Pursuing Sanctity

[PursueSanctity]

I took this name to post here because it’s what I want to be about now. I found that if I say to someone: I want to go to heaven, they say, “I do, too!” But if I say I want to be a saint, they get offended or uncomfortable or sometimes hostile and say, “Well, you’re no Mother Theresa!”

No, sadly, I am not. So do I give up even trying? I am hoping to find some others who will say “outloud” that they want to be saints. I thought it would help to have companions on the journey sharing their insights or things they read that helped.

I thought to start, maybe I could just find one thing to make better, like a thing to work on every month. I thought Advent would be a good time to make the commitment and I thought this forum might have a few people who would like to try.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

There are two possible reasons why people have this negative reaction:

1. Because you haven’t been really saintly.
2. The word ‘saintly’ is already a loaded image.

#2 is usually chalked up to a bad mix of both the excessive glorification by religious followed by further distortions of secular media.

 

[Shin]

I am hoping to find some others who will say “outloud” that they want to be saints. I thought it would help to have companions on the journey sharing their insights or things they read that helped.

I thought to start, maybe I could just find one thing to make better, like a thing to work on every month. I thought Advent would be a good time to make the commitment and I thought this forum might have a few people who would like to try.

You’ve made a great beginning with this!

Everything begins with prayer! And it is always very important to have some exterior actions or deeds to accompany it. Perhaps a small prayer every morning or morning and evening and as you think of it for this intention? Along with some others tied to it?

And then some small mortifications to help give these prayers strength? Some greater acts of virtue in your everyday habits? Some thoughts!

 

[martinah]

I took this name to post here because it’s what I want to be about now. I found that if I say to someone: I want to go to heaven, they say, “I do, too!” But if I say I want to be a saint, they get offended or uncomfortable or sometimes hostile and say, “Well, you’re no Mother Theresa!”

No, sadly, I am not. So do I give up even trying? I am hoping to find some others who will say “outloud” that they want to be saints. I thought it would help to have companions on the journey sharing their insights or things they read that helped.

I thought to start, maybe I could just find one thing to make better, like a thing to work on every month. I thought Advent would be a good time to make the commitment and I thought this forum might have a few people who would like to try.

I am so glad someone made a post about this. At the beginning of this month, this very idea came to my mind, in a very serious way, and my first thoughts were I should post that on CAF. But I didn’t because….well, I talked myself out of it. I have never seriously thought about being a saint; the idea has always been met with my derision. However, out of the blue, it just occurred to me: I want to be a saint. Its a bold statement and you really can’t take it back once you’ve made it because, as someone rightfully pointed out, its LOADED. But you know, nobody is SAINTLY until they ARE a saint. I mean, look at some of the stories of the saints; sinners and criminals are amongst them, some more serious than others. None of them started out as people to emulate or admire, but it is upon reflection of their whole lives, not just where they started but where they ended, that matters. It was their journeys that made them saints, not some intractable, unattainable quality that only they were born with. My view on this is that none were born saints, a few lived entirely saintly lives, but all died saints. So there is reason to hope.

 

[TiggerS]

Pope Benedict pointed out recently that we should all aspire to sanctity and one of the reasons he advocates even ordinary day to day lay people (as it were) have a spiritual director. What The Church needs are more saints, not necessarily only those canonized - many are our great saints indeed we will discover in Heaven that were never canonized.

Jesus said “do not let your piety show” and it has been pointed out by St Augustine :
“Humility is the foundation of all the other virtues hence, in the soul in which this virtue does not exist there cannot be any other virtue except in mere appearance.”

Some can appear very holy who may not be holy at all - and then some who appear as the most orindary of persons can be very holy and great saints (as with St Therese of Lisieux - even the nuns in her own very small monastery thought she was a good nun but nothing special).

Some may think that aspiring to holiness or sanctity may in fact be an aspiration to some sort of ‘fame’ and sometimes this can be so - not necessarily always however.

