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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
If only Catholics could be as concerned with saving souls as saving ‘the planet.’
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JimG
Guest
People of good will may come to different conclusions. If that is the case, and it is, just what actions is the USCCB endorsing? If the actions that it implicitly endorses will hurt the poor, they should not be taken. But the proposal to put the poor first, without saying in what way, leaves us, politically, at a sort of dead end, with the ‘social justice’ arm of the USCCB implicitly endorsing, without actually saying so, actions which may hurt the poor.Exactly
Each of these points is WHERE I think the discussion belongs as it relates to policy, and if we put our heads in the sand or cover our ears and say ‘its not happening, its not happening’ we won’t have a voice at the table. People of good will may come to different conclusions, but WE need to speak for the poor her and around the world and try to ensure that the discussion keeps their needs at the heart.
THEN we need to make personal choices that that reflect this awareness too! Pece
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Don_L
Guest
Good point. I would add to that observation that I wish they would be as concerned with saving innocent life as they are with "saving the planet.
So many "global warming, climate change, new ice age, co2 "is a pollutant, believers, also believe in the Margaret Sanger model of limiting populations. As one told me once, the only problem with the planet is that man is on it. (That’s man as in species and includes both genders)
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4elise
Guest
Is it a moral imperative to care for creation?
If one agrees that climate change is real, and that there are man made contributions that can be addressed, then I believe it is a moral issue - because it is the WHY - that leads us to the WHAT - the Holy Father has said the impact will be greatest on the poor. “The environment is God’s gift to everyone, and in our use of it, we have a responsibility towards the poor, towards future generations and towards humanity as a whole.”
You do not agree MMCC is real, and therefore I agree — your actions / or lack of actions / are in keeping with an appropriate moral response to your belief.
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4elise
Guest
To protect God’s gift of Creation is an action not contrary with saving souls. In fact they go hand in hand.
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4elise
Guest
Since the title of this thread is "Putting Catholic faith into action on climate change’ OBVIOUSLY any model attributable Sanger to limit population is not part of this discussion, since Catholics are pro life.
I find it interesting that in many threads here on CAF when people want to disagree they throw this down as if it were a trump card, to end a discussion. ***“Oh, if only one cared as much about innocent life…” ***but in fact it is caring about innocent life that leads me to be concerned about the issue of climate change, and leads me to make personal changes that I believe can have impact, and to keep the discussion alive among others of faith.
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4elise
Guest
The actions that I have seen endorsed on the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change are:
(I do not see where you are seeing something endorsed either directly or implicitly that may hurt the poor?)
** Reflection and Prayer
** Education
** Stewardship
** Solidarity
- Recycle
- Wash clothes in cold water.
- Use reusable containers and utensils for leftovers
- Fix or replace leaky pipes, heaters, generators, and appliances.
- Consider replacing incandescent light bulbs with more energy efficient
ones. - Buy local.
- Carpool
- Take a walk.
- Eat your vegetables.
- Plant a tree.
- Assess your home energy use and learn how you can
reduce energy costs and benefit the environment, of Energy.
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Barry_Gabriel
Guest
I hate to say it, but they are wrong. Scientific tests show that temperatures are rising on Venus and Mars. Clearly that is not the fault of us Earthicans. Dendrochronology (a real science) also shows, from examining thousand year old bog oak and swamp trees, that we are not, historically speaking, going into a warm phase on Earth, but coming out of a cold phase. I personally believe in science on these matters, not hysteria. Global warming is caused by the sun, not by humans. There’s nothing we can do about it. Besides, living as I do in Canada, I believe all Canadians at least should welcome global warming.
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4elise
Guest
Yet others, i.e. those living on islands in the Pacific are at risk of loosing their homes. It isn’t just about us, the Bishops are calling us to consider the needs of ALL people in this discussion - nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Regional/Karachi/24-Jul-2009/Climate-change-can-displace-millions
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TEPO
Guest
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------These threads have opened my mind up to multitudes of new thought. Stemming from the global warming hype, which stemmed from the ozone hype and whatever came before and between, a new stem has began to sprout for me when I stumbled across in an interesting article in “The New American” magazine which I bought for a dime at my local library bookstore. Thanks Al. The article is called “Tracking your Digital Trail” from the June 8 edition. but the paragraph that catches my attention most goes like this: “Behavioral scientists can predict how people might react to hot-button issues as many as five years down the road and work to change perceptions or reactions.” This type of “molding public opinion”, may be the same as the memories I have had back from third grade where my teachers drilled questions for debate such as: what will we do about ozone depletion?, or what will we do about pollution, and where will we put all our trash, whould we build more landfills? I remember kids saying stuff like no lets send it on a rocket towards the sun to destroy it.
But wasnt that just the seeds being spread for the new global warming catastrophe scenario that was in the works to be laid out a few years later? All in an effort to “get people involved”, in this new morality which only excludes catholic values and installs new earthly morals which make a new world that is much easier to keep in line. maybe could even cause world peace?
But what is Gods will?
Just food for thought maybe for another thread.
But wasnt that just the seeds being spread for the new global warming catastrophe scenario that was in the works to be laid out a few years later? All in an effort to “get people involved”, in this new morality which only excludes catholic values and installs new earthly morals which make a new world that is much easier to keep in line. maybe could even cause world peace?
But what is Gods will?
Just food for thought maybe for another thread.
