Pushed to the SSPX

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ProVobis said:
Is it real charity to tell someone with sensitivities against such things to continue to live with these things? I don’t think we need more Hell on earth.
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Hell on earth is caused by deviations from what Jesus established. Ultra-conservatism is just a different brand of Protestantism.

Why not work for change within the one true Church? This can be done without a certain archbishop thumbing his nose at a direct order given by the Holy Father.
 
eichenb2 said:
Maybe the Catholic Church is mostly apostate now. My experience is that most self-identifying Catholic (even Priests), on one level or another, deny the Catholic faith. Most simply follow a set of rituals that give them an emotional lift; without any recourse to the Truth of the matter. The new mass exemplifies this.
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When the Church was fighting Arianism, it was true that most of the Church membership and leadership were subscribing to heresy. That doesn’t mean the few followers of truth jumped ship!

So that statement doesn’t really hold.
 
surritter said:
When the Church was fighting Arianism, it was true that most of the Church membership and leadership were subscribing to heresy. That doesn’t mean the few followers of truth jumped ship!

So that statement doesn’t really hold.
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that is why i stated it with the word “mostly”.
 
surritter said:
Hell on earth is caused by deviations from what Jesus established. Ultra-conservatism is just a different brand of Protestantism.

Why not work for change within the one true Church? This can be done without a certain archbishop thumbing his nose at a direct order given by the Holy Father.
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Rome was clearly intent on allowing the traditional movement to die out. I would not mock Archbishop Lefebvre even if I did not support the SSPX, as he is the only reason (and God) that there is the traditional movement today.
 
PhanxicoXavier said:
Rome was clearly intent on allowing the traditional movement to die out. I would not mock Archbishop Lefebvre even if I did not support the SSPX, as he is the only reason (and God) that there is the traditional movement today.
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Mocking? Did or did not Archbishop Lefebvre ordain four bishops in direct defiance of John Paul’s order?
 
\If I stay at and support the parish at which I find I am at a spiritual disadvantage (see Canon Law I quoted above), this will only encourage the PERCEIVED abnormal behavior, even if it’s entirely within the law. The notion that if 51% feel everything is okay makes it okay, I certainly don’t want to make it 52%\

**If its within the law, it is by definition it is NOT abnormal.

And something merely “perceived” to be abnormal is probably not abnormal. Our perceptions can be mistaken, you know.**
 
\You don’t hear about these types of things happening in traditional settings and it really makes me wonder: who’s really being schismatic?\

**That’s right–you didn’t HEAR these types of things.

They were actually going on in traditional settings, too.

There are other “abuses” (an overused word) going on among traditionalists, but they are of different sorts.**
 
bkovacs said:
And what about the biggest movement of all. Those Roman Rite priests and Bishops who are trying for find all kinds of ways and excuses to stop the progress of the Extra-Ordinary Form and the Reform of the Reform.
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What organization is that?
And you talk about being charitable JR. When they become charitable many traditionalists will become charitable. Were not stupid, like they want us to think!.
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I think you misunderstand the Golden Rule. We are not told, like many think, to do unto others as they do to us. Lack of charity is not justified because someone somewhere else is also uncharitable.
 
bkovacs said:
I will not give into the liturgical changes of the sixties and seventies for the benefit of the liturgical liberals who all but destroyed the rich liturgical traditions of the Roman Catholic Church which I was stripped of.
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As an Orthodox, you have no obligation to “give in” to anything. However, Roman Catholics are in a different situation. There is nothing wrong with preferring one’s own liturgy. We should give up nothing for the benefits of any interest group. However, humble obedience when it is a sacrifice wil always result in us gaining more than we lose.
 
PhanxicoXavier said:
Rome was clearly intent on allowing the traditional movement to die out. I would not mock Archbishop Lefebvre even if I did not support the SSPX, as he is the only reason (and God) that there is the traditional movement today.
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That is a matter of opinion, as all speculative alternative history is. In any case, an immoral ends does not justify a positive ends. The statement did not mock. AB Lefebvre did defy the Holy Father.
 
pnewton said:
What organization is that? I think you misunderstand the Golden Rule. We are not told, like many think, to do unto others as they do to us. Lack of charity is not justified because someone somewhere else is also uncharitable.
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What organization is that?
Don’t insult my intelligence!. You know what I mean. If you don’t your dillusioned.

Lack of charity is not justified because someone somewhere else is also uncharitable
And the majority of Bishops and Priests in the modern day Roman Rite, are uncharitable to traditionalists.
 
bpbasilphx said:
And something merely “perceived” to be abnormal is probably not abnormal. Our perceptions can be mistaken, you know.
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Depends on who’s judging, I guess.

My point is that if something bothers you, what good does it do it for me to tell you “Jesus doesn’t like it.”?? That’s about the bottom line of all this discussion, isn’t it?
 
bkovacs said:
Lack of charity is not justified because someone somewhere else is also uncharitable
And the majority of Bishops and Priests in the modern day Roman Rite, are uncharitable to traditionalists.
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Source? Data? Or is that too an insult to your intelligence to ask that you back such a statement? Maybe I just don’t buy all the sweeping conspiracies and over generalizations that some here live off. I guess I am just too much of a Catholic and a layman to turn in rebellion against the Church.
 
Just a little note re the now two month long on-going talks between Rome & the SSPX:
The members of the SSPX are living within the Vatican & offering their Masses everyday
in St. Peter’s Basilica…I would think that this does sort of say something w/o saying it explicitly…Maybe we ought to just lay-off for a bit & consider that point.
 
HOLYHEARTS said:
Just a little note re the now two month long on-going talks between Rome & the SSPX:
The members of the SSPX are living within the Vatican & offering their Masses everyday
in St. Peter’s Basilica…I would think that this does sort of say something w/o saying it explicitly…Maybe we ought to just lay-off for a bit & consider that point.
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Here is a picture of SSPX seminarians praying in front of the tomb of St. Pius X

http://stas.org/templates/stas/new_album/europetrip/petersbasilica/19c.jpg
 
PhanxicoXavier said:
Here is a picture of SSPX seminarians praying in front of the tomb of St. Pius X
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Photo omitted for space.

And this proves what, exactly?

All sorts of people representing all schools of thought and all faiths–and none–enter St. Peters, many of them to pray.
 
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