Finally, if I am going to be moved by the opinions of those around me, then I think I am light a windmill that will shift this way or that in the slightest breeze.

 

[PursueSanctity]

I am so glad someone made a post about this. At the beginning of this month, this very idea came to my mind, in a very serious way, and my first thoughts were I should post that on CAF. But I didn’t because….well, I talked myself out of it. I have never seriously thought about being a saint; the idea has always been met with my derision. However, out of the blue, it just occurred to me: I want to be a saint. Its a bold statement and you really can’t take it back once you’ve made it because, as someone rightfully pointed out, its LOADED. But you know, nobody is SAINTLY until they ARE a saint. I mean, look at some of the stories of the saints; sinners and criminals are amongst them, some more serious than others. None of them started out as people to emulate or admire, but it is upon reflection of their whole lives, not just where they started but where they ended, that matters. It was their journeys that made them saints, not some intractable, unattainable quality that only they were born with. My view on this is that none were born saints, a few lived entirely saintly lives, but all died saints. So there is reason to hope.

It sounds like we had similar experiences. And you can’ take it back at all, I agree. I guess because now we know something about ourselves. And you are right that no one is very saintly when they start out and I wonder if acting in a way other people think of as saintly is much of a clue to the state of the soul. I think of what they say about Padre Pio and Theresa of Avila and Mother Teresa and they seemed like in your face sorts of people. I guess the Little Flower was more what we think of as saintly.

I want to do something actively in a quest, I guess you’d call it, to get to the end of the narrow road and fall into Jesus arms. But what? What can we do to get there? Do you feel like it’s a scary prospect, that it would change your life a lot? I do. But then I wonder what could possibly be bad about changing my life a lot!

 

[PursueSanctity]

Pope Benedict pointed out recently that we should all aspire to sanctity and one of the reasons he advocates even ordinary day to day lay people (as it were) have a spiritual director. What The Church needs are more saints, not necessarily only those canonized - many are our great saints indeed we will discover in Heaven that were never canonized.

Jesus said “do not let your piety show” and it has been pointed out by St Augustine :
“Humility is the foundation of all the other virtues hence, in the soul in which this virtue does not exist there cannot be any other virtue except in mere appearance.”

If my own experience trying to find one is common to others, the Church also needs more spiritual directors. I feel a great lack not being able to have this. I thought maybe if I posted a thread on this large forum, a few other people might be interested and we could help each other and find things the Saints have written to help guide us. Mostly, I guess I have to rely on Jesus as my Spiritual Director.

It’s hard to figure out about the humility and at the same time want to be holy. I don’t know how else to say it. I don’t think keeping this sort of thing a secret from the world is such a good idea now, I think people would like to know there are ordinary day to day lay people, as you say, who want to get as close to God as they can. That’s what pursuing sanctity means to me. Just getting close to God.

Finally, if I am going to be moved by the opinions of those around me, then I think I am light a windmill that will shift this way or that in the slightest breeze.

It just made me feel very isolated and lonely. That’s why I did this here. Do you think I am wrong? Maybe it is wrong to look for a bit of company and share the trying to. But then, isn’t that what the Spiritual Director is for? Is it foolish of me to hope that people who want the same things can help each other get to the same place?

 

[PursueSanctity]

I found this in an article about why we should pursue sanctity:

T.S. Eliot defines the Christian life as:** “A condition of complete simplicity/Costing not less than/Everything.”** The price is everything: 100%. A worse martyrdom than the quick noose or stake: the martyrdom of dying daily, dying to all your desires and plans, including your plans about how to become a saint. A blank check to God. Complete submission

I noticed something when I signed on. There were 198 views of this thread. 13 people responded to the poll. (Maybe I didn’t write the options well.) 9 said they wanted to be saints and would work hard to make it happen.

1 person posted to say they want the same thing. Just 1. So, is everyone else already doing this so much it’s not special and hardly seems to merit discussion? That quote is about just being a Christian and I wonder if I’ve just been doing it wrong all my life and most other people already know all about this and are doing fine at it? Or, are other people like me and find it daunting? The price is Everything.

