Purpose

[happyrain]

Is life’s only purpose life itself?

If that makes sense.

 

[Oreoracle]

Is life’s only purpose life itself?

If that makes sense.

Humans are used to the concept of “purpose.” We create tools, intending to use them a certain way, i.e., hammers. The presence of a hammer implies that nails are present, and the presence of nails implies that some sort of building material is present, i.e., wood. This chain exists in our minds because we know how hammers are intended to be used; we know their assigned function, or purpose. To create purpose means just that: to deem an object suitable to carry out a process or function. Many humans like to think that they were created for a reason, because they want to feel fulfilled…they want meaning.

But humans are not like tools. We are fully able to create our own meanings, whether or not we were created for a purpose. After all, the Maker’s–or God’s–wishes and our own may not coincide. How then, do we determine whose meaning is best? That’s where many theological debates begin.

So, does a being have a purpose for our lives? I don’t know. But I do know that I’m capable of enjoying life by finding my own meaning without knowing.

 

[wardrandolph]

Humans are used to the concept of “purpose.” We create tools, intending to use them a certain way, i.e., hammers. The presence of a hammer implies that nails are present, and the presence of nails implies that some sort of building material is present, i.e., wood. This chain exists in our minds because we know how hammers are intended to be used; we know their assigned function, or purpose. To create purpose means just that: to deem an object suitable to carry out a process or function. Many humans like to think that they were created for a reason, because they want to feel fulfilled…they want meaning.

But humans are not like tools. We are fully able to create our own meanings, whether or not we were created for a purpose. After all, the Maker’s–or God’s–wishes and our own may not coincide. How then, do we determine whose meaning is best? That’s where many theological debates begin.

So, does a being have a purpose for our lives? I don’t know. But I do know that I’m capable of enjoying life by finding my own meaning without knowing.

I’d rather be a hammer than a nailI’m sorry.I could’nt help it.Our purpose for being created is to love God and serve Him.Our "purpose"is to do His will.Our calling is to love one another as He loves us.Rocky.

 

[liquidpele]

Is life’s only purpose life itself?

If that makes sense.

To quote a good book I read once:

When you consider it from a human perspective, and clearly it would be difficult for us to do otherwise, life is an odd thing. It couldn’t wait to get going, but then, having gotten going, it seemed in very little hurry to move on.

Consider the lichen. Lichens are just about the hardest visible organisms on Earth, but among the least ambitious. They will grow happily enough in a sunny churchyard, but they particularly thrive in environments where no other organism would go - on blowy mountaintops and artic wastes, wherever there is little but rock and rain and cold, and almost no competition.

Like most things that thrive in harsh environments, lichens are slow-growing. It make take a lichen more than half a century to attain the dimensions of a shirt button (depending on the species of course). Those the size of dinner plates, are likely to be hundreds if not thousands of years old. It would be hard to imagine a less fulfilling existence. They simply exist, testifying to the moving fact that life at its simplest level occurs, apparently, just for it’s own sake.

It is easy to overlook this thought that life just is. As humans, we are inclined to feel that life must have a point. We have plans and aspirations and desires. We want to take constant advantage of all the intoxicating existence we’ve been endowed with. But what’s life to a lichen? Yet is impulse to exist, to be, is every bit as strong as ours - arguable even stronger. If I were told that I had to spend decades being a furry growth on a rock in the woods, I believe I would lose the will to go on. Lichens don’t. Like virtually all living things, they will suffer any hardship, endure any insult, for a moment’s additional existence. Life, in short, just wants to be. But - and here’s an interesting point - for the most part, it doesn’t seem to want to be much.

 

[Whdevo]

Is life’s only purpose life itself?

If that makes sense.

I seem to remember, from my Catechism at primary school, that the answer to “Why did God make you?” is: “God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him …”, and, if one accepts this premise, then “life” is certainly not “life’s only puprpose”, but, rather, the idea is to make as much as possible of this “life”, because, in doing this in accordance with God’s “rules” (as delineated in the Holy Bible) one best “serves” God.

