Pursuing a Catholic Girl

[Mountainpines]

Hey all, I would really appreciate informed (name removed by moderator)ut on a question I have about differences in faith between myself and the girl I am dating. She is a strong Catholic and I am Presbyterian (PCA). I grew up best friends with a guy from a strong Catholic family and so am not under any illusions that Catholics are not christians or anything else that protestants can often stereotype catholics to be. I see that just as in any denomination, there are those who practice tradition, and those that practice the faith. So there are people in my own church who are going through the motions and have not given themselves to God through faith in Jesus Christ, and those who have, and I believe this is most likely the case in Catholicism. Anyway, this girl is incredible, very smart, fun loving, and a joy to be around as her love for Jesus seems to shine in every area of her life. I want to grow in my respect and understanding of the Catholic faith because it is a huge part of her life, and I see faith as the central and most integral part of any being, so I just want to understand it better.

I have been reading up on basic Catholic beliefs, but I was wondering if anyone could point out areas in which the Catholic beliefs and my own Presbyterian (PCA) beliefs would differ. Any (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated.

I am trusting that God is all powerful and all good, so I am in her life for a reason and she is in mine, and if this relationship is going to progress and grow towards something, then God will certainly move my heart and hers in respect to our denominations etc.

Thanks for taking the time to read/post/etc!

 

[Winter_Warlock_1]

Pines,

I hope things work out for you both. I am not too sure of the Presbyterian faith, even though I was told before that Presbyterian is just like being Catholic – without the guilt .The easiest thing to do would be to go to a few or several Catholic masses and see if there is truly any real difference. Granted a Catholic mass may have you kneel at different times than a Presbyterian but there is nothing wrong with the slight differences, we all worship God and believe that Jesus is His Son.

Trust in God and I am sure that He will reveal the path you should take.

Winter.

 

[pensmama87]

Dr. Scott Hahn is a former Presbyterian who converted to Catholicism. He is very knowledgeable about both traditions, and discusses some of them in his Rome Sweet Home. Obviously he has opinions on which side is right , but you might find it helpful. I don’t remember if he was PCA or part of another Presbyterian community.

I see that just as in any denomination, there are those who practice tradition, and those that practice the faith

To be a good Catholic, one does both. Just one is not possible.

One small quibble: properly speaking, Catholics don’t consider ourselves a “denomination.” I know what you meant, but Catholics claim to be pre-denominational (so do the Orthodox). It’s not huge, but it does speak to some of our differences in belief and practice.

 

[Winter_Warlock_1]

Also a quick search for the differences:

Government:
Catholic government is a hierarchy, flowing from the Pope down to the cardinals and the archbishops and the priests. Presbyterian government is by the local elders. There is a board of elders in each church that makes decisions together for that congregation, even ruling against the pastor if they feel inclined to do so.

Salvation:
Catholic teaching is that salvation can be gained and lost and regained again. Most Catholics believe this occurs because of works or the lack thereof. I am not sure what the official line is. Presbyterians believe in eternal security of the believer. Once you are a Christian, you cannot lose that gift from God by bad works on your part. Presbyterians are of the Calvinist branch of Protestantism.

Worship:
Catholic worship services are full of pomp and circumstance, with ornate gilded sanctuaries commonplace, colorful statues of saints here and there, incense censors. Presbyterian worship services are much more reserved. Casual would be an overstatement, but maybe business-like would be a good word. Orderly too. The pastor may wear a long black robe or just a business suit. No incense. No statues. No pomp and circumstance.

Marriage and family:
Catholic clergy may not marry nor raise a family. Catholic members are not allowed to exercise any type of birth control except the rhythm method. Presbyterians ministers may marry and have a family, and are in fact encouraged to do so. Presbyterian families may practice any type of birth control except abortion. Some liberal branches of Presbyterians may allow abortion too.

May God bless and keep you.

Winter

 

[Estevao]

Well going on what I’ve heard about reformed theology from an apologist of this tradition, the major difference would be Sola Scriptura, i.e. the Bible is the sufficient rule of faith and the final authority, tradition and church might be important, but they are subservient to scripture. This is fundamental to protestant theology. Catholics do believe that scripture is God-breathed and inerrant, but they don’t believe that it is the sufficient rule of faith nor the final authority superior to the Church or tradition.

This might lead into the authority of the Church and Tradition. Catholics believe that the three pillars of the Catholic Church’s authority are the Magisterium (i.e. the teaching arm of the Church), Sacred Tradition and Sacred scripture. They interact and interpret one another and illumine the Catholics faith (look at the Catechism for a better statement of this). Catholics also believe that the Pope is the vicar (i.e. representative) of Christ on earth, the successor of Peter (Matthew 16:18-19), head of the Church on earth, and when he teaches something on faith or morals in union with the bishops, either at definitively proposed for belief, or at a council of the bishops, or “ex cathedra”, he is protected from teaching error by the holy spirit (Papal Infallibility). Catholics also believe in apostolic succession, i.e. that the Church is led by bishops who are successors of the Apostles.