Padre Pio did it right and I thought this prayer of his would be a good one to start all my days with:

** Stay with me, Lord, for it is necessary to have You present so that I do not forget You.
You know how easily I abandon You.

Stay with me, Lord, because I am weak and I need Your strength, that I may not fall so often.

Stay with me, Lord, for You are my life, and without You, I am without fervor.

Stay with me, Lord, for You are my light, and without You, I am in darkness.

Stay with me, Lord, to show me Your will.

Stay with me, Lord, so that I hear Your voice and follow You.

Stay with me, Lord, for I desire to love You very much, and always be in Your company.

Stay with me, Lord, if You wish me to be faithful to You.

Stay with me, Lord, for as poor as my soul is, I want it to be a place of consolation for You, a nest of love.

Stay with me, Jesus, for it is getting late and the day is coming to a close, and life passes; death, judgment, eternity approaches. It is necessary to renew my strength, so that I will not stop along the way and for that, I need You. It is getting late and death approaches, I fear the darkness, the temptations, the dryness, the cross, the sorrows. O how I need You, my Jesus, in this night of exile!

Stay with me tonight, Jesus, in life with all it’s dangers. I need You.

Let me recognize You as Your disciples did at the breaking of the bread, so that the Eucharistic Communion be the Light which disperses the darkness, the force which sustains me, the unique joy of my heart.

Stay with me, Lord, because at the hour of my death, I want to remain united to You, if not by communion, at least by grace and love.

Stay with me, Jesus, I do not ask for divine consolation, because I do not merit it, but the gift of Your Presence, oh yes, I ask this of You!

Stay with me, Lord, for it is You alone I look for, Your Love, Your Grace, Your Will, Your Heart, Your Spirit because I love You and ask no other reward but to love You more and more.

With a firm love, I will love You with all my heart while on earth and continue to love You perfectly during all eternity. Amen**

I’m just not sure I can promise the last thing. That’s what I want, though. That’s what it seems like pursuing sanctity really is. Loving Jesus.

 

[martinah]

It sounds like we had similar experiences. And you can’ take it back at all, I agree. I guess because now we know something about ourselves. And you are right that no one is very saintly when they start out and I wonder if acting in a way other people think of as saintly is much of a clue to the state of the soul. I think of what they say about Padre Pio and Theresa of Avila and Mother Teresa and they seemed like in your face sorts of people. I guess the Little Flower was more what we think of as saintly.

I want to do something actively in a quest, I guess you’d call it, to get to the end of the narrow road and fall into Jesus arms. But what? What can we do to get there? Do you feel like it’s a scary prospect, that it would change your life a lot? I do. But then I wonder what could possibly be bad about changing my life a lot!

Well “acting in a way other people think of as saintly” seems folly; for who amongst us has authority to judge another man’s soul, especially when all we have to go on is how they “seem”? So both judging in that way, and living your life in view of that type of judgement, won’t get you very far.

As for being in peoples face with your holiness, I think that is a matter of perspective. In life, Padre Pio was a pious, but sometimes difficult, person. His “in your face” holiness, came after he died, when it became obvious that his life was used to edify God’s grace to the rest of us. However, since that is what we are all here to do for each other, in reality, there is nothing really exceptional about that. The means through which Padre Pio was used, i.e. his stigmata, was exceptional but he was no more “called” than the rest of us and that is what we are supposed to realize when we read about the saints, IMHO anyway.

Now you want a “quest” or a path to holiness. I think that the answer is to live your life more. Do all the things you normally do, but with the awareness that it is all for God, not you. So, “I wash the dishes and keep a clean and safe home because I love my family, given to me by God”, for example. Or you do your job well because you have skills and talents given to you by God and to give him credit, you should not keep them to yourself but use them to serve others. You know what I mean? I think people who live that way are really holy. Very few are actually or literally called to give up their lives and “go fishing for men” like the original apostles or modern religious. For laypeople, it is in, as St. Francis said, living your life in accordance to your calling and in a way that pleases God, that leads one to be holy.

