the naked, homeless, and the hungry.

Blessings

Eric

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Agreed! Why wouldn’t God create us perfect in the first place. That way we could be in the Garden of Eden. I promise I would never touch that tree!

I hate my weaknesses. I hate my imperfections. They offend God because he punishes me for them. I absolutely hate being imperfect. They make me worthless, useless and of no value or dignity.

Here are some Bible quotes that should be of some use to you. Do not despair no matter what is going on in your life.

2 Corinthians 12:9
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you

Psalm 34:17-20
When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all their troubles. The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken.

2 Corinthians 4:8-9
8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed

 

[Jim_Baur]

CHRISTINE77

Thanks for I Peter 5: 7.

He wants an intimate relationship with us–That is pure Mother Teresa!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

CHRISTINE77

Thanks for I Peter 5: 7.

He wants an intimate relationship with us–That is pure Mother Teresa!

Yes we are to have a close relationship to him, closer than anyone. He wants us to call upon him when we are in times of trouble, (or not). We are supposed to rely on the Lord all the time and not rely on our own understanding. I know we are also not to despair, because God is near to us all the time, especially when life is hard.

 

[BobCatholic]

Would you really? Maybe, maybe not. Besides, there’s no going back to change what happened.

We are not paying for something we didn’t do–for Adam and Eve’s sin. Not in the way you mean it. We are paying the consequences of their actions. The question is why, yes?

Let’s say you have a trillion dollars you intend to pass on to your children. Through bad investments or worse, through committing crimes, you lose it all. What do you have to give to your children now? Nothing. Why? Because you squandered it. Are the children at fault for that? No? But will they inherit the money? No. Why? Because there is no money left for them to receive.

But God could easily have returned that ‘money’ - by creating it.

He didn’t.

Therefore he is punishing us.

Genesis 3 is clear on this. We are under the same exact penalty they had.

We are being punished for Adam and Eve’s sin on a temporal basis only. Jesus Christ took care of the spiritual punishment, and saved us!

 

[irenaeuslyons]

But God could easily have returned that ‘money’ - by creating it.

He didn’t.

Therefore he is punishing us.

Genesis 3 is clear on this. We are under the same exact penalty they had.

We are being punished for Adam and Eve’s sin on a temporal basis only. Jesus Christ took care of the spiritual punishment, and saved us!

I agree with Della. We are not being punished for the sins of our parents. We are not guilty of original sin. To be punished for what we are not guilty of would be unjust. Yet God is infinitely Just. We are merely born with the stain of original sin. This stain which is passed down includes the deprivations that you are calling punishments. Della gave a great analogy. We do not merit any of what we are deprived of… therefore it is not punishment.

 

[Della]

But God could easily have returned that ‘money’ - by creating it.

He didn’t.

Therefore he is punishing us.

Genesis 3 is clear on this. We are under the same exact penalty they had.

We are being punished for Adam and Eve’s sin on a temporal basis only. Jesus Christ took care of the spiritual punishment, and saved us!

He sent his own Son to die on the Cross for us. Isn’t that enough? Through baptism we are new creations in Christ. If we cooperate with God’s grace, given to us in the Sacraments, we will not gravely sin and our natures will be transformed into that of Jesus himself. It’s a matter of cooperating with God–wanting to be holy. If you want to be holy, you will become holy by God’s grace. Jesus himself is our remedy.

 

[BobCatholic]

He sent his own Son to die on the Cross for us. Isn’t that enough?

That takes care of the spiritual punishment, and that is enough for that. I am grateful he did that, and praise his name.
HOWEVER, He didn’t take care of the temporal punishment which we are still under.

I agree with Della. We are not being punished for the sins of our parents. We are not guilty of original sin. To be punished for what we are not guilty of would be unjust. Yet God is infinitely Just. We are merely born with the stain of original sin. This stain which is passed down includes the deprivations that you are calling punishments. Della gave a great analogy. We do not merit any of what we are deprived of… therefore it is not punishment.

Let’s imagine that Adam and Eve did not sin and remained there. Do you not think their children would be allowed to stay in the Garden too? Of course they would. Using your reasoning, they would have to be kicked out because that’s how things are now.

God gave the gift of the Garden of Eden to all of humanity, since Adam apparently represents all of us in our temporal state. When he took it away, he took it away from all of humanity, and punished all of humanity.

Can’t have it both way. If Adam represented us all as the Catechism says, then the Garden of Eden was a gift to all of us. Taking away that gift is a punishment that God put on all of us.

And thus we are punished because of Adam’s sin, and yes, that is unjust in a negative way. We do not benefit.

BUT we have Salvation in Christ’s name which is unjust but in a positive way. Christ paid the penalty and we benefit.

 

[Della]

That takes care of the spiritual punishment, and that is enough for that. I am grateful he did that, and praise his name.
HOWEVER, He didn’t take care of the temporal punishment which we are still under.

Let’s imagine that Adam and Eve did not sin and remained there. Do you not think their children would be allowed to stay in the Garden too? Of course they would. Using your reasoning, they would have to be kicked out because that’s how things are now.

God gave the gift of the Garden of Eden to all of humanity, since Adam apparently represents all of us in our temporal state. When he took it away, he took it away from all of humanity, and punished all of humanity.

Can’t have it both way. If Adam represented us all as the Catechism says, then the Garden of Eden was a gift to all of us. Taking away that gift is a punishment that God put on all of us.

And thus we are punished because of Adam’s sin, and yes, that is unjust in a negative way. We do not benefit.

BUT we have Salvation in Christ’s name which is unjust but in a positive way. Christ paid the penalty and we benefit.

I don’t know where you learned all this but it is majorly twisted. Jesus paid the price in full–not in part. Wherever did you get the idea that he didn’t?

What do you think penance is for? Through the sacrament of reconciliation, we are given penance for the temporal punishment due to the sins we have committed. It’s so simple to pray the prayers or do the acts of charity assigned to us by the priest. We can erase temporal punishment by this means.

Don’t you know that there are saints who went straight to heaven because they did their temporal penance here on earth? Saints like St. Therese of Lisieux, just to name one. According to your thinking, heaven would be unobtainable.

Of course we still bear the wounds in our human nature from the fall. That’s not punishment that simply consequence. Jesus is the full and complete remedy for that as well as for the eternal punishment due to the sins we commit. This is why even those who have never heard of Christ may be saved–because of the work of Christ’s redemption. His finished work makes it possible for us to wipe out all punishment due to our sins, temporal and eternal.

I think you need to have a good long talk with your priest to help straighten out your thinking, my friend.