This leads into the seven sacraments, the means of God’s grace in which Catholics believe: Baptism, Confession, Eucharist, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, Last Rites. We believe that these are ex opere operato (from the work worked), i.e. that they are effective despite the sinfulness of their administrators. The two most interesting ones would be Eucharist, which we believe is the literal body and blood soul and Divinity of Christ under the appearances of bread and wine, and confession, whereby our sins are actually forgiven by Christ through oral confession (in private) of sins to a priest acting in the person of Christ.

The Catholic veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary would also come up, Catholics believe many things about Mary which protestants would reject, that she was conceived without sin (the immaculate conception), that she was perpetually virgin, that she intercedes for us in heaven (along with the saints), that she was assumed body and soul into heaven upon her death (the assumption), and that she is the queen of heaven (Just as Jesus is the king, the queen mother in the Old Testament was called the queen and was highly revered). Of course Catholic do not worship her as God, nor do we believe that these things come from her own merits but simply because her will was so closely conformed to that of Christ, so we just highly revere her as instrumental in God’s plan of salvation. This is a very ancient tradition by the way, going back to the earliest centuries of Church worship.

Catholic Theology would also reject each of the 5-points of Calvinism, a.k.a. TULIP. So would a lot of Protestants, but to my understanding the PCA is a rather conservative branch of Presbyterianism:

Total Depravity - Catholics believe that our will is wounded but still free
Unconditional Election - Catholics believe in free will even in matters of faith
Limited Atonement - Catholics believe that Christ died for all, even those would would reject him.
Irresistible Grace - Catholics believe that you can reject God’s grace
Perseverance of the Saints - Catholics believe that you can fall away from being in a state of Grace through mortal sin

More about this:
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TULIP.htm

Two blogs you might like from former PCA ministers are these:

calvin2catholic.com/
creedcodecult.com/

May God bless you on your relationship and journey!

 

[pianistclare]

Also a quick search for the differences:

Government:
Catholic government is a hierarchy, flowing from the Pope down to the cardinals and the archbishops and the priests. Presbyterian government is by the local elders. There is a board of elders in each church that makes decisions together for that congregation, even ruling against the pastor if they feel inclined to do so.

Salvation:
Catholic teaching is that salvation can be gained and lost and regained again. Most Catholics believe this occurs because of works or the lack thereof. I am not sure what the official line is. Presbyterians believe in eternal security of the believer. Once you are a Christian, you cannot lose that gift from God by bad works on your part. Presbyterians are of the Calvinist branch of Protestantism.

**Worship:
Catholic worship services are full of pomp and circumstance, with ornate gilded sanctuaries commonplace, colorful statues of saints here and there, incense censors. Presbyterian worship services are much more reserved. Casual would be an overstatement, but maybe business-like would be a good word. Orderly too. The pastor may wear a long black robe or just a business suit. No incense. No statues. No pomp and circumstance. **

Marriage and family:
Catholic clergy may not marry nor raise a family. Catholic members are not allowed to exercise any type of birth control except the rhythm method. Presbyterians ministers may marry and have a family, and are in fact encouraged to do so. Presbyterian families may practice any type of birth control except abortion. Some liberal branches of Presbyterians may allow abortion too.

May God bless and keep you.

Winter

I spit out my coffee reading that, LOL.
I think if you visited most mainstream Catholic parishes, you’ll find statues, candles, nice vestments, lovely Tabernacle, etc. But calling our liturgical practices “pomp and circumstance” is a bit much. Where did you get that list?

 

[Allegra]

Dr. Scott Hahn is a former Presbyterian who converted to Catholicism. He is very knowledgeable about both traditions, and discusses some of them in his Rome Sweet Home. Obviously he has opinions on which side is right , but you might find it helpful. I don’t remember if he was PCA or part of another Presbyterian community.

To be a good Catholic, one does both. Just one is not possible.

One small quibble: properly speaking, Catholics don’t consider ourselves a “denomination.” I know what you meant, but Catholics claim to be pre-denominational (so do the Orthodox). It’s not huge, but it does speak to some of our differences in belief and practice.

This was the first thing I thought of as well. I love listening to Scott on the radio and I think he’s very respectful and attempts to be truthful about the teachings of his former faith. I don’t know anything about Presbyterianism personally, except that when I went on a high school field trip to different religous sites around the area, we visited a presbyterian youth minister and what he had to say effectively turned me off of Christianity in general. (Fortunately not permenantly!)