At least, so I think …

Best wishes

William.

 

[Convert66]

Men are not lichens. Men want to be gods, immortals, see the universe, be emperors, great lovers, and rock stars; that is, transcend their mere biological imperatives and limitations. Is is not enough for us to simply exist like it is for a lichen. Lichens do not suffer identity crises. They rarely, that I know of, commit suicide over their lot in life or listen to lectures from other lichens about the meaning of life. Lichens never fall on the grenade for their fellow lichens, nor do they intervene in the soil to prevent new lichens from being produced nor aspire to be biology professors. They don’t care. Humans do.

That we have transcended the mere biological impulse to live is evident because we are talking about its meaning. Lichens do not discuss their own meaning.

All my best . . .

 

[tonyrey]

But I do know that I’m capable of enjoying life by finding my own meaning without knowing.

In other words you believe the purpose of your life is to enjoy life by finding your own meaning. I agree with you if you include helping others to enjoy life and respecting their conclusions about its meaning. I believe that is the purpose of everyone’s life!

 

[liquidpele]

Men are not lichens. Men want to be gods, immortals, see the universe, be emperors, great lovers, and rock stars; that is, transcend their mere biological imperatives and limitations. Is is not enough for us to simply exist like it is for a lichen. Lichens do not suffer identity crises. They rarely, that I know of, commit suicide over their lot in life or listen to lectures from other lichens about the meaning of life. Lichens never fall on the grenade for their fellow lichens, nor do they intervene in the soil to prevent new lichens from being produced nor aspire to be biology professors. They don’t care. Humans do.

That we have transcended the mere biological impulse to live is evident because we are talking about its meaning. Lichens do not discuss their own meaning.

All my best . . .

“Want” is a whole different world than “is” though. 99.999% of life that has existed has been more like a lichen than like us. Life, for the most part, doesn’t seem to want to be much. The point is that if you look at life as a whole, and include ourselves in that whole instead of some special breed that gets to live forever after death like we wish, than even with all our abilities we are still apart of the same “purpose” if you want to call it that. As another poster pointed out, the only real difference between us and what has come before is our ability to be concious and thus imagine/label purpose beyond survival. That said, lichens will likely be around long after we are extinct…

 

[Convert66]

“Want” is a whole different world than “is” though.

You are right about that. Still, it remains that as the world is . . . men, and not lichens “want” the things I spoke about. Lichens want nothing.

99.999% of life that has existed has been more like a lichen than like us.

Which simply ups the incredible odds against us wanting anything. Yet, we do.

Life, for the most part, doesn’t seem to want to be much.

Speak for yourself.

The point is that if you look at life as a whole, and include ourselves in that whole instead of some special breed that gets to live forever after death like we wish, than even with all our abilities we are still apart of the same “purpose” if you want to call it that.

And the point is, if you look at life as a whole, and include ourselves in that whole, it makes it even more remarkable that we are like men instead of lichens.

As another poster pointed out, the only real difference between us and what has come before is our ability to be concious and thus imagine/label purpose beyond survival.

Yes, evolution is quite a remarkable thing.

That said, lichens will likely be around long after we are extinct…

And then we won’t care, like the lichens don’t care now.

All my best . . .

 

[Benadam]

To believe in a 'Maker" is to believe there is a reason for making… So, my purpose is to fulfill the reason I was made.

 

[liquidpele]

And the point is, if you look at life as a whole, and include ourselves in that whole, it makes it even more remarkable that we are like men instead of lichens.

What an odd thing to say. Considering we are the first species to have the ability to ponder the topic, is it any wonder that we don’t see it in other species? Life itself is remarkable… I can’t see by echo location like a bat, I can’t smell like a dog, I can’t go long periods without drinking like a camel, I can’t swim like a dolphin, I can’t see as well as a cat, I can’t re-grow teeth like a shark, I’ll die before a tortoise and way way way way way before a sequoya, and of course, I’m not as robust as a lichen.