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TEPO
Guest
By the way I’m TEPO from the “could we be wrong about global warming” thread.
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TEPO
Guest
I do the very best I know how the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what is said against me wont amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference.
-Abraham Lincoln
Here are some of the “Key Principles of Catholic Social Teaching” found at www.osjspm.org
Option for the poor and vulnerable:
Catholic teaching proclaims that a basic moral test
is how our most vulnerable members are faring. In a
society marred by deepening divisions between rich and
poor, our tradition recalls the story of the Last Judgment
(Mt. 25) and instructs us to put the needs of the poor
and vulnerable first.
Stewardship of Creation:
Catholic tradition insists that we show our respect for
the Creator by our stewardship of creation. We are
called to protect people and the planet, living our faith in
relationship with all of God’s creation. This environmental
challenge has fundamental moral and ethical dimensions
which cannot be ignored.
Role of Government:
Because we are social beings, the state is natural to the
person. Therefore, the state has a positive moral function.
It is an instrument to promote human dignity, protect
human rights, and build the common good. Its purpose
is to assist citizens in fulfilling their responsibility to
others in society. Since, in a large and complex society
these responsibilities cannot adequately be carried out
on a one-to-one basis, citizens need the help of government
in fulfilling these responsibilities and promoting the
common good. According to the principle of subsidiarity,
the functions of government should be performed at the
lowest level possible, as long as they can be performed
adequately. If they cannot, then a higher level of
government should intervene to provide help.
-Abraham Lincoln
Here are some of the “Key Principles of Catholic Social Teaching” found at www.osjspm.org
Option for the poor and vulnerable:
Catholic teaching proclaims that a basic moral test
is how our most vulnerable members are faring. In a
society marred by deepening divisions between rich and
poor, our tradition recalls the story of the Last Judgment
(Mt. 25) and instructs us to put the needs of the poor
and vulnerable first.
Stewardship of Creation:
Catholic tradition insists that we show our respect for
the Creator by our stewardship of creation. We are
called to protect people and the planet, living our faith in
relationship with all of God’s creation. This environmental
challenge has fundamental moral and ethical dimensions
which cannot be ignored.
Role of Government:
Because we are social beings, the state is natural to the
person. Therefore, the state has a positive moral function.
It is an instrument to promote human dignity, protect
human rights, and build the common good. Its purpose
is to assist citizens in fulfilling their responsibility to
others in society. Since, in a large and complex society
these responsibilities cannot adequately be carried out
on a one-to-one basis, citizens need the help of government
in fulfilling these responsibilities and promoting the
common good. According to the principle of subsidiarity,
the functions of government should be performed at the
lowest level possible, as long as they can be performed
adequately. If they cannot, then a higher level of
government should intervene to provide help.
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4elise
Guest
Ummmmm… and your position is that concern for God’s creation is not in keeping with Catholic values - or do I detect a note of sarcasm?
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TEPO
Guest
I only mean to say that govornment intervention is not the answer. It is up to the individuals and groups of the world to make the change. Allowing the Federal govornment would eventually prove devestating not only to America but to the world.
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4elise
Guest
I believe that individuals can make a great difference by making changes in how we consume and participate in society. We’ve given up meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, silk, wool, etc… (gone vegan
) to do what we can to reduce our contribution, as we learned about the impact of factory farming on the environment.What action do you see appropriate for individuals and groups?
Why do you think that the Government should not support change?
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TEPO
Guest
First of all, Individuals and groups could create grassroots efforts to change such as buying “green”, or buying alternative fuel cars like we have been. I dont think there is anything un-catholic about this. In fact, I personally would like to see more of this. There is nothing un-catholic about vegetarianism or vegan, as many saints were vegetarian. But when people put environmentalism before catholocism, we’ve got problems. And that’s exactly whats going on in society today. In fact the govornment has already meddled in too far. people are even trying to remove “In God We Trust”, from our money. I’m afraid if we drift too far from our God, he might judge us in a very negative way.I believe that individuals can make a great difference by making changes in how we consume and participate in society. We’ve given up meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, silk, wool, etc… (gone vegan
What action do you see appropriate for individuals and groups?
Why do you think that the Government should not support change?
In conclusion, govornment has no business meddling in these affairs. I have recently discovered that even Catholic Catechism, along with our Catholic social teaching denounces excessive govornment interference much the same.
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TEPO
Guest
I’ve lived near L.A. and yes I have seen smog. From ontop of Palos Verdes the valley has kind of a greenish brown haze layer. Very disgusting. But according to the latest research, it appears that CO2 emissions are not the culprit we once thought. So maybe we should wait a little while longer and find out the real cause of climate change. If there is climate change. Then ask the Government for help. As opposed to giving them authority to make reckless assumptions.
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4elise
Guest
You might be interested in visiting the web site for the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change to read what they suggest for actions
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TEPO
Guest
“As pastors, teachers and citizens, we … seek to contribute to our national dialogue by examining the ethical implications
of climate change.” —U.S. Catholic Bishops
This is the main point that I see on the “Catholic Coalition on Climate Change”. In which I completely agree.
Prayer is also a fundamental way in which we as Catholics can create change.
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TEPO
Guest
I think in today’s world were confronted with an array of issues or problems to address. Environment is obviously one of them along with abortion/murder, war, poverty, addictions, greed, hate, prostitution, pornogropohy and whatever else the devil can muster up. We need catholics to fix all these problems. Prayer works.
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