However, if you find or come up with a “quest”, please keep me posted!

Take care and God Bless,
Martina

 

[fred_conty]

Could be that “saints think they are sinners, and sinners think they are saints”.

Just a tiny thought.

 

[louisak]

I was so glad to see this poll. This has been on my mind a lot the last couple of days. I keep thinking about how sad it is that so many people gives themselves up to pride, greed, lust, etc. and so few people hunger after holiness. Yet, it is really the only thing that matters in the final analysis. But for many people, even well-intentioned people, that is a difficult concept to grasp.

I have this wonderful quote from Peguy in my forum signature - when I first encountered that quote I couldn’t accept it, it actually made me rather upset. But that was because I was hurting over a lot of circumstances in my life, serious things, not trivial stuff. I felt that what Peguy was saying was unfair, in that it discounted the reality of suffering and cruelty. But with the passage of time I was able to grasp the truth of what he was saying. Now I feel that becoming a saint is really the only thing worthwhile.

Yes, there are other things that could be counted as tragedies - great physical or emotional suffering for whatever reason - but for someone who attains holiness, they actually become blessings; because those sufferings become the rungs by which we ascend to the spiritual heights.

 

[InLight247]

I am hoping to find some others who will say “outloud” that they want to be saints. I thought it would help to have companions on the journey sharing their insights or things they read that helped.

Whether we respond to God’s calling or not, we are all called to be saints. Reaching sanctity is a life time process. Having a holy priest as one’s spiritual director helps tremendously. But one can start with a good confessor if a SD cannot be found. Reading saints’ teachings and engaging in frequent confessions are good starts. Stay recollected and develop a good prayer life. Daily Mass and holy hour are very helpful if time allows. When we have a close relationship with God, the Holy Spirit will teach us himself. The Holy Spirit convicts our hearts and helps us gain true self-knowledge. Honest self-knowledge is the basic step of working toward holiness. But by all means, look for a good spiritual director if possible.

 

[Sarcelle]

My two cents here.

This is one lesson I am learning right now and I admit I am a slow learner.

This lesson consists of saying everyday as a matter of prayer,

“Your will not mine be done.”

 

[TiggerS]

Quoting Pursue Sanctity:

If my own experience trying to find one is common to others, the Church also needs more spiritual directors. I feel a great lack not being able to have this. I thought maybe if I posted a thread on this large forum, a few other people might be interested and we could help each other and find things the Saints have written to help guide us. Mostly, I guess I have to rely on Jesus as my Spiritual Director.

I went 20 years without being able to find someone suitable to direct me - I never gave up praying however for a good spiritual director. I have now had a director for the past 7 or 8 years probably.
I think it was St Teresa of Avila who said that if one cannot find a good director, to put oneself confidently in The Lord’s Hands. Trust and confidence in The Lord never goes amiss…never!

It’s hard to figure out about the humility and at the same time want to be holy. I don’t know how else to say it. I don’t think keeping this sort of thing a secret from the world is such a good idea now, I think people would like to know there are ordinary day to day lay people, as you say, who want to get as close to God as they can. That’s what pursuing sanctity means to me. Just getting close to God.

To my mind there is humility and an associated definition and one can strive to live out the various definitions; however, only The Lord can grant humility in truth. Humility in truth can be painful. It is accurate self knowledge and also a sort of dark or remote apprehension of the Glory of God and the great abyss inbetween creature and Creator - an abyss that only God can bridge.

It just made me feel very isolated and lonely. That’s why I did this here. Do you think I am wrong? Maybe it is wrong to look for a bit of company and share the trying to. But then, isn’t that what the Spiritual Director is for? Is it foolish of me to hope that people who want the same things can help each other get to the same place

Personally, I think that these forums are wonderful and can do much good. I certainly have changed and grown in many ways due to Catholic discussion sites. On the other hand they can be destructive. It is wisdom and prudence that leads us into situations with eyes wide open as it were.
I dont think it is foolish at all to hope that the members in these forums can help one along the spiritual way - they certainly can indeed. But it is well to remember what the Psalm says “put not your trust in Princes” and to me this means even ‘the princes of men’ i.e. the very best of persons. Unconditional trust is for The Lord alone and such unconditional trust in Him will never lead one astray…never!
This does not mean that one does not trust others, but that that trust is conditional, always conditional. Trust to me is something earned and trust in another can be lost and once lost it may be difficult to find it again. Not impossible, just difficult. However, we can trust in The Lord absolutely unconditionally and will never be led astray.

Do you make time in your day for prayer, spiritual reading including Scripture (or Lectio Divina). The essence of it all probably is that your desire for holiness is in itself a great Grace and indication that The Holy Spirit is at work in you.
I am reading for the third time Pope Benedict’s “Jesus of Nazareth”. This third read has been a real blessing. The first two reads were a labor for me and any insight and understanding was very sporadic. This read, things are really coming together for me. I had quite a time span between reads.

 

[PursueSanctity]

Could be that “saints think they are sinners, and sinners think they are saints”.

Just a tiny thought.

Sir, if saints think they are sinners I can be canonized at any moment. Unfortunately, I think some of us sinners are just acutely aware of our failure.

 

[PursueSanctity]

But with the passage of time I was able to grasp the truth of what he was saying. Now I feel that becoming a saint is really the only thing worthwhile.

Yes. Do you think it’s true that this is the only reason God created the Universe at all? Because I do. It’s the only reason we are here.

 

[Pitcharan]

I took this name to post here because it’s what I want to be about now. I found that if I say to someone: I want to go to heaven, they say, “I do, too!” But if I say I want to be a saint, they get offended or uncomfortable or sometimes hostile and say, “Well, you’re no Mother Theresa!”

No, sadly, I am not. So do I give up even trying? I am hoping to find some others who will say “outloud” that they want to be saints. I thought it would help to have companions on the journey sharing their insights or things they read that helped.

I thought to start, maybe I could just find one thing to make better, like a thing to work on every month. I thought Advent would be a good time to make the commitment and I thought this forum might have a few people who would like to try.

Yes. Do you think it’s true that this is the only reason God created the Universe at all? Because I do. It’s the only reason we are here.

Deification (sanctification or divinisation) is the work of God. and being deified is mankind’s goal irrespective of religions. It is the core of Church’s teaching.

*The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods. *(CCC 460)

 

[PursueSanctity]

Stay recollected… .

Thank you for your kind post. Would you say more about this, please?

 

[PursueSanctity]

For laypeople, it is in, as St. Francis said, living your life in accordance to your calling and in a way that pleases God, that leads one to be holy.

But I keep messing it up. I guess I’m saying that I take very much to heart Jesus’ admonition that none are good. Anything good that I do is just not coming from me. I need more God and less me.

However, if you find or come up with a “quest”, please keep me posted!

Take care and God Bless,
Martina

I have one in mind. I need to search the internet for it. I’ll post it here when I have worked up the nerve to surrender.

 

[PursueSanctity]

Deification (sanctification or divinisation) is the work of God. and being deified is mankind’s goal irrespective of religions. It is the core of Church’s teaching.

The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods. (CCC 460)

This post made me feel quite good. You realize then, that what I am actually saying is: I want to become God. Cloud of Unknowing says “oned with God.”

Someone looked askance at me one day when I was trying to explain: I don’t feel a need for myself anymore. I don’t need to cross over and still be myself. I believe they thought I might need some therapy. Why does it sound like heresy or insanity? Yet, there it is. You put it right here.

That’s what I want to read about: The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods… Who writes about that? Do you know?