We’re indeed remarkable, but so are so many other things.

 

[Convert66]

Considering we are the first species to have the ability to ponder the topic, is it any wonder that we don’t see it in other species?

A Wonder, indeed! I am far more impressed than you are, apparently, in that irreducibly complex mathematical structures developed through natural selection to the point where we are conversing about them by means of a series of mathematical structures designed by mankind. That is wonderful, as in, full of wonder.

Life itself is remarkable… I can’t see by echo location like a bat, I can’t smell like a dog, I can’t go long periods without drinking like a camel, I can’t swim like a dolphin, I can’t see as well as a cat, I can’t re-grow teeth like a shark, I’ll die before a tortoise and way way way way way before a sequoya, and of course, I’m not as robust as a lichen.

We’re indeed remarkable, but so are so many other things.

I agree that life is remarkable. I would say it is miraculous. All of it. What I wouldn’t say is that composing and performing Rachmaninoff’s 3rd is comparable to living a really, really, really long time re-growing teeth, seeing by echo location or growing on a rock. They are of an entirely different order. Maybe that’s just me, though. I never wanted to be an X-man.

All my best . . .

 

[liquidpele]

Maybe that’s just me, though. I never wanted to be an X-man.

All my best . . .

Liar!

 

[Oreoracle]

In other words you believe the purpose of your life is to enjoy life by finding your own meaning. I agree with you if you include helping others to enjoy life and respecting their conclusions about its meaning.

Absolutely.

(You gotta love short posts like these, ya know?)

 

[tonyrey]

In other words you believe the purpose of your life is to enjoy life by finding your own meaning. I agree with you if you include helping others to enjoy life and respecting their conclusions about its meaning.

             Absolutely.

(You gotta love short posts like these, ya know?)

But then the question arises as to whether that is the purpose of everyone’s life… or is it just an arbitrary decision?

 

[Oreoracle]

But then the question arises as to whether that is the purpose of everyone’s life… or is it just an arbitrary decision?

It is an arbitrary decision made by myself. Whether or not we were created to make others happier is irrelevant…it is the meaning that I’ve found. But you’re a Christian, so you would surely say that your meaning is to fulfill your purpose that was assigned by God. Isn’t obeying God’s will and fulfilling his purpose just another arbitrary goal? Isn’t it you, complete with your emotional biases and intellectual limitations, who ultimately considers it a worthy task (indeed, it is you, a mere human, complete with these ineptitudes, who considers God a worthy leader/lord)? It is all arbitrary, from what I see.

 

[tonyrey]

It is an arbitrary decision made by myself.

What enables you to make this decision for yourself?

 

[Oreoracle]

Oreoracle;5585665:

But you don’t believe in making others unhappy unnecessarily? If not why not?

I wish to make others happy because I notice that my actions and theirs are aimed toward happiness. Why is this important? Well, we’re social animals, so it only makes sense that we would be concerned about others. It’s best for the species.

My meaning is to fulfill the purposes for which God exists…

In order for God to exist for a purpose, he would have to have been assigned the purpose by his own creator. But God, by definition, doesn’t have a creator. He exists for no reason, since their would have been nothing before him to offer any reason.

No. It is a goal which is implicit in our nature as creative, rational beings with a capacity for love and friendship.

And why, exactly, should I respect nature? People seem to think I’m joking when I ask this, but I’m completely serious. What’s the objective reason to respect nature?

It is inevitably arbitrary from your point of view because you believe everything is ultimately irrational and purposeless. You could not reach any other conclusion.

This absurd notion is reminiscient of a child who doesn’t enjoy the taste of broccoli and claims that there is no way his parents could enjoy broccoli because of his own lack of enjoyment. You must think that I’m pretending that my position is rational and meaningful just to trick you. You, like this child, need to grow up and learn that other people have different tastes. You also need to realize that we are all ultimately responsible for finding our own meanings. No one believes that there is no meaning–some claim to, but everyone feels a certain way about an issue they are exposed to.

 

[wanstronian]

Like you I have my limitations but I base my decision on the belief that rational, creative, purposeful activity is inadequately explained by irrational, purposeless processes and is best explained by a rational, purposeful Creator who deserves our love and allegiance because we owe everything we are and possess to Him.

But how is it explained? It’s all very well saying, “blah blah irrational processes blah blah so there must have been a rational Creator…” but where did he come from? If he had to give us rationality, who gave it to him? And if nobody had to give it to him, why did anybody have to give it to us?

Saying, “God did it” doesn’t answer anything, it’s just another way of saying, “I can’t imagine how I came to be here, functional, conscious and rational.” How did God do it? Why did he do it? He’s omnipotent, he can do anything, why bother making us? And what’s he been up to for the last 15 billion years?

Unless we can answer at least some of these questions, then God is not an answer, he’s just a different form of the question.

By the way, how does the fact that the processes by which we evolved are, strictly speaking, irrational and purposeless, have any bearing on our rationality? We are all, every one of us, more than the sum of our parts. The human brain is incredibly complex and science is only just beginning to figure out its most basic functions. It’s fantastically bad logic to just assume that rationality isn’t inherent. In fact, it’s another aspect of the, “I can’t imagine how it works, so God must have done it” fallacy.

 

[tonyrey]

I wish to make others happy because I notice that my actions and theirs are aimed toward happiness.

The fact that you have a common goal does not necessarily entail a desire to make others happy. Suppose your happiness conflicts with theirs? What do you decide then?

Well, we’re social animals, so it only makes sense that we would be concerned about others. It’s best for the species.

Why should you be concerned about the species rather than individuals? Would you sacrifice individuals for the sake of the species? Do the interests of the individuals always correspond to the interests of the species? Would you put the interests of the species before your own interests?

In order for God to exist for a purpose, he would have to have been assigned the purpose by his own creator. But God, by definition, doesn’t have a creator.

God does not have to be assigned a purpose. He is by definition purposeful because He is the Creator and creativity implies purposeful activity.

He exists for no reason, since there would have been nothing before him to offer any reason.

God does not need a reason to exist because He is, i.e. He exists necessarily.

It is a goal which is implicit in our nature as creative, rational beings with a capacity for love and friendship.
And why, exactly, should I respect nature? People seem to think I’m joking when I ask this, but I’m completely serious. What’s the objective reason to respect nature?

You have already stated “we’re social animals, so it only makes sense that we would be concerned about others”.

It is inevitably arbitrary from your point of view because you believe everything is ultimately irrational and purposeless. You could not reach any other conclusion.
This absurd notion is reminiscient of a child who doesn’t enjoy the taste of broccoli and claims that there is no way his parents could enjoy broccoli because of his own lack of enjoyment.

It is not a question of enjoyment but of belief. Do you equate the two?

You must think that I’m pretending that my position is rational and meaningful just to trick you. You, like this child, need to grow up and learn that other people have different tastes.

Your presumption is totally false and infantile. Why on earth would I think you are trying to trick me? You, like this child, need to grow up and learn that other people have different ideas to the ones you think they have…
I know you believe your position is rational and meaningful because you are giving reasons why you think I am mistaken. I am simply pointing out that if our existence is ultimately irrational and purposeless our decisions about what purposes to choose must be arbitrary.

You also need to realize that we are all ultimately responsible for finding our own meanings.

Once again you are making a false presumption. You need to realize that I believe we are all ultimately responsible for finding our own meanings - precisely because that is why we were created.

No one believes that there is no meaning–some claim to, but everyone feels a certain way about an issue they are exposed to.

Beliefs about meaning are not only the result of feelings but also of insight. Or are you differentiating subjective and objective meaning? Perhaps imposing meaning on that which is in reality